Would the Draenei Eredar have been better on the horde?

[Notshauna]

It does create a few interesting what-if scenarios though. I could see them having to settle things with the Orcs early, if their ship had landed closer and if there was some greater challenge that they had to band together for. Like, if the ship had crashed in Tanaris, then they would have been stressed for resources and mostly going off of what they already had. Then the Orcs would have been their closest neighbors to the north and their most likely trading partner/gateway to the rest of Kalimdor, unless the Draenei chose to try and deal with Un'Goro crater--more lush, but more treacherous.

edit: I realized that Thunder Bluff would also probably be just as close if not closer, but also Theramore Isle would have been closer then all of them, and a port city to boot. If Theramore wasn't in the picture though its interesting to consider.

Exactly, I'm going to hop off this to tell my scenario. In this scenario Night Elves are in the Horde.

Imagine that instead of landing on an extremely sparsely populated island like how the Draenei did in canon, they landed very close to a Night Elven fort. The early levels would be ones where the Night Elves, while not actively hostile, are very defensive and combative unwilling to either attack the defenseless Draenei nor aid them. So you aid the survivors of the crash, gather what resources you can (sometimes actively sneaking past patrols to steal supplies), unable to communicate with them and explain your presence. Things come to a head when the Draenei have recovered enough that the Night Elves feel threatened, as they ready themselves to attack the Draenei an Orc walks through the ranks as a clear officer, at this moment the Night Elves believe they are going to attack the Burning Legion and the Draenei believe that the Legion has finally caught them. To the surprise of both sides the Orc begins talking to the Draenei, as only an Orcs could possibly know their language so they naturally have to be the ones that introduce them to this world. At this point we can begin the development of trust between these two races, which is only possible because of their intermingled histories.

[Harbour]

Why OP think that Eredar prefer to join Horde if Eredars want to destroy both Alliance and Horde?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Exactly, I'm going to hop off this to tell my scenario. In this scenario Night Elves are in the Horde.

Imagine that instead of landing on an extremely sparsely populated island like how the Draenei did in canon, they landed very close to a Night Elven fort. The early levels would be ones where the Night Elves, while not actively hostile, are very defensive and combative unwilling to either attack the defenseless Draenei nor aid them. So you aid the survivors of the crash, gather what resources you can (sometimes actively sneaking past patrols to steal supplies), unable to communicate with them and explain your presence. Things come to a head when the Draenei have recovered enough that the Night Elves feel threatened, as they ready themselves to attack the Draenei an Orc walks through the ranks as a clear officer, at this moment the Night Elves believe they are going to attack the Burning Legion and the Draenei believe that the Legion has finally caught them. To the surprise of both sides the Orc begins talking to the Draenei, as only an Orcs could possibly know their language so they naturally have to be the ones that introduce them to this world. At this point we can begin the development of trust between these two races, which is only possible because of their intermingled histories.

Draenei aren't going to easily ignore the atrocities the Orcs did to them on Draenor. It's not a wound easily removed. If shit like Rommath being annoyed at the Kirin Tor then the Draenei wouldn't trust the Orcs or be that willing.

[Beloren]

Draenei aren't going to easily ignore the atrocities the Orcs did to them on Draenor. It's not a wound easily removed. If shit like Rommath being annoyed at the Kirin Tor then the Draenei wouldn't trust the Orcs or be that willing.

but Thrall's horde is a new horde, and Thrall's horde show the exact sort of potential the Draenei and Velen in particular saw in the orcs, that made him stay his hand instead of execute them.

remember the Draenei knew the orcs were being used as pawns of the legion even if the orcs did not, and the Draenei are smart enough to know it's the Legion that are the real enemy and that the orcs would be powerful allies against them in this redeemed mode, confirmed to them after they find out about the death of Mannoroth and the orcs fighting the legion. It could have worked.

However the night elves in the horde and on Kalimdor would make them very much the big brother in this relationship and it meshes so well with the Tauren's previous awe of the night elves, the nature affinity etc.

Saying that though, it feels weird to think of the blood elves under the alliance banner.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

but Thrall's horde is a new horde, and Thrall's horde show the exact sort of potential the Draenei and Velen in particular saw in the orcs, that made him stay his hand instead of execute them.

remember the Draenei knew the orcs were being used as pawns of the legion even if the orcs did not, and the Draenei are smart enough to know it's the Legion that are the real enemy and that the orcs would be powerful allies against them in this redeemed mode, confirmed to them after they find out about the death of Mannoroth and the orcs fighting the legion. It could have worked.

However the night elves in the horde and on Kalimdor would make them very much the big brother in this relationship and it meshes so well with the Tauren's previous awe of the night elves, the nature affinity etc.

Saying that though, it feels weird to think of the blood elves under the alliance banner.

The Draenei might of known they were pawns but it doesn't erase the anger the Draenei would have against the Orcs as I said. Atrocities aren't easy to let go of. Doesn't matter if the Horde is Thrall's new one, old hatreds would still exist.

[Notshauna]

Draenei aren't going to easily ignore the atrocities the Orcs did to them on Draenor. It's not a wound easily removed. If shit like Rommath being annoyed at the Kirin Tor then the Draenei wouldn't trust the Orcs or be that willing.

I never said it'd be easy, just interesting. It's far more believable than the Draenei landing on an island that doesn't have any significant Night Elven presence despite the island being extremely close to their capital, proceeding to be able to communicate with a bunch of humans, despite never seeing one before and looking exactly like an Eredar and then being able to join their faction.

When the Draenei arrive there is literally one playable race in the entire game that has came into contact with them before, where as the rest see them as Eredar a sworn enemy. And that's the Orcs, whether or not you agree.

I really have to hammer this home, this is first contact for the Draenei and they look exactly like another race that has came to this planet waging war, it's not going to be easy (well it SHOULDN'T of been easy) no matter how it happens.

[BlakeArt]

Actually, the blood elves are in the horde just to balance cosmetic and the lack of appeal of the horde at this time wich provoked an huge disbalance between factions on servers, so they relooked the draenei (originally the brokens) to be more fashionable for the alliance and that's all, lore has nothing to do in that.

For Blizzard gameplay come before roleplay. And even from a roleplay point of view, Draenei in the horde would have been an abomination (just like the blood elves).

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I never said it'd be easy, just interesting. It's far more believable than the Draenei landing on an island that doesn't have any significant Night Elven presence despite the island being extremely close to their capital, proceeding to be able to communicate with a bunch of humans, despite never seeing one before and looking exactly like an Eredar and then being able to join their faction.

When the Draenei arrive there is literally one playable race in the entire game that has came into contact with them before, where as the rest see them as Eredar a sworn enemy. And that's the Orcs, whether or not you agree.

I really have to hammer this home, this is first contact for the Draenei and they look exactly like another race that has came to this planet waging war, it's not going to be easy (well it SHOULDN'T of been easy) no matter how it happens.

The fact Draenei worship the Light makes a big connection to Humans and Dwarves especially. The Orcs don't have that luxary other then "Oh yeah I know you guys...we kinda massacred you guys."


Unknown race that you have something in common vs. a race you know that also was a pawn of greater forces and massacred you(Doesn't help many of the Orcs went into it willingly).

[Teri]

and on the horde alongside the Blood elves as the allies they were under Illidan in TFT. Things could have been different if they didn't stick to rules like each faction must get a new race or only 2 factions.

Did you play the Draenei Start zone, in particular Bloodmyst isle?

Blood elves certainly are raiding the exodar crash sites and are the enemy, at least in that timeline. (timeline before tempest keep was assaulted by the players)

At that time at least they knew far less about m'uru as well.

Also I never considered the Broken you see in Warcraft 3, as full Draenei, but rather those that stayed behind and didn't flee with the Exodar.
Akama obviously being broken himself, and we see the Ashtongue Faction later in Black Temple.

Now obviously, there were multiple factions of Draenei in Burning Crusade, The sha'tar following A'dal, with subfactions being Aldor(Draenei) and Blood Elf splinter faction Scryers. They held Shattrath from being taken.

However again, Outland is only a mere snapshot of timeline right now, as we see High Priestess Ishanah (leader of Aldor) now as Priest follower and Innkeeper of the Vindicaar.

Velen's Draenei mostly were guided by O'ros during their time on Azeroth, until Rakeesh destroyed it, likely a reason why we don't see the Exodar in flight as it's much bigger then Vindicaar and we know Naaru time/space vessels are guided/controlled by a Naaru inside.

Genedar/Oshu'gun was used to flee Argus, powered by K'ure), but that naaru feel ill after the crash in Nagrand.

So no, Velen was never directly allied with Illidan, we don't know the travel time from outland to Azeroth in space but it wasn't instant like Azeroth>Argus, especially as the ship was Sabotaged by the elves that held it before velen took control of exodar.

[Beloren]

Actually, the blood elves are in the horde just to balance cosmetic and the lack of appeal of the horde at this time wich provoked an huge disbalance between factions on servers, so they relooked the draenei (originally the brokens) to be more fashionable for the alliance and that's all, lore has nothing to do in that.

For Blizzard gameplay come before roleplay. And even from a roleplay point of view, Draenei in the horde would have been an abomination (just like the blood elves).

not saying you're wrong on the reasons, beause following that logic, Draenei on the horde would not be an abomination because the lore would hae written their story and character to fit better with the horde after they place them there. and for the numbers game it would have helped a lot too to have two impressive and icivilized races on the horde, not just one - night elves and humans are huge races , as we saw even blood levs on the horde did not fix the imbalance straight away,. it took years and constantly forcing a horde narrative, playing the horde etc, fixing the racials and pvp etc, which is why many of us like the horde, it's so much better - because all the attention went there to help pull the numbers back, they'd have got their much sooner if both Draenei and Blood elves were horde.

Another alternative would have been to have humans on both sides, fixed by making the forsaken look more human like than zombie like, like a vampire edge to them rather than a zombie edge, that would have made the horde very very popular and given a recognisable human face to begin with. It would have worked, because the forsaken would have had a different model anyway, skinnier with unique face and different animations - they'd probablyhave been more attractive looking too, that would have helped offset some of the numbers .

I do like the idea of night elves on the horde, after WC3, night elves were very popular, but without any story development or very crappy ones anyway, they are nothing compared to blood elves and high elvs, all their interesting stuff happened in other titles, in wow, they only have a little development in Cataclysm, and then in Legion where you see a lot more of them, but these ones aren't attached to the alliance, especially their most attractive arcane versions, the nightborne in the kaldorei empire city of Suramar.

I would never pick a night elf over a blood elf, and I don't think most people who haven't played WC3 would - which is why i'm surprised they ditn' try to make the night elves at least as attractive as the blood elves, light skin is always going to be preferred to darker skin especially an odd/unsual purple one that has an alieny feel to it, to compensate for the oddness you tend to try and make them as exotic looking as you can like they did with the dranei who have lovely beautiful faces, - the night e are not given the aesthietic boost they should have for being the darker elf group.

[Notshauna]

The fact Draenei worship the Light makes a big connection to Humans and Dwarves especially. The Orcs don't have that luxary other then "Oh yeah I know you guys...we kinda massacred you guys."


Unknown race that you have something in common vs. a race you know that also was a pawn of greater forces and massacred you(Doesn't help many of the Orcs went into it willingly).

It doesn't matter how much in common with the Humans and Dwarves the Draenei have, they can't communicate with them and they see them as an enemy. Until you close that gap Orcs are the only race that knows otherwise and can communicate with them.

Unknown hostile race that you can't communicate with VS a race that you can and isn't actively hostile.

[Teri]

It doesn't matter how much in common with the Humans and Dwarves the Draenei have, they can't communicate with them and they see them as an enemy. Until you close that gap Orcs are the only race that knows otherwise and can communicate with them.

Unknown hostile race that you can't communicate with VS a race that you can and isn't actively hostile.

This basicly, on Azuremyst isle, the Draenei player meets alliance races that aren't hostile, however they also meet hostile naga, furbolgs, goblins and blood elves.

So yeah, the first "good guy" humanoids Draenei met were alliance explorers at Odesyus' Landing.

[Deleted]

The Orcs led a, albeit unsuccessful, genocide against the Draenei within living memory so no that wouldn't make any sense. There's putting aside old differences to save the world and bowing to the Son of an Orc would helped said genocide, albeit unwillingly.

Also describing Queen Azshara as the leader of the BE is like calling the Monarch of Britain the leader of America, ages ago they did tule ancestors of the people in question.

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I also think it would have been nice for the horde to have another non-elf advanced civilization, and tbh I think the Eredar Draenei fit the horde look feel better, and with the blood elves with them I think that would have been great balance .

Define 'advanced' because technology the Forsaken are fairly advance compared to the other Horde races and many alliance races.

[Teri]

Define 'advanced' because technology the Forsaken are fairly advance compared to the other Horde races and many alliance races.

Forsaken are definately on par with humans in tech, as they are practicly lordaeron humans you'd expect no less, furthermore they specialized in plague and Sylvanas even mentions that the catapults on the ships are improved by Goblins :

Dwarves have their gryphons/steam tanks, Orcs got their Demolishers/Wind Riders.

But now in modern wow times we also see human gryphon riders, and paratroopers of all races(7th legion), also Forsaken Bat riders.

Gnomes have copter/airplane/submarine tech, just like goblins have planes/zeppelins/submarine(formerly turtles) tech.

Night elves have their own fleet in Warcraft 3, as well as Balistas/Glaive throwers, and Hippogryph air cavalry.

We even see (forest)troll and high elf ships in warcraft 2.

[Deleted]

Forsaken are definately on par with humans in tech, as they are practicly lordaeron humans you'd expect no less, furthermore they specialized in plague and Sylvanas even mentions that the catapults on the ships are improved by Goblins

Dwarves have their gryphons/steam tanks, Orcs got their Demolishers/Wind Riders.

Gnomes have copter/airplane/submarine tech, just like goblins have planes/zeppelins/submarine(formerly turtles) tech.

We even see (forest)troll and high elf ships in warcraft 2.

They're more advanced then the Orcs, Trolls, Tauren, pandas and arguably the Blood Elfs, who basically only use magic. Ally wise thery're leaps and bounds ahead of the Night Elves. They're advanced then Humans. Humanity in wow use Gnome and Dwarf technology and seem to produce very little themselves. Forsaken have an entire organisation used for scientific advancement unlike the humans.

The Gnomes, Goblins and Space Goats are clearly more advanced. Dwarfs and Worgen arguably around the same point.

[Notshauna]

This basicly, on Azuremyst isle, the Draenei player meets alliance races that aren't hostile, however they also meet hostile naga, furbolgs, goblins and blood elves.

So yeah, the first "good guy" humanoids Draenei met were alliance explorers at Odesyus' Landing.

I'm aware of how it is but, I'm referring to how it should be. It makes absolutely zero logical sense for Azuremyst to play out how it does, especially in regards to their interactions with the Alliance and Blood Elves hell, I'd even consider it a plot hole.

[Teri]

They're more advanced then the Orcs, Trolls, Tauren, pandas and arguably the Blood Elfs, who basically only use magic. Ally wise thery're leaps and bounds ahead of the Night Elves. They're advanced then Humans. Humanity in wow use Gnome and Dwarf technology and seem to produce very little themselves. Forsaken have an entire organisation used for scientific advancement unlike the humans.

Oh I certainly don't disagree, Forsaken probably have the most advanced 1-race army in WoW if we don't talk Naaru/Triumvirate/Army of Light tech influence like Vindicaar.

Only downside, they can't field the numbers as their troops can't reproduce, and in lore probably have lower population then any other race.

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I'm aware of how it is but, I'm referring to how it should be. It makes absolutely zero logical sense for Azuremyst to play out how it does, especially in regards to their interactions with the Alliance and Blood Elves hell, I'd even consider it a plot hole.

With current lore knowledge, it's a lot more complicated, especially since the timeline of Early TBC before Black Temple/Sunwell , and azuremyst/outland being a snapshot of WoW.

Now it's even hard to imagine going back to a full horde v alliance conflict involving all race vs all race.

And even if you were let's say Scryer in TBC, Ishanah(leader of Aldor back then) still follows the priest order, and serves as an Innkeeper in Vindicaar.

I know during Sunwell timeline, basicly the Aldor/Scyer formed the Shattered Sun offensive, and that's the closest pact with blood elf and draenei races , again, those were splinter faction and not Exodar/Silvermoon Exiles, following a'dal/naaru.

[Deleted]

Oh I certainly don't disagree, Forsaken probably have the most advanced 1-race army in WoW if we don't talk Naaru/Triumvirate/Army of Light tech influence like Vindicaar.

Only downside, they can't field the numbers as their troops can't reproduce, and in lore probably have lower population then any other race.

No they probably one of the largest faction in the Horde atm. Orc just have a civil war, the troll where the target of yet another Orc genocide. The Forsaken have been clearing out the graves of Lorderon and Gileanus. They also haven't had many defeats over all. Cataclysm they basically one every fight they where involved, especially as they focused on long distanced weapons over actual fighting.

[Teri]

No they probably one of the largest faction in the Horde atm. Orc just have a civil war, the troll where the target of yet another Orc genocide.

That's true, I didn't took note how the other races were basicly on the frontlines all the time, we didn't see much forsaken armies at all since wotlk. And also because of garrosh basicly despised them (silverpine cata questline).

But lorewise I don't know how much all this conflict took toll or how many graves are available even.

It's just hard to imagine another full out war at this point.

I really want to see more Sylvanas/Undercity development in a Future expansion. Right now the horde feels partly phased out, reliant on Draenei/Krokul/Army of Light to even campaign on Argus. Liadrin basicly the only horde representative at all.

[Stelio Kontos]

I played the hell out of WC3, and my first toon was a Night Elf.

That being said, my main now is a Draenei, and I wouldn't have rolled on if they had gone Horde instead.

And using OP's logic, it would have been good for Alliance to have gotten the Draenei AND the Blood/High Elves and not give the Horde a new race in BC.