Majority of the World is obsolete content

[ls-]

Well, duh... You can't keep 12 years of content relevant at all times. It's also not that good for the playerbase, people only cry that the want fuckton of things to do, but when they actually get a lot to do, they burnout fast, really fast.

As for levelling, it's a complex issue. On the one hand you have new players, so levelling should be fun for them which it's not atm. On the other you have veteran players for whom levelling is PITA because it's linear, boring and there's nothing new to see/experience, so they want to be done w/ it ASAP.

TBF, even though I'm a seasoned player and can't be arsed to do or even look at old content, I'd like levelling to be more fun for newer players because first impression matters.

- - - Updated - - -

The reason levelling became so piss easy (To the point where my heirloomed level 20 trial paladin can one-to-two-shot a level 58 blasted lands mob providing he doesn’t miss) is because of that pointless stat squish they did at the start of WoD. They had to bring everything closer together in power which utterly simplified the levelling system, far more so than in Cata and MoP where it was at a happy medium.

Imagine how hilarious it’ll be if they do it again. Level 1 Lich King raid anyone?

They’d need to undo what WoD did and revamp the old world to fix the difficulty and give max level players a reason to go there.

News flash, there'll be new squish after Legion.

[Eurhetemec]

Bandaid on a wooden leg.
Blizzard wants the leveling time 1-Max to stay roughly the same, but the content grows with each xpac. So they nerf XP requirements.
They introduced Heirlooms to let alts zerg the content.
They 'streamlined' all the zones to provide linear tracks and avoid 'confusion'.
They nerfed all to the point that the newest of players can succeed all quest with 1 button and grey gear.

Even so, even new players are just spamming the dungeon queue, zerg and repeat, that is if they didn't already use their lvl100 boost out of the box.

The Cata revamp and Heirlooms were the final nails in the leveling zones' coffin. They still exist, but more like a heritage museum theme park showing a plastic version of 'what life was like in the past'.

Whilst I agree with all this, let's consider the counter-factual scenario.

Heirlooms are never introduced. XP requirements are not nerfed. You take as long to go through TBC and WotLK and so on as people did back in the day. Dungeons and PvP aren't changed to give large amounts of XP. Cataclysm's world redesign doesn't happen, and quests don't get made more linear and more rewarding, gear-wise. Basically we allow the quests added in vanilla to fix the 41-50 and 57-60 gaps but no others.

What then?

Do we have a game with more, happier players? Because I don't think we do. Alts become this sort of epic trial of patience and involve huge effort. Few people have them. People feel they can't restart on other servers, because the grind is simply too huge. Blizzard has provided this tremendous endgame, but relatively few players are reaching it, and the quests and leveling design feels older and shittier than other MMOs, like, say SWTOR, or even WAR - both would have benefited tremendously from WoW making this decision, because instead of their designs feeling like older versions of WoW with a few gimmicks, they'd have felt advanced, next-level.

And how would people look at Blizzard? They'd see the costs on paid server changes and the like at outright theft. If this counter-factual WoW introduced paid boosts even with the free one with an expansion, we'd have seen outrage on a level just really never seen before. The cries of "P2W" would have deafened people worldwide.

So despite the fact that I think many of these changes were poor choices, and that their aggregate effect is not great, I think making NONE of these changes would have been worse. I feel like, if they'd never introduced currently-level Rare-grade Heirlooms with bonus XP (Uncommon grade or Uncommon grade minus a couple of levels with no XP bonus would probably have been fine), and made all the other changes, we'd be in a much better place and have a better attitude towards leveling and so on.

[HeiAggra]

Next Xpac is 99% on Azeroth, we defeat the Legion and we need to take care of Azeroth against Void Lords so...no more space since nobody really like it in WARCRAFT.

AP isnt mandatory, it was when the artifact was tuned really bad, but with the Legionfall trait? Nobody gived a fuck for AP since it was worthless to farm AP for irrelevant % dps

Atm is semi-relevant only for NLC but NLC is 100% RNG LUCK so you can even be at 75 LVL for what a I give and yet have shitty trait on Relic NLC so AP doesn't help you.



Therefore scaling the entire World and adding WQ will not make it mandatory but just more expanded.




My "idea" is something like this :


STEP 1 : Azeroth Scaling to Max Lvl
STEP 2 : Add WQ to Azeroth, any zone
STEP 3 : Remove the Emissary Cap @ 3 and increase to 5 the min WQ for an Emissary Chest [fix kirin tor one ty]
STEP 4 : Daily CAP WQ @ 10 or 15


And then here the tricky part.


You make an EMISSARY CHEST for ANY Azerothian Faction [Not every rep ofc, only the easly farmable] so you can do WQ in old world for REP, AP and RANDOM EPIC ITEM like now.

and then @ EXALTED you get the usual Paragon Chest.



So basically you get WQ everywhere, old content and current content, with a CAP on WQ so people don't get aids forcing themselves to grinding.



Exampla Gratia :


You log in and do the 5 WQ for the Argent Crusade "Repeal the Undead @ Hearthglade!" or "Kill the Lich in Darrowshire!"

Turn in, get 500/1000/1500 REP plus AP Token (if still carry on 8.0), random item like now, random curious coin, toys, mount, cosmetic.


So people that want to get old rep can do in a different way, and funnier, than afk in this spot and aoe grey mobs until you eyes are bleeding.

Is on Azeroth but in the broken Isles.
The time you would loose traveling.
Old zones, not optimized. They still look old.
NPC's old models.
I have been on those zones before, i preffer new stuff.
Time and resources that needed to make that happen would cost us a raid tier
10 or 15 WQ? If i want to do more then what?
But it's only my opinion on this matter.
I still preffer to have some events once in a while that would give cosmetic stuff for those that would like to do some old stuff.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I was talking about this with a friend of mine the other day.

There's so much valid content that gets basically trashed once you reach level cap; people just amass in live content's main city/outpost with every kind of utility at their disposal (currently the only reason to move out of Dalaran is probaby to take a portal for Orgrimmar/Stormwind to reach for the AH) and everything else is forgotten.

Beside talking about questing zones, which Blizzard actually should find a way to recycle them (somewhat the same way the did with old dungeons via Timewalking events), I think Azeroth main faction cities should find their own reason to be there.

Coldn't we just like associate a function available for each city as a typical one, so players would have a reason to populate them once more?
I am just giving out some ideas.

[Deleted]

The time you would loose traveling.

No reason to leave Vindicaar beacons exclusive to Argus.

Old zones, not optimized. They still look old.

Doesn't matter, I remember some people praising Broken Shore and Northern Gorgrond. Pandaland, if you avert your eyes from the pandas, looks lovely.

NPC's old models.

Thank fuck for that, after Bliz took away good-looking options from PC Draenei, I'll enjoy any bit of them
"old" models anywhere.

I have been on those zones before, i preffer new stuff.

I have been in the new zones long enough and I had to do the whole Argus questline 5 times too many, I'd like to have something useful to do in a place that is not a fel shithole.

- - - Updated - - -

Coldn't we just like associate a function available for each city as a typical one, so players would have a reason to populate them once more?
I am just giving out some ideas.

You seem to be proposing to force people to come back by removing amenities from the places they normally would want to be. Blizz already know there's only so much of this sort of shit they can get away with.

[Deleted]

Is on Azeroth but in the broken Isles.
The time you would loose traveling.
Old zones, not optimized. They still look old.
NPC's old models.
I have been on those zones before, i preffer new stuff.
Time and resources that needed to make that happen would cost us a raid tier
10 or 15 WQ? If i want to do more then what?
But it's only my opinion on this matter.
I still preffer to have some events once in a while that would give cosmetic stuff for those that would like to do some old stuff.

Pandaria called, they'd like their dank meme back.

[HeiAggra]

No reason to leave Vindicaar beacons exclusive to Argus.
Doesn't matter, I remember some people praising Broken Shore and Northern Gorgrond. Pandaland, if you avert your eyes from the pandas, looks lovely.
Thank fuck for that, after Bliz took away good-looking options from PC Draenei, I'll enjoy any bit of them
"old" models anywhere.
I have been in the new zones long enough and I had to do the whole Argus questline 5 times too many, I'd like to have something useful to do in a place that is not a fel shithole.

- - - Updated - - -

You seem to be proposing to force people to come back by removing amenities from the places they normally would want to be. Blizz already know there's only so much of this sort of shit they can get away with.

Since pandaria the game got a overhaul update on zones and everything. So yeah Pandaria was great, Wod zones were great.
Portals from a space ship that is invading the enemy planet on zones not related to it??? Wierd.
Old models are old period.
Fel tainted zones. It's the Legion we are trying to end.
Ok u are tired of Argus and the old zones would be the same after 3 or 4 times.

[Eurhetemec]

Coldn't we just like associate a function available for each city as a typical one, so players would have a reason to populate them once more?

But what sort of function?

What about the function would make people enjoy staying in the city, rather than just get there as quickly as possible, then leave as quickly as possible?

[HeiAggra]

Pandaria called, they'd like their dank meme back.

LOL ok noted!

[Florena]

I don't think it's a problem. The zones are there to level in and don't all need to be relevant at max level.

[HeiAggra]

But what sort of function?

What about the function would make people enjoy staying in the city, rather than just get there as quickly as possible, then leave as quickly as possible?

A Bar, full of BE dancing.
Females one OFC

[Deleted]

Damn I am very very glad none of you guys are game developers. An obeservation that we just speed through over 90% of the gameworld without ever looking back (which is true, by the way) devolved into a 6 pages long argument about how quick leveling should be.

Did it not occur to any of you geniuses to add endgame content to the old zones? Either quests or world quests or dungeons. Anything. There is no rule that a zone can only provide quests for one leveling range like 10-20 for example.

The problem is not that leveling is shit (it is shit but that's a different point), but Blizzard's attitude towards zones is shit

[Deleted]

Is on Azeroth but in the broken Isles.
The time you would loose traveling.
Old zones, not optimized. They still look old.
NPC's old models.
I have been on those zones before, i preffer new stuff.
Time and resources that needed to make that happen would cost us a raid tier
10 or 15 WQ? If i want to do more then what?
But it's only my opinion on this matter.
I still preffer to have some events once in a while that would give cosmetic stuff for those that would like to do some old stuff.

The time you would loose traveling.

Pretty lame excuses, there are enough teleport/flypath at 500% so...also I don't see the URGE to SPEEDRUN stuff.

Old zones, not optimized. They still look old.

You need to go back to some zones i guess, only mobs model are still old

I have been on those zones before, i preffer new stuff.

new stuff that became obsolete in 3 week like argus? ok, but since nobody went to old content since cata i find pretty "lame"

Time and resources that needed to make that happen would cost us a raid tier

Literally 1 string to scaling, copy-paste WQ generator to azeroth.

ToS isn't a big success so far, also they put WQ on broken isle and yet we got 5 raid this content vs the 3 of wod *cough*

10 or 15 WQ? If i want to do more then what?

what if do all the WQ and get feel forced and come here to cry? better make a limit so you can live your life outside wow.

[Eurhetemec]

A Bar, full of BE dancing.
Females one OFC

Yeah, given people can alt-tab and bring up a pornsite (even a WoW-oriented pornsite!) in literally less time than it takes to cast your Hearthstone, I don't see that being a big draw.

You need something a bit more, er... WoW-ish, something with actual mechanics. An open-air arena with actual spectators and so on (not the hidden-ass PvE Brawler's Guild) might be an option for one city per faction, but I suspect that Blizzard is still working on making that tech fully functional and preventing interference.

[TheVaryag]

gLobal scaling like Legion ZOnes.

Hell no.

DO NOT globally scale zones like In Legion. Just no, don't. I'm a veteran of WoW for 12 years and this Isn't Nostalgia talking, It's never just Nostalgia, It's just fanboys putting fingers Into their ears not wanting to listen.

Global scaling with make leveling and gearing seem like a hassle, but Its' not. It's half of the game, wasn't leveling through majority of Vanilla a grand experience that took half of your time? It did for me and It had It's broken moments, vanilla wasn't perfect but I enjoyed It nonetheless, TBC made It better, then Wrath did...and then Cataclysm said "Fuck It" lets destroy the old zones and remake things.

To be fair, cataclysm quests were good, It's just that changing everything like that was.. unneeded and among other things screwed up the pacing of the story for those who wanted to follow It from Point A to Z, now they had to go to like 1-60 Cataclysm, then jump back In time in TBC, then Wrath and then back to Cataclysm In 80-85 zones. And for new players that's confusing without context or explenation.

Just don't encourage global scaling, dear lord don't. Next they'll be encouraged to do scaling to ilevel and then you'll ruin the entirity of the game, because gathering GEAR which Is the main reason we play and a core aspect to an RPG will become obsolete. That boar that you killed In valley of Trials/Wolf that you killed In Northshire? He'll be your level and kill you with a few strong bites, despite the fact that In 12 years you've gathered the flaming sword of Blackrock Legions, the slime armor of Gup'torlap and absorbed the powers of the Wind Lord Nazarok, a random low level wolf now scales to your level and kills you.

Putting new content to old zones and make it phased. Hell I would not mind entire expansion without new continent.

That's great, but the rest of the wow populace will, they've already given us the least zones In an expansion ever at launch, 5, Aszuna, Val'sharah, Highmoutain, Stormheim and Suramar, then we got Broken Shore and Argus which Is like 1.5 of a broken shore but more maze like and even more pointless.

More big zones, hell just make a continent as big as Eastern Kingdoms or Kalimdor, I'd gladly last a year of draught for them to do that kind of experience, they shouldn't feel pressured to give out zones quickly. Legion's already given us the least amount of zones, and the least amount of fun, right after you realize everything's menth to waste your time, ontop of RNG and pointless grinding.

[Deleted]

"OLD MODELS" are "OLD"


Maybe you missed the 7.3 UPDATE on YETI and TROGGS ? Also 90% of OLD MOBS can be found in Broken Isle so basically we already have all the remodels?


Every mob in Ashenvale-sque zone are update : DRYAD, NELF, FULBORGS, NAGA, DEMONS etc


so

[JoshuaNLG]

Hell no.

DO NOT globally scale zones like In Legion. Just no, don't. I'm a veteran of WoW for 12 years and this Isn't Nostalgia talking, It's never just Nostalgia, It's just fanboys putting fingers Into their ears not wanting to listen.

Global scaling with make leveling and gearing seem like a hassle, but Its' not. It's half of the game, wasn't leveling through majority of Vanilla a grand experience that took half of your time? It did for me and It had It's broken moments, vanilla wasn't perfect but I enjoyed It nonetheless, TBC made It better, then Wrath did...and then Cataclysm said "Fuck It" lets destroy the old zones and remake things.

To be fair, cataclysm quests were good, It's just that changing everything like that was.. unneeded and among other things screwed up the pacing of the story for those who wanted to follow It from Point A to Z, now they had to go to like 1-60 Cataclysm, then jump back In time in TBC, then Wrath and then back to Cataclysm In 80-85 zones. And for new players that's confusing without context or explenation.

Just don't encourage global scaling, dear lord don't. Next they'll be encouraged to do scaling to ilevel and then you'll ruin the entirity of the game, because gathering GEAR which Is the main reason we play and a core aspect to an RPG will become obsolete. That boar that you killed In valley of Trials/Wolf that you killed In Northshire? He'll be your level and kill you with a few strong bites, despite the fact that In 12 years you've gathered the flaming sword of Blackrock Legions, the slime armor of Gup'torlap and absorbed the powers of the Wind Lord Nazarok, a random low level wolf now scales to your level and kills you.

Seems fine in guild wars 2.

[HeiAggra]

Damn I am very very glad none of you guys are game developers. An obeservation that we just speed through over 90% of the gameworld without ever looking back (which is true, by the way) devolved into a 6 pages long argument about how quick leveling should be.

Did it not occur to any of you geniuses to add endgame content to the old zones? Either quests or world quests or dungeons. Anything. There is no rule that a zone can only provide quests for one leveling range like 10-20 for example.

The problem is not that leveling is shit (it is shit but that's a different point), but Blizzard's attitude towards zones is shit

I did i was waiting for a good one to put that one in
hehehe

[Jujudrood]

Literally every MMO in existence makes old content obsolete as new content is released.
Let's be real about GW2 and it's magnificent 'scaling'.
It's just a garbage ploy to get you to go find all the views and collect the skill points without roflstomping your way through at max level vs some level 10 trash.
If anything, it's irritating that at level 80, I can go to a 'starting' zone and it takes more than one attack to kill them, but not because the mobs themselves are more deadly, but rather they offer no real challenge nor gain new abilities; they just have more numbers to punch out of them.
It's not engaging, it's not exciting.
It doesn't make you think, it just makes you waste more time to get to your destination (seems like a familiar argument I've heard about Argus... hmmm....).

As for WoW, those old areas had their day in the sun.
That day has since passed.
Now, if they want to revamp the world yet again and make it interesting, I'm all for it, but if that just means they scale mobs by giving more HP without giving them an ability set and AI, then that's just another lame way to make it feel relevant when in reality you will continue to roflstomp everything like you do today, albeit at a slightly slower pace.

If, however, they take these old, tired zones and properly scale them with scaled abilities (like at level 20 they pretty much white attack with maybe one special ability, but at level 40 they introduce silences and stuns and other real abilities) and add quests that are relevant to the xpac (such as quests focused on the void tainting the land telling a relevant story, not about Mankrik's goddamn wife from several years ago...), then let's do it.
Let's make it more than a 'pull as many as you can without leaving aggro range' aoe-fest and make it actually take thought and consideration before pulling an entire area and watching them melt until I have no more quests that tell an old story that has grown stale since several xpacs have been released just to move onto the next area because WoW is more like a Diablo gibfest than an actual MMO.
I mean, is the Barrens still hung up on the Cataclysm? Deathwing is dead, we found pandas, we freaking time-traveled to an alternate universe and are not stomping our way through hordes of Demons, including the big cheese.
Maybe these zones should be evolving with all this time passing? Nah, let's just keep killing zhevra for hooves because we need moar hoofs!

TL;DR: Scaling the zones alone is not the way to go. Making the zones relevant requires new story elements, and it wouldn't hurt if the mobs were more than HP punching bags.

[Deleted]

Hell no.

DO NOT globally scale zones like In Legion. Just no, don't. I'm a veteran of WoW for 12 years and this Isn't Nostalgia talking, It's never just Nostalgia, It's just fanboys putting fingers Into their ears not wanting to listen.

Global scaling with make leveling and gearing seem like a hassle, but Its' not. It's half of the game, wasn't leveling through majority of Vanilla a grand experience that took half of your time? It did for me and It had It's broken moments, vanilla wasn't perfect but I enjoyed It nonetheless, TBC made It better, then Wrath did...and then Cataclysm said "Fuck It" lets destroy the old zones and remake things.

To be fair, cataclysm quests were good, It's just that changing everything like that was.. unneeded and among other things screwed up the pacing of the story for those who wanted to follow It from Point A to Z, now they had to go to like 1-60 Cataclysm, then jump back In time in TBC, then Wrath and then back to Cataclysm In 80-85 zones. And for new players that's confusing without context or explenation.

Just don't encourage global scaling, dear lord don't. Next they'll be encouraged to do scaling to ilevel and then you'll ruin the entirity of the game, because gathering GEAR which Is the main reason we play and a core aspect to an RPG will become obsolete. That boar that you killed In valley of Trials/Wolf that you killed In Northshire? He'll be your level and kill you with a few strong bites, despite the fact that In 12 years you've gathered the flaming sword of Blackrock Legions, the slime armor of Gup'torlap and absorbed the powers of the Wind Lord Nazarok, a random low level wolf now scales to your level and kills you.

Poor souls, are you a veteran of wow? wow impressive am too and you are just blinded by nostalgia.


the "LEVELLING IS PART OF THE END GAME FUN DURR" is dead with VANILLA and TBC, get over it.


This is a different iteration of WOW.