Humans as a major bad guy?

[StormQuill]

Has a Human faction ever been a major antagonist force in WoW?

With rumors of a South Seas expansion and the possible return of Kul Tiras, I was wondering if they could serve as a primary threat in 8.0. They wouldn't be the Main Bad, as it seems likely the Void will fill that role (though they could postpone it one expac without too much heat). But instead would be more like the Nightborne or Mantid, an initial threat that must be dealt with first.

I feel that Kul Tiras could actually make for an interesting antagonist, though not by themselves. Imagine instead an Old Alliance, consisting of Kul Tiras, Alterac, and Stromgarde, with something backing them (N'zoth I guess) as they would need a bit more muscle to really pose a threat. They could see the current Alliance as an abomination and consider Stormwind traitors for working with the Horde. We could even have an interesting Genn character arc as the Old Alliance tries to sway him to their side with promises to retake Gilneas, and he must choice between his new king (whom he doesn't have much faith in) or possibly his homeland, and perhaps some of his countrymen who choose to join.

The elephant in the room would be Jaina. I'm not wild about her being a boss, and as such I would be more interested in her joining the Old Alliance, and then coming to the realization that revenge isn't all it's cracked up to be, and is forced once again to turn against her own people.

This was kind of a rambled mess, but what are your thoughts?

[Dagoth Ur]

Shadow over Innsmouth Kul'Tiras style!

[Techno-Druid]

I want to see a more Mediterranean Iberian-Italian aesthetic Kul Tiras, maybe you could introduce a character like Euron Greyjoy, maybe a cousin or sibling to Jaina.

Meanwhile you could have a little troll and goblin lore mixed in, considering they're both connected to the South Seas.

[Sigxy]

shadow over innsmouth kul'tiras style!

Yes. All of it. All of the yes-es.

[Chemical Ellis]

I feel like Kul Tiras could actually make a pretty great villain.

While the rest of the Old Alliance in the Eastern Kingdoms has been forced to confront a changing world, fallen kingdoms, and different enemies, Kul Tiras has been (as far as we know) isolated from most of Azeroth's major crises since before the Third War. The last we saw their forces directly, it was Admiral Proudmoore's invasion of Thermamore, so caught up in his Second War hatreds that he could only acknowledge orcs as being worthy of extermination.

If this reflected the kingdom as a whole, I imagine their prejudices have only been allowed to ferment and grow worse over the years. Perhaps they're downright genocidal towards orcs, trolls, and goblins. Or, hey, remember the internment camps in the aftermath of the 2nd War? Kul Tiras was a wealthy trade nation, but we've seen little evidence of that trade in game. Perhaps they've sustained their extravagant lifestyles by turning their interned orcs and ogres into a slave caste, while the humans abuse them for sport and enjoy their plantation culture.

And, if they know that Jaina stood by and let her father be assassinated, she probably wouldn't have had the warmest homecoming. She could end up being our greatest ally against Kul Tiras (or at least its present rulers).

I think the N'zoth angle could be a good one. On the Black Kingdom map from Chronicle, N'zoth's empire is in just about the right place to be the land that would become Kul Tiras. Plus, the Legion Invasion of Azeroth was a global event - we just happened to spend most of it farting around in the Broken Isles. With demons raining from the sky, perhaps a desperate ruling class was willing to turn to anyone or anything that could dispatch the fel invaders. I could see us arriving on a Kul Tiras with a leadership already firmly (and secretly?) in thrall to the Old Gods.

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I want to see a more Mediterranean Iberian-Italian aesthetic Kul Tiras, maybe you could introduce a character like Euron Greyjoy, maybe a cousin or sibling to Jaina.

Meanwhile you could have a little troll and goblin lore mixed in, considering they're both connected to the South Seas.

oh my goodness, so much this! I've long felt WoW could use a really good Mediterranean aesthetic. Hills of chaparral and dense, low villages - maybe do it like Crete or Lipari, or even get really wild and do something in more of a Moorish style. Lots of nooks and levels to get lost in.

I'll be so disappointed if we finally get to Kul Tiras and it's just the same blocky barrack buildings from WC3.

[Arrashi]

Hopefully jaina will fill that role soon enough. And to be fair, she doesn't need to be human anymore at that time. Human based eldritch abomination will do just fine.

[McNeil]

It would be a cool idea, I've always liked the Scarlet Crusade and Defias Brotherhood as the major enemies for Stormwind/Forsaken. As of now Kul'Tiras would be friendly to the Alliance and hostile with the Horde, but Jaina might be able to push them over to turn against the Alliance aswell.

[Magnagarde]

They are literally all over the place.

The key thing here that makes people confused is that the Alliance-affiliated humans always mobilize against those humans who are evil or turn to evil, but there are evil humans all over the place. They don't side with the evil human and then kill him/her off only once their defeat is innevitable to save face or preserve themselves. Starting with the Cult of the Damned, tons of Twilight cultists, Archbishop Benedictus and so many more. Medivh is the greatest mention of them all, but Medivh and the Scarlet Crusade were also victims of their own tragic stories, though they've done some messed up stuff.

Humans are extremely weak villains overall, unless we're talking about top tier human mages and necromancers.

[Flaim]

...but Jaina might be able to push them over to turn against the Alliance aswell.

something like "hey, kul'tirasians. the alliance partied up with the horde during SoO, WoD and against the legion. did i just rustle your jimmies? good."

[Magnagarde]

Kul Tiras will naturally be hostile towards the Horde(ie their kingdom got attacked after the invasion through the portal, they lost a prince to the Horde and they annihilated a lot of the kingdom's prosperity throughout the Second War). That doesn't make them evil.

It would be extremely stupid to make them friendly with the Horde.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It would be a cool idea, I've always liked the Scarlet Crusade and Defias Brotherhood as the major enemies for Stormwind/Forsaken. As of now Kul'Tiras would be friendly to the Alliance and hostile with the Horde, but Jaina might be able to push them over to turn against the Alliance aswell.

jiana has no reason to fight the alliance ever.

[Arrashi]

jiana has no reason to fight the alliance ever.

They are weak. They used her, they betrayed her and she doesn't care anymore.

Alliance tore her apart.

[Deleted]

Well, Arthas was a human. Archbishop Benedictus was a human. Medivh was a human (sure he was only evil cause Sargeras controlled him). But an entire faction? Nope. Of course not many factions are exclusive to one race.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

They are weak. They used her, they betrayed her and she doesn't care anymore.

Alliance tore her apart.

ya none of that ever happend.

[Techno-Druid]

I feel like Kul Tiras could actually make a pretty great villain.

While the rest of the Old Alliance in the Eastern Kingdoms has been forced to confront a changing world, fallen kingdoms, and different enemies, Kul Tiras has been (as far as we know) isolated from most of Azeroth's major crises since before the Third War. The last we saw their forces directly, it was Admiral Proudmoore's invasion of Thermamore, so caught up in his Second War hatreds that he could only acknowledge orcs as being worthy of extermination.

If this reflected the kingdom as a whole, I imagine their prejudices have only been allowed to ferment and grow worse over the years. Perhaps they're downright genocidal towards orcs, trolls, and goblins. Or, hey, remember the internment camps in the aftermath of the 2nd War? Kul Tiras was a wealthy trade nation, but we've seen little evidence of that trade in game. Perhaps they've sustained their extravagant lifestyles by turning their interned orcs and ogres into a slave caste, while the humans abuse them for sport and enjoy their plantation culture.

And, if they know that Jaina stood by and let her father be assassinated, she probably wouldn't have had the warmest homecoming. She could end up being our greatest ally against Kul Tiras (or at least its present rulers).

I think the N'zoth angle could be a good one. On the Black Kingdom map from Chronicle, N'zoth's empire is in just about the right place to be the land that would become Kul Tiras. Plus, the Legion Invasion of Azeroth was a global event - we just happened to spend most of it farting around in the Broken Isles. With demons raining from the sky, perhaps a desperate ruling class was willing to turn to anyone or anything that could dispatch the fel invaders. I could see us arriving on a Kul Tiras with a leadership already firmly (and secretly?) in thrall to the Old Gods.

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oh my goodness, so much this! I've long felt WoW could use a really good Mediterranean aesthetic. Hills of chaparral and dense, low villages - maybe do it like Crete or Lipari, or even get really wild and do something in more of a Moorish style. Lots of nooks and levels to get lost in.

I'll be so disappointed if we finally get to Kul Tiras and it's just the same blocky barrack buildings from WC3.

I'd really like to see Kul Tiras as a collection of principalities with each varying in their allegiances at the point of the Horde and Alliance's arrival. With the Alliance allying itself with one of the islands and Princes while the Horde could either rebuild Kezan for the Horde or align themselves with the remaining Zandalari under Rastakhan.

I would also like for areas around the South Seas to contribute at least a little bit, even if it's just a single questline. What if the Tirasians are extorting the tol'vir, basically doing to Ramkahen what the British did to Hong Kong and China at that time. What if they attempt to weaponize saurok against the Horde and Alliance or even ally themselves with one of the mogu clans? Maybe they could launch an attack on Booty Bay with the Bloodsail pirates and the goblins forced to unite against OP warships.

[Arrashi]

ya none of that ever happend.

It happened in her head given her behaviour.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It happened in her head given her behaviour.

ya, no it didn't your making stuff up.

[Arrashi]

ya, no it didn't you making stuff up.

Denying reality doesn't change it.

[Tabrotar]

ya, no it didn't you making stuff up.

It´s Arrashi one of our local horde/sylvanas/blood elf fanboys(and Jaina hater) who will make shure that he post in every thread something of that list is mentioned and spill his usual bullshit.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Denying reality doesn't change it.

good to see your at-least aware that your making stuff up.