Do you believe a FLAT TAX is Fair? Why / Why not?

[Machismo]

Maybe you should learn what fairness is? What do you think we do with those taxes? Just piss it around and make a fire?

The idea of taxation is to fund ''petty'' stuff like roads and the freaking economy. You would not have freaking microsoft or apple if we lived in that crappy world you want.

What one person deems to be fair is often not the case for another.

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You're free to stop it any time. Just emigrate. That's how you express your legal denial of ongoing consent to taxation.

Children are not free to do so, meaning the government is doing it against their will.

[Vyuvarax]

Then that's my point, it's the government taking money from someone, whether they like it, , or not. The government is also saying they don't have the legal recourse to even stop it.

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Why not take it up with the people who took the money?

So you claim you own property but aren't willing to pay for the enforcement that protects your right to property? This is nutso.

[Doctor Amadeus]

If you fish out all the fish from the lake and there is none for anybody else I don’t give a fuck how you feel or what else you think others should do you say to get a fish.

Nah I say everyone is ok in taking your fish.

[Endus]

Children are not free to do so, meaning the government is doing it against their will.

Because their parents are making that decision for them. Same way your parents can make you go to bed at 9 even though you want to stay up.

[SL1200]

What one person deems to be fair is often not the case for another.

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Children are not free to do so, meaning the government is doing it against their will.

Children pay taxes?

[Machismo]

So you claim you own property but aren't willing to pay for the enforcement that protects your right to property? This is nutso.

I never said I'm not willing to pay for what I use.

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Because their parents are making that decision for them. Same way your parents can make you go to bed at 9 even though you want to stay up.

That government took away their will, and gave it to the parents. Once again, that is the government doing something against his or her will.

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Children pay taxes?

I did. I had a job at 11 years old. There's also the issue of sales taxes that people also pay.

[Kujako]

I never said I'm not willing to pay for what I use.

How are you on the Internet?

[Paperfox]

A flat tax would be still be fair if you said that every person can earn a small amount - say $500 - per month from all sources of income. Then everybody would have to pay the same rate - say 15% as OP said - on the first to the last $100 that person made per month.

If taxes are stealing, then what are you doing when you use the government's roads, schools, and all that stuff?

[Vyuvarax]

Where these arguments fall flat is that for anyone with low income any amount of tax is going to be too much for them as their base salary is hardly enough to make ends meet. Should that mean they shouldnt pay taxes at all and just get a free ride? How high should tax breaks for the poor be and how much do you increase tax rates on the wealthy because they worked hard, made good decisions and took risks to get their wealth? It's a climate that destroys entrepreneurial spirit. Why take risks if the outcome is that the state is taking your earnings to distribute it to the lazy and the poor?

Donald Trump had a completely free ride. Why are you mad at the poor paying no taxes and okay with someone having millions they didn't earn? Your concept of fairness is fucked up.

[patuxz]

Taxes AREN'T paid against your will. You implicitly consented, the same way you consented to abide by the law, by remaining resident in a country. A refusal to pay those taxes is a refusal to pay an amount you agreed to pay, and from which you benefit, because "reasons".

The same way I am also entitled by the constitution to receive welfare here in Europe.
That itself is a bigger problem than taxation. People have way too good rights here in Europe, which proposes a problem if people have no understanding of economics.
It gives dumb people access to this endless piggy bank.

I think that without re-introducing (extreme) poverty, the welfare system is going to collapse. More people need to start living with their parents again, share rooms instead of solo booking 800$ apartment all on welfare.
Of course we wouldn't want to see this happen, but it's clear when the numbers don't add up.
Dumb people have it way too easy and this is why rich people want to avoid taxes. Now I don't have a solution to this broken system, I can only follow the math and numbers. Person receiving like 1000-1200€/month doing nothing is not sustainable.
To keep it up, all you can do is raise taxes without solving the core issue.

I hate to even talk about this broken system but I know it's not sustainable.

If you're Norway and you have all that oil, or in other terms excessive wealth, you could keep the system up.

Oh, and person is not dumb if he receives welfare. It might be that person's only way to have a living. Some people abuse the system for sure.

[araine]

But how is it "unethical and unequitable?" Paying the same rate regardless of what you make seems like the fairest way to pay into a government tax system. How is it fair to force people who make more to pay a higher tax percentage? Shouldn't we be creating ways to help poor people become better off, rather than trying to make rich people poor?

Flat tax puts everyone on equal footing. As the poor / middle class people start to become better off in life, and make more money, so too does the raw dollars they pay into the system because they pay the equal % no matter the amount of money they make.

In this system people who make more PAY MORE. People who make less PAY LESS. Whats not equitable about that?

The difference is that 150 dollars a month for the really poor person needs to go to cover food on the table and roof over your head while for the mega rich making a million a year it is totally irrelevant to him if he pays 150k in taxes or 500k in taxes he still have enough fucking cash to drown in it if he wants to do that.

no harm whatsoever will be felt by the person making a million a month paying 500k a month in taxes he still can do whatever the fuck he wants in life being super rich while that 150 dollars a month is crippling the poor person to have to make the choice between food or rent this month.

which high lights the other problem in life percentage increases of wages, just useless and designed to keep poor people poor, you get a percentage increase yet everything you buy and need in life dont adjust by percentages they adjust by dollars and cents which is why things have more than doubled in cost and the wages havnt doubled since they where only increased by percentages sure if you make a million dollar a month and get a 2% pay raise thats more than enough to cover a 100 dollar increased food bill each month but do the same with 1000 dollar income and give yourself a fat 2 percent increase and see how far it gets you to cover that 100 dollar cost increase.

Really the failure of the right wingers to see this very obvious common sense economics is why we are so fucked as a country for the longterm

[Machismo]

How are you on the Internet?

I pay for it. It is a private transaction between two entities.

[Vyuvarax]

I did. I had a job at 11 years old. There's also the issue of sales taxes that people also pay.

Then it'd have been off the books I believe due to child labor laws, so you'd have also paid no taxes. Your shit stinks of desperation.

[SL1200]

I never said I'm not willing to pay for what I use.

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That government took away their will, and gave it to the parents. Once again, that is the government doing something against his or her will.

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I did. I had a job at 11 years old. There's also the issue of sales taxes that people also pay.

You had a job paying more than 6k a year at 11? That's impressive.

[Total Crica]

You had a job paying more than 6k a year at 11? That's impressive.

And worthy of emancipation and gain the ability to be considered an adult and fight the "government taxers" if he is able to convince a judge how impressive he is at 11!

[Height]

Nope. It's easier to make money when you have it and the stuff the poor buy tends to be necessities, while the super rich are planning for their sixth vacation while the people they hired do the work for them anyway. The rich don't need money to survive but the poor do.

I think taxes should be exponential. Actually, I would like it to be more smoothly exponential than have any hard breaks.

[Cæli]

No because low income means you pay more of your income relative to someone who is rich. Someone who has $1000 and pays $150 in tax is more affected than someone who has $10000 and pay $1500.

would it be fair to have the taxes beeing flat but applied on ("total money gained" - "amount of money required to survive decently on rich countries") ?
10000-2000=1200 taxes
1000-2000=0 taxes
2200-2000=30 taxes
100000-2000=15000 taxes

gotta pay for army protection and education

[SL1200]

Fuck the flat tax. Make the sales taxes progressive along with all other taxes and fees.

[Vyuvarax]

Nope. It's easier to make money when you have it and the stuff the poor buy tends to be necessities, while the super rich are planning for their sixth vacation while the people they hired do the work for them anyway. The rich don't need money to survive but the poor do.

I think taxes should be exponential. Actually, I would like it to be more smoothly exponential than have any hard breaks.

Agreed. If you make X amount, I'd like to see a tax of 80-90%+.

[Theodarzna]

I pay for it. It is a private transaction between two entities.

That purely transactional relationship only exists because of a big bad State entity that actively socializes and conditions people to behave in a purely anonymous shallow transactional relationship.

Your AnCap fantasy cannot exist without funding.