Prototype Mexico border wall

[Lillyth]

So is that going to get a death strip as well?... When will America attempt at world dominance?

[Soeroah]

What a pointless waste of money.

North Koreans seem to be able to get past the most deadly zone on the planet to kidnap South Koreans with their tunnels. I can't imagine a wall will be able to stop particularly determined people getting past.

All this will do is make average people unable to get into the country; criminals will still be able to circumvent it. Hey, that sounds familiar.

[araine]

They're doing something. I honestly thought this was just another empty promise. How far will they get with this? Not sure. They can easily just put a ladder up against the thing and climb over it anyway. But the article says that the old fence it would take minutes to just run through it. With a concrete wall and actually having to scale it, it would take longer. More likely for people to get caught that way if the wall is being watched.

And than the facts strike that 99% of all undocumented people actually arrive at the airport etc and the wall will do nothing to fix the problem you think we have.

[Rasulis]

I think your arguments are spot on, but we as citizens of a nation with laws should not be hunky-dory with this. Exploiting illegal anything simply shouldn't be tolerated. And the net effect is questionable when that $1/hour illegal gets social benefits shirked by the business that also breaks the law by hiring them, and taxpayers must pick up.

If 100% urbanization of people and automation of agriculture stops corrupt businesses from flouting tax, labor, and minimum wage law, maybe we should welcome it.

Historically, agricultural workers in the U.S. have been imported from other countries with vulnerable populations, have always been a disenfranchised group of workers, and have in general never had the right to vote. We can see this history of exploitative conditions in the events and policies that laid the groundwork for our broken agricultural system today.

1600s Indentured white servant from Europe.

1650s - 1800s African people.

18602 - 1930s Asian labor. By 1886, 7 out of every 8 farm workers were Chinese, Japanese and Filipino workers. Followed by the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882.

1942 - 1964 Bracero program. To this day, former Bracero workers are still fighting to get the 10% mandatory reductions which were withheld from their wages that they were supposed to receive back when their contracts ended and they returned to Mexico.


None of these have changed. US agriculture is still heavily dependent on these type of workers. The same with US construction industries. For that matter, any industries that are heavily reliant on manual workers.

[BlackMage66652]

This is such a waste of taxpayer money. Healthcare is too expensive to implement, but we can write blank checks to the military and to build this stupid fucking wall.

Priorities.

[araine]

This is such a waste of taxpayer money. Healthcare is too expensive to implement, but we can write blank checks to the military and to build this stupid fucking wall.

Priorities.

pretty much, just hope we tax red states like crazy so we get them to pay for this fucking nonsense

[Anevers]

You fools! You forgot about planes! We always forget about planes!

The wall won't work, and it's just a silly waste of money.

[Puri]

Hadrian's Wall, The Great Wall of China, Berlin wall.. now the Mexico Border Wall (until a fancier name is decided). All which proved one thing, they really never kept anything out :P

Are Mexico paying for this, or is this built off the backs of American tax payers? Last I heard Mexico were refusing to pay.

Actually all your examples did exactly what they were supposed to do for the time they were built

[Adam Jensen]

You fools! You forgot about planes! We always forget about planes!

The wall won't work, and it's just a silly waste of money.

We'll just make the wall 40,000 feet high.

[Halicia]

Actually all your examples did exactly what they were supposed to do for the time they were built

The Great Wall wasn't intended to keep people out, it's simply too large to man. It was intended to keep people in.

[Puri]

The Great Wall wasn't intended to keep people out, it's simply too large to man. It was intended to keep people in.

Actually it was supposed to keep the Mongolians out, but the Berlin Wall was directly built to keep people in. That doesn't change the fact that the principle of a wall (to keep people in or out) worked perfectly.

[Anevers]

Actually all your examples did exactly what they were supposed to do for the time they were built

Did they? The mongol horde still invaded China. Did you not watch Mulan? Hadrian's Wall was only effective when it was completely manned, mind you the wall is extremely long and it costed the empire a pretty Denarius. No the Berlin wall failed as well because it's purpose was to keep people in...and people found many ways to escape...several good documentaries on the subject.

A wall between Mexico and the U.S. will only cost the tax payers money, and doesn't address any of the issues that are the cause today. Mind you at first the wall would only be 60% effective (this will go down as people build systems to get around, under, or even through parts of it) at best towards to the goal of stopping undocumented immigrants from staying in the U.S., are you really wanting to spend 25-30 billion on a wall that is only 60% effective to build and increasingly expensive to maintain and staff? Doesn't make much sense.

[jackofwind]

Actually it was supposed to keep the Mongolians out, but the Berlin Wall was directly built to keep people in. That doesn't change the fact that the principle of a wall (to keep people in or out) worked perfectly.

Except the Great Wall didn't keep the Mongols out and the Berlin Wall didn't keep the East Berliners in.

"Working perfectly"

[Thedude-Illidan]

Actually it was supposed to keep the Mongolians out, but the Berlin Wall was directly built to keep people in. That doesn't change the fact that the principle of a wall (to keep people in or out) worked perfectly.

The Great Wall failed, the Maginot line failed (it's close enough), and there's only one Germany now. Sigh.

[Puri]

Did they? The mongol horde still invaded China. Did you not watch Mulan? Hadrian's Wall was only effective when it was completely manned, mind you the wall is extremely long and it costed the empire a pretty Denarius. No the Berlin wall failed as well because it's purpose was to keep people in...and people found many ways to escape...several good documentaries on the subject.

The great wall was built for over 1000 years and provided protection for hundreds of years, as even your article claims. As of it failure it's obvious that such a giant structure would require to be fully manned, which was not the case for many (unimportant and even then already historical) parts of it.
As you state, Hadrians wall did what it was supposed to do as long as it was maintained.
And the Berlin Wall was one of the most effectives borderlines ever. It stopped the bleeding of eastern Germany and reduced refugees from there to the west from 250000 per year before the wall to about 500 per year after.

But yes, I agree that a giant wall that is manned and maintained between the US and Mexico will cost more than the immigrants would ever cause on costs and thus is complete pointless. But that doesn't mean that the wall itself would be useless.

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Except the Great Wall didn't keep the Mongols out and the Berlin Wall didn't keep the East Berliners in.

"Working perfectly"

The Great Wall failed, the Maginot line failed (it's close enough), and there's only one Germany now. Sigh.

The Great Wall worked for hundreds of years, the german wall reduced the amount of refugees from 250000 per year to 500, and the Maginot Line failed because the germans never tried to pass it.

[Anevers]

But that doesn't mean that the wall itself would be useless.

Solar Panels and wind turbines?

[Puri]

Solar Panels and wind turbines?

Wall mainly it will keep mexican refugees out, but obviously you could use for power generation, too. Or as a huge graffity wall.

[jackofwind]

The great wall was built for over 1000 years and provided protection for hundreds of years, as even your article claims. As of it failure it's obvious that such a giant structure would require to be fully manned, which was not the case for many (unimportant and even then already historical) parts of it.
As you state, Hadrians wall did what it was supposed to do as long as it was maintained.
And the Berlin Wall was one of the most effectives borderlines ever. It stopped the bleeding of eastern Germany and reduced refugees from there to the west from 250000 per year before the wall to about 500 per year after.

But yes, I agree that a giant wall that is manned and maintained between the US and Mexico will cost more than the immigrants would ever cause on costs and thus is complete pointless. But that doesn't mean that the wall itself would be useless.

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The Great Wall worked for hundreds of years, the german wall reduced the amount of refugees from 250000 per year to 500, and the Maginot Line failed because the germans never tried to pass it.

The Berlin Wall didn't stop people from crossing, the Death Zone did. The Wall was an obstacle, sure, but it was the Death Zone and trigger happy East German guards that made people too afraid to cross it. Are you proposing a Death Zone along the Mexican border as well?

The Great Wall worked to deter raiding parties, sure, but it was built to protect against full-blown invasions. It failed to stop them though, as evidenced by the fact that the Ming dynasty (who committed the most to the Wall) were overthrown by the Manchu Qing. The Wall failed to protect against the invasions that it was built to dissuade. It was a wall built for a completely different purpose, so it's hard to compare the two. Presumably the Mexico border isn't going to be the site of an invasion force anytime soon.

[zealo]

The Berlin Wall didn't stop people from crossing, the Death Zone did. The Wall was an obstacle, sure, but it was the Death Zone and trigger happy East German guards that made people too afraid to cross it. Are you proposing a Death Zone along the Mexican border as well?

The Great Wall worked to deter raiding parties, sure, but it was built to protect against full-blown invasions. It failed to stop them though, as evidenced by the fact that the Ming dynasty (who committed the most to the Wall) were overthrown by the Manchu Qing. The Wall failed to protect against the invasions that it was built to dissuade. It was a wall built for a completely different purpose, so it's hard to compare the two. Presumably the Mexico border isn't going to be the site of an invasion force anytime soon.

Even it were, this isn't the 15th century. A wall as a fixed fortification would be even more obsolete than back in the day of Ming China.

[cubby]

Just because you don't want the wall doesn't mean it won't work.

Just because you want the wall doesn't mean it will work. See what I did there?