Active shooter on Las Vegas strip.

[Bodakane]

And again, that makes you a sheep. Please try and broaden your scope.

Its entirely ridiculous that a Trump supporter says "broaden your scope" when they believe only 4 sources of information, FOX. Brietbart, InfoWars and Russian Intelligence.

[Kujako]

Yes. The word arms now and back when the FF's used it, didn't narrow down what type of weapon.

Well if you want to go back to the original meaning, you have to acknowledge the full amendment including the comma. We've long since given up on that. What the 2nd Amendment is now interpreted to mean seems to have little historical context.

[Orbitus]

Are you stalking me, ser?

Nope. Just reading through the pages that I missed and seeing how wrong people are. Even in the wake of all of the information that is out there. Especially since you claimed he was an Antifa and Hillary supporter. Even though there is no information out there that supports that except for the wrong name of the shooter that was bullshit and already debunked by the Clark County Sheriff.

[Bodakane]

Well if you want to go back to the original meaning, you have to acknowledge the full amendment including the comma. We've long since given up on that. What the 2nd Amendment is now interpreted to mean seems to have little historical context.

The point I'm making is that using "infringement of the Bill of Rights" is a stupid argument against gun control, because based on the definition of "arms" we are ALL ok with infringing the 2A because we don't let anyone have landmines and nukes.

[Cerus]

There was no simulation, it was automatic fire. Anyone that's used automatic weapons know what it sounds like. They are not banned they are highly regulated, and there was loopholes that existed for decades to get around the purchase paperwork.

It was confirmed to be bump fire stocks. You’ve obviously never seen or used one. Most can’t tell the difference.

They are banned. Only those with a crap ton of money to get a license can own one and they’re extremely limited to when the gun was made. The only “loophole” is illegally modifying semi autos.

[XDurionX]

Good thing I have a gun to defend myself from real threats then.

Where are all these good guys with guns that stop these lunatics? Hint: This never happens. Gun owners have this weird fantasy of turning into John McClane to save the day instead of shitting their pants and running like everybody else (which is a pretty normal and sane behaviour in such a situation). But it's a fairy tale.


Self-defense gun use is rare and not more effective at preventing injury than other protective actions

Victims use guns in less than 1% of contact crimes, and women never use guns to protect themselves against sexual assault (in more than 300 cases). Victims using a gun were no less likely to be injured after taking protective action than victims using other forms of protective action. Compared to other protective actions, the National Crime Victimization Surveys provide little evidence that self-defense gun use is uniquely beneficial in reducing the likelihood of injury or property loss.

This article helps provide accurate information concerning self-defense gun use. It shows that many of the claims about the benefits of gun ownership are largely myths.

It shows many claims about benefits are largely myths.

Many claims about the benefits are myths.

Myths.

[Kujako]

The point I'm making is that using "infringement of the Bill of Rights" is a stupid argument against gun control, because based on the definition of "arms" we are ALL ok with infringing the 2A because we don't let anyone have landmines and nukes.

Well my original point was that most people would say that nukes (for example) are not covered, so everyone is in favor of limits on the 2nd Amendment and the argument is just over where they are.

[Bodakane]

Well my original point was that most people would say that nukes (for example) are not covered, so everyone is in favor of limits on the 2nd Amendment and the argument is just over where they are.

Which is what I'm saying......

[urasim]

I haven't been wrong about a single thing.

You claim to know what the founding fathers meant based on nothing more than you desire to won a gun. You do not get to redefine the fucking word "arms" to suit your bullshit.

This is you being wrong AGAIN. I don't want to own a gun. I don't own a gun. I've never fired one. I've never held one. I don't have a desire to ever even be near one. I'd rather keep my distance, thanks.

I'm not claiming to know exactly what the founding fathers meant. I making a logical deduction based on the facts that we have around that time period. They had rifles, pistols, and cannons. Guess what's legal in the US? Rifles, pistols, and cannons. What's not legal? Things that are not rifles, pistols, and cannons... So you're entire point about "right to bear arms" means everything including "death stars and light sabers" is clearly dead fucking wrong.

[Cerus]

Some potential spree shooter might not make it past the gun aquiring stage or settle for a less effective weapon.

Those wishing to do harm with guns will find a gun. We have extremely strict gun laws in this country. Chicago has some of the toughest. That hasn’t stopped it from being the gun crime capital of the country.

Shall we ban knives, cars etc too? How about alcohol?

[urasim]

Well my original point was that most people would say that nukes (for example) are not covered, so everyone is in favor of limits on the 2nd Amendment and the argument is just over where they are.

That's not a limit on the second amendment. That's a limit created BY the second amendment. Because nukes aren't included as "a right to bear arms". It's in reference to similar weaponry to the time period it was written.

[shimerra]

The original intent was to have guns to over throw the government if need be. It also protects the 1st amendment? Or did they mess up too? 3rd, 4th, 5th?

Is the second one the only one they messed up on ?

You are aware the entire existence of ANY amendments is basically because they messed up/forgot things in the original constitution and they knew they would so they left a means to allow us to amend them in the future because they knew they couldn't account for everything? Especially in the far future. The entire fact that there's an amendment processes is essentially a tacit admission by the founding fathers that they may have missed something/messed something up/not been able to predict a future situation so they allowed for changes to be made to account for that.

Also the very founding fathers disagreed on a lot of what was meant and they were the fuckers who wrote and signed the thing. Strict consructionists vs loose interpretation anti fed vs federalists. Thomas Jefferson literally almost didn't buy the Louisiana purchase because he was a strict constructionist and he was concerned it wasn't lawful for him to make the purchase because the power wasn't expressly granted in the constitution. He did it anyway. There was actually a very lively debate as to what "a well regulated militia" was even back then. And considering one of our earliest presidents wrote the horrible abomination of the Alien and Sedition act let's not put them up on some magical philosophical pedestal. They messed up on more than one thing that's for sure.


Once again you're expecting people who lived in a time where it took weeks or months to travel any significant distance for a wealthy person where as now joe bumb fuck anyone can cross the country in hours for pretty cheap and whose guns took a minute or so for a quick reloader to fire the next shot can and did reasonably predict the firepower a single person can possess today.

[Noradin]

That's not a limit on the second amendment. That's a limit created BY the second amendment. Because nukes aren't included as "a right to bear arms". It's in reference to similar weaponry to the time period it was written.

We cannot really let that stand, after all, everything else about it isn't interpreted how it was meant in the timer period it was written.

[Nurasu]

No, there are no circumstances where you have time to get the gun from the safe space it's supposed to be in and at the same time have it be deemed self-defense in court. You'll end up like the guy in Rödeby who shot 2 people who came to his home with weapons because he had time to get his hunting rifle, get ammo and then shoot them, he was convicted for dråp.

You can't even go grab a knife. If you happen to carry a knife on you, you're allowed to use it to defend yourself. If you have to go get it to defend yourself, it's most likely not going to go under self-defense.
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Show the cases.

I haven't forgotten you; reading through case law in Swedish is very time consuming. I might have PM you. The knife one is not true, as shown by this case https://lagen.nu/dom/nja/2009s234, though also in that case they did indeed presume he used unnecessary force (to note, obtaining the hammer and confronting the neighbor was deemed perfectly legal).

[Noxulos]

It was confirmed to be bump fire stocks. You’ve obviously never seen or used one. Most can’t tell the difference.

They are banned. Only those with a crap ton of money to get a license can own one and they’re extremely limited to when the gun was made. The only “loophole” is illegally modifying semi autos.

What he said, bump stocks aren't illegal -- in addition, the same function can also be accomplished with a simple belt loop:



Banning weapons will accomplish nothing. People that have a will to commit violence will find a way to commit violence. If you want to discuss limiting the scope of their violence, then that is another topic entirely.

[McFuu]

I was talking about the AR15, which is the civilian semi-automatic version of the M16. And yes there is kits to make an AR15 basically fully automatic with the recoil of the gun. And apparently is completely legal because you can buy it online.

An AR15 and an M15 are not the same weapon. The M15 is basically a failed M14 variant that was meant to replace the BAR as a squad automatic rifle. The difference between an AR15 and an M16 are essentially manufacturer and "burst". There are ways to add full auto to M16s the same as there are ways to do it for AR15s.

[Wyrt]

What he said, bump stocks aren't illegal -- in addition, the same function can also be accomplished with a simple belt loop:



Banning weapons will accomplish nothing. People that have a will to commit violence will find a way to commit violence. If you want to discuss limiting the scope of their violence, then that is another topic entirely.

And gun nuts when crazy over the idea of AR-15 being banned...

Seems like a justified ban to me.

[Player Twelve]

I haven't forgotten you; reading through case law in Swedish is very time consuming. I might have PM you. The knife one is not true, as shown by this case https://lagen.nu/dom/nja/2009s234, though also in that case they did indeed presume he used unnecessary force (to note, obtaining the hammer and confronting the neighbor was deemed perfectly legal).

Hammers do not fall under the same law as knives so I don't know why you refer to a case with a hammer. Also, where does it say he went back and grabbed a hammer?

You're aware that you can't walk around with a knife on you, right? You can walk around with a hammer on you, which the person in this case did. He didn't go back and grab it, he already had it on him and used it to defend himself from his crazy ass neighbour attacking him with a knife.

[Independent voter]

https://armalite.com/shop/m-15-light-tactical-carbine/

M-15 LIGHT TACTICAL CARBINE (L.T.C.)

[imabanana]

Where are all these good guys with guns that stop these lunatics? Hint: This never happens. Gun owners have this weird fantasy of turning into John McClane to save the day instead of shitting their pants and running like everybody else (which is a pretty normal and sane behaviour in such a situation). But it's a fairy tale.

There was a "good guy with a gun" in this case, the one who got into the hotel through employee entrance, and ended up confusing police a lot by making them believe he was another shooter.