Nazis Marching in Charlottesville, AGAIN.

[mariachi]

"You will not replace us" aka "jyeew will not replace us" is straight up white supremacist rhetoric... you're doing the opposite of making your case there.

Complete nonsense. There's an argument to be made that extreme demographic changes (particularly by groups that immigrate here illegally) are worth bringing attention to, even protesting. You would only have a point in lambasting him if he and his followers were going around murdering minorities, not voicing their opinions.

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So then what is the problem here?

"Waaaaah, I killed the natives here and stole this land, BUT YOU'RE NOW ALLOWED TO TAKE IT FROM ME BY OUTNUMBERING ME!"

You mention theft yet it was very common practice for native Americans to sell swaths of land for guns and other supplies. In other words, trade; not theft.

Was it a bad deal? Absolutely. But it was a deal the natives willingly accepted because, despite what Hollywood may tell you, the tribes native to the U.S. were very eager to absolutely brutalize each other. Stuff like rifles enabled this and they viewed that power as something far more valuable than some acres of forest.

[Hitei]

That doesn't mean you have to like it.

It makes it a pretty dumb thing to whine about. Especially when it's whites in America whining about other races doing the same thing they did.

[Trifle]

I'm not Richard Spencer (nor part of his group) so I can't tell you what he thinks. What I can tell you is there's nothing wrong with a white person not wanting to be a minority in his own country. This is especially true in Europe, particularly when you look at demographics and realize certain countries (Germany, Sweden) are projected to be white minority within a few decades.

So what, African Americans aren't real Americans? They're allowed to be a minority, but you aren't because you're white? How is a Chinese American (who may be a 3rd generation citizen, for example) not American? Are white immigrants OK, but coloured ones aren't ? America has never been purely a white country, so it seems absurd for you to define what's ok or not ok based on the 'whiteness' of who lives there.

The fact that you thought it ok to type what you did shows just how ingrained racism really is. It may not have even been intentional on your part, but that really wasn't an acceptible idea to present.

[Freighter]

It makes it a pretty dumb thing to whine about. Especially when it's whites in America whining about other races doing the same thing they did.

I don't understand how you can't understand the rationale behind it all. It's not dumb, it's a perfectly understandable response to a perceived threat to their group.

[Endus]

Complete nonsense. There's an argument to be made that extreme demographic changes (particularly by groups that immigrate here illegally) are worth bringing attention to, even protesting. You would only have a point in lambasting him if he and his followers were going around murdering minorities, not voicing their opinions.

That "argument" is definitively white supremacy.

[mariachi]

So what, African Americans aren't real Americans? They're allowed to be a minority, but you aren't because you're white? How is a Chinese American (who may be a 3rd generation citizen, for example) not American? Are white immigrants OK, but coloured ones aren't ? America has never been purely a white country, so it seems absurd for you to define what's ok or not ok based on the 'whiteness' of who lives there.

The fact that you thought it ok to type what you did shows just how ingrained racism really is. It may not have even been intentional on your part, but that really wasn't an acceptible idea to present.

Posted it in a prior reply but it's true: America was designed by white men to benefit other whites. Blacks and Asians with families in this country dating back generations are not (to my knowledge) what Spencer's group protests.

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That "argument" is definitively white supremacy.

Protesting ethnic displacement doesn't make you a white supremacist.

More importantly this habit of calling everyone who disagrees with you a nazi is part of why these actual nazis are starting to feel legitimized, and are gaining support.

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P.S.: A certain someone is crawling prior thread pages, desperately looking for evidence of me "flaming" or other infractions. Presumably to (very flimsily) justify an account ban.

[Trifle]

Posted it in a prior reply but it's true: America was designed by white men to benefit other whites. Blacks and Asians with families in this country dating back generations are not (to my knowledge) what Spencer's group protests.

Just because someone was wrong in the past, doesn't mean you need to continue to be wrong now. Remember this was about something YOU said ("there's nothing wrong with a white person not wanting to be a minority in his own country"). America isn't purely your country.

[Endus]

Protesting ethnic displacement doesn't make you a white supremacist.

You're complaining that your country isn't "white enough". That's textbook white supremacist stuff.

More importantly this habit of calling everyone who disagrees with you a nazi is part of why these actual nazis are starting to feel legitimized, and are gaining support.

I didn't "call you a Nazi". I pointed out that your arguments are exactly the same arguments used by white supremacists.

If that bothers you, try not using those arguments.

[Dextroden]

You're complaining that your country isn't "white enough". That's textbook white supremacist stuff.



I didn't "call you a Nazi". I pointed out that your arguments are exactly the same arguments used by white supremacists.

If that bothers you, try not using those arguments.

And yet, if you mention how people who believe in communism think the same things as people who killed millions, it's magically different.

[mariachi]

Just because someone was wrong in the past, doesn't mean you need to continue to be wrong now. Remember this was about something YOU said ("there's nothing wrong with a white person not wanting to be a minority in his own country"). America isn't purely your country.

You have quite an uphill battle ahead of you if your argument is the Founding Fathers — a group of men almost universally revered for their thoughts — were simply "wrong." And that is who I'm referring to when I mention the country was originally designed by white men for the good of white men.

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You're complaining that your country isn't "white enough". That's textbook white supremacist stuff.



I didn't "call you a Nazi". I pointed out that your arguments are exactly the same arguments used by white supremacists.

If that bothers you, try not using those arguments.

"Richard Spencer's a nazi, and what you say sounds something he'd say, because that sounds nazi-like, which Richard Spencer is." This isn't logic or reason.

Sit and look at demographic trends and you'll realize why someone would want to protest. And for added fun, let's remove race out of the equation entirely: let's make everyone green and purple. The green people are mass-immigrating to a purple country in order to escape their green country, where there is an epidemic of violence and drug trade. Who initially caused that epidemic in the majority green country? Do you not think that, if the green people were to become a majority, those same problems wouldn't occur in the purple country? Or that the criminals wouldn't also travel into the purple countries?

[Trifle]

You have quite an uphill battle ahead of you if your argument is the Founding Fathers — a group of men almost universally revered for their thoughts — were simply "wrong." And that is who I'm referring to when I mention the country was originally designed by white men for the good of white men.

I think that most people (Seemingly not including you) now realise that racism is bad. The founding fathers can generally be considered good and yet still be wrong about some things, and most reasonable people should have no problem agreeing with that.

The green people are mass-immigrating to a purple country in order to escape their green country, where there is an epidemic of violence and drug trade. Who initially caused that epidemic in the majority green country? Do you not think that, if the green people were to become a majority, those same problems wouldn't occur in the purple country? Or that the criminals wouldn't also travel into the purple countries?

Changing the colours doesn't make it non-racist. You're still referring to people by skin colour. I'm reminded of Trump's infamous comment about Mexican rapists, thugs, and "presumably some are good people". And all the stuff you just said is why there are already immigration controls such as lengthy vetting, checks for skills the country desires etc.

[Endus]

And yet, if you mention how people who believe in communism think the same things as people who killed millions, it's magically different.

"Communism" didn't kill those people. And by any methodology you're using to produce that, "capitalism" ends up with a higher death toll, if you're honest about it. I'd argue that it's a stupid methodology in the first place, but I'm not the one making the claim.

"Richard Spencer's a nazi, and what you say sounds something he'd say, because that sounds nazi-like, which Richard Spencer is." This isn't logic or reason.

It's also not what I said. Is there a particular reason you're making shit up?

Sit and look at demographic trends and you'll realize why someone would want to protest. And for added fun, let's remove race out of the equation entirely: let's make everyone green and purple. The green people are mass-immigrating to a purple country in order to escape their green country, where there is an epidemic of violence and drug trade. Who initially caused that epidemic in the majority green country? Do you not think that, if the green people were to become a majority, those same problems wouldn't occur in the purple country? Or that the criminals wouldn't also travel into the purple countries?

You're explicitly arguing for ethnonationalist policy. Which is racist, irrational, and hateful. In your hypothetical, it's "purple supremacist".

If you don't want to get accused of being an ethnonationalist, stop making those arguments. \

It's particularly silly given a cursory glance at the data;



Crime rates have been dropping for nearly 30 years, steadily. There is no "epidemic" in the first place. It's a fiction you made up.

[Dextroden]

"Communism" didn't kill those people. And by any methodology you're using to produce that, "capitalism" ends up with a higher death toll, if you're honest about it. I'd argue that it's a stupid methodology in the first place, but I'm not the one making the claim.



It's also not what I said. Is there a particular reason you're making shit up?



You're explicitly arguing for ethnonationalist policy. Which is racist, irrational, and hateful. In your hypothetical, it's "purple supremacist".

If you don't want to get accused of being an ethnonationalist, stop making those arguments.

Then I guess "Nazism" hasn't killed anyone either.

[Endus]

Then I guess "Nazism" hasn't killed anyone either.

You're neither as subtle nor as clever as you think you are.

[mariachi]

I think that most people (Seemingly not including you) now realise that racism is bad. The founding fathers can generally be considered good and yet still be wrong about some things, and most reasonable people should have no problem agreeing with that.



Changing the colours doesn't make it non-racist. You're still referring to people by skin colour. I'm reminded of Trump's infamous comment about Mexican rapists, thugs, and "presumably some are good people". And all the stuff you just said is why there are already immigration controls such as lengthy vetting, checks for skills the country desires etc.

Well for one thing, the country's very design — the one that allowed it to both begin and prosper — had a wealth of "racist" policies. By modern definitions anyway. Considering no one seems to no what racism actually means anymore, as we see in general rhetoric (and even the rhetoric of this thread), I'm very skeptical to believe the more modern interpretations. Look to the bad decision-making of the oppressed, not just the laws (that, again, those apparent racists gradually did away with.) Frederick Douglass' commentary is a good starting point. You can even compare the sociological rise of asians and blacks to demonstrate the point even more.

I'm not even going to start on Trump's statement. It's a fact Mexico has an epidemic of those things, and it's not wrong to want to keep those problems out of the country.

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"Communism" didn't kill those people. And by any methodology you're using to produce that, "capitalism" ends up with a higher death toll, if you're honest about it. I'd argue that it's a stupid methodology in the first place, but I'm not the one making the claim.



It's also not what I said. Is there a particular reason you're making shit up?



You're explicitly arguing for ethnonationalist policy. Which is racist, irrational, and hateful. In your hypothetical, it's "purple supremacist".

If you don't want to get accused of being an ethnonationalist, stop making those arguments. \

It's particularly silly given a cursory glance at the data;



Crime rates have been dropping for nearly 30 years, steadily. There is no "epidemic" in the first place. It's a fiction you made up.

I'm going to side-step you not so subtly defending communism, as it's both hilarious and totally expected.

As for your chart, notice it says violent crime. It makes no mention of the inherent criminality of illegal immigration and all the problems it causes, ethnic concerns aside. And that's not even getting into Mexico's absolutely horrible standard of living, which you'd like to (by proxy) bring here en masse via their (illegal) immigration.

[Endus]

I'm going to side-step you not so subtly defending communism, as it's both hilarious and totally expected.

"Hilarious" to people who don't understand communist theory, maybe.

As for your chart, notice it says violent crime. It makes no mention of the inherent criminality of illegal immigration and all the problems it causes, ethnic concerns aside. And that's not even getting into Mexico's absolutely horrible standard of living, which you'd like to (by proxy) bring here en masse via their (illegal) immigration.

The first link is a bullshit meme someone threw together, and is both completely wrong on most of its claims and racist to boot.

The second tries to make the implicit argument that things like crime are inherently bound to one's genetics, which guess what? Is explicitly and definitively racist.

It's also factually wrong, since immigrants commit less crime than native-born Americans; https://www.cato.org/blog/immigratio...gal-immigrants
http://www.politifact.com/california...ess-likely-co/
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/whi...crimes-n777856
http://thehill.com/latino/324607-rep...-born-citizens

This is the problem. Your arguments are not just rooted in prejudice, they don't even have the flimsy defense of statistical backing to fall back on; your claims are all factually incorrect in addition to directly prejudiced.

[Mormolyce]

Complete nonsense. There's an argument to be made that extreme demographic changes (particularly by groups that immigrate here illegally) are worth bringing attention to, even protesting. You would only have a point in lambasting him if he and his followers were going around murdering minorities, not voicing their opinions.

You literally quoted white supremacist rhetoric to back up your argument.

The OPPOSITE of what you should be doing if you want to establish that caring about race demographics is legitimate and not merely motivated by racism.

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Sit and look at demographic trends and you'll realize why someone would want to protest.

"https://kek.gg"

You are an alt right shill. The end.

[mariachi]

"Hilarious" to people who don't understand communist theory, maybe.



The first link is a bullshit meme someone threw together, and is both completely wrong on most of its claims and racist to boot.

The second tries to make the implicit argument that things like crime are inherently bound to one's genetics, which guess what? Is explicitly and definitively racist.

It's also factually wrong, since immigrants commit less crime than native-born Americans; https://www.cato.org/blog/immigratio...gal-immigrants
http://www.politifact.com/california...ess-likely-co/
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/whi...crimes-n777856
http://thehill.com/latino/324607-rep...-born-citizens

This is the problem. Your arguments are not just rooted in prejudice, they don't even have the flimsy defense of statistical backing to fall back on; your claims are all factually incorrect in addition to directly prejudiced.

Communism isn't some secret theory for intellectuals. We're well aware of what it causes.

Second: let's look at your sources. Politifact? NBC? Come on now... you're the forum moderator. You should be setting a much better example, wouldn't you agree?

And lastly, none of the sources I've provided are biased or false. I think Snopes ran an article on that comic I posted somehow being false, but let's turn the mirror right back: you insist illegal immigrants commit less crime when it's far more likely they simply won't report crime because they're illegal immigrants.

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You literally quoted white supremacist rhetoric to back up your argument.

The OPPOSITE of what you should be doing if you want to establish that caring about race demographics is legitimate and not merely motivated by racism.

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"https://kek.gg"

You are an alt right shill. The end.

That bastard, denying Imgur money!

But on a more serious note... it's faster and I have to go through less hoops overall to use it. Try it for yourself. Refusing to use it because you believe it's "alt-right" (i.e.: disagrees with your politics) makes you the biased one here, not me.

[Endus]

Communism isn't some secret theory for intellectuals. We're well aware of what it causes.

Second: let's look at your sources. Politifact? NBC? Come on now... you're the forum moderator. You should be setting a much better example, wouldn't you agree?

Both sources are highly reputable. You just don't like them because they won't support deliberate disinformation, which your claims rely on.

And lastly, none of the sources I've provided are biased or false. I think Snopes ran an article on that comic I posted somehow being false, but let's turn the mirror right back: you insist illegal immigrants commit less crime when it's far more likely they simply won't report crime because they're illegal immigrants.

You saying stuff doesn't magically make it true. Your arguments are based on claims you have not provided any source for, and which are directly contradicted by the data we do have. It's made-up nonsense. That you're spending all your time complaining about the sources rather than the facts says all anyone needs to know.

The simple facts are that;

Illegal immigration is declining. All on its own. Way before Trump. https://cis.org/Shifting-Tide-Recent...ant-Population
Illegal immigrants are not posing any significant criminal threat.
Crime overall is declining.
There is no "epidemic" of crime to address.
Focusing on specific ethnic groups is explicitly racist and has no justification in anything.

[mariachi]

Both sources are highly reputable. You just don't like them because they won't support deliberate disinformation, which your claims rely on.



You saying stuff doesn't magically make it true. Your arguments are based on claims you have not provided any source for, and which are directly contradicted by the data we do have. It's made-up nonsense. That you're spending all your time complaining about the sources rather than the facts says all anyone needs to know.

I've demonstrated they aren't very reputable at all. Biased, too.

And if you're going to sit here and tell me I'm making claims without sources when I've made a few posts now where every second sentence is a link to a source... well. It's clear you don't want facts, you just want to feel good.