McCain VS Trump

[Clone]

So McCain made a speech at Philadelphia yesterday, calling out recent politics, but without mentioning any names.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...us-nationalism

In what appeared to be a thinly veiled reference to politics in the Age of Trump, Sen. John McCain on Monday warned Americans against "half-baked, spurious nationalism," calling the abandonment of U.S. global leadership "unpatriotic."

Speaking in Philadelphia, where he was being honored with the Liberty Medal by the National Constitution Center, McCain did not mention the president by name, but his words appeared to be aimed at Trump and his administration.

"To abandon the ideals we have advanced around the globe, to refuse the obligations of international leadership for the sake of some half-baked, spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems," he said, "is as unpatriotic as an attachment to any other tired dogma of the past that Americans consigned to the ash heap of history."

In an apparent reference to white supremacists who sparked violence in Charlottesville, Va., in August, McCain said: "We live in a land of ideals, not blood and soil."

The Nazi slogan "blood and soil" was shouted by tiki-torch-wielding white supremacists in Charlottesville.

"We are the custodians of those ideals at home and their champion abroad," he said. "We have done great good in the world. That leadership has had its costs, but we have become incomparably powerful and wealthy as we did."

"We have a moral obligation to continue in our just cause, and we would bring more than shame on ourselves if we don't," McCain continued. "We will not thrive in a world where our leadership and ideals are absent. We wouldn't deserve to."

The chairman of the center's Board of Trustees, former Vice President Joe Biden, presented the medal to McCain.

Biden, the Delaware Democrat who once served alongside McCain in the Senate, said: "We often argued — sometimes passionately. But we believed in each other's patriotism and the sincerity of each other's convictions. We believed in the institution we were privileged to serve in."

Biden alluded to McCain's torture during more than five years spent as a prisoner of war after his U.S. Navy A-4 was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967.

"John, you have broken many times, physically and otherwise, and you have always grown stronger, but what you don't really understand in my humble opinion is how much courage you give the rest of us looking at you," Biden said.

McCain was diagnosed with brain cancer in July.

Then Trump fires back. Maybe it was about him, maybe it wasn't.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41655116

"People have to be careful because at some point I fight back," Mr Trump told a Washington radio station on Tuesday.

On Monday, the senator deplored "half-baked, spurious nationalism" in a perceived slight at Mr Trump's so-called America First policy.

A former prisoner of war, Mr McCain was diagnosed with brain cancer in July.

"I'm being very, very nice but at some point I fight back and it won't be pretty," Mr Trump told WMAL on Tuesday in response to a question about the senator's remarks.

Mr McCain was asked by journalists about Mr Trump's remark, and he responded: "I have faced tougher adversaries."

Receiving the Liberty Medal in Philadelphia a day earlier, the six-term senator from Arizona warned against the US surrendering its international leadership.

Mr McCain was applauded as he said: "To fear the world we have organised and led for three-quarters of a century, to abandon the ideals we have advanced around the globe, to refuse the obligations of international leadership and our duty to remain the last best hope of Earth for the sake of some half-baked, spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems is as unpatriotic as an attachment to any other tired dogma of the past that Americans consigned to the ash heap of history.

"We live in a land made of ideals, not blood and soil," he continued.

"We have done great good in the world. That leadership has had its costs, but we have become incomparably powerful and wealthy as we did."

John McCain, in the twilight of a career in public service that spans four decades, is telling America how he really feels. He's not happy about what Donald Trump is doing to the Republican Party - and the nation.

This isn't the first time Mr McCain has criticised the president, but these are some of his most direct comments - ones offered after the senator matched words with actions, voting twice against healthcare reform bills the president was pushing.

Just last week another Republican senator, Bob Corker, verbally sparred with the president. Like Mr McCain, Mr Corker - who recently announced his retirement - has probably faced voters for the last time. Both are liberated from any ballot-box backlash from angry Trump supporters.

Their criticisms will no doubt sting the president. Until Republican politicians in power - and those who want to stay there - join the public critiques, however, these swipes, no matter how direct, may have little lasting significance.

The Liberty Medal is an award recognising leadership in pursuit of freedom whose previous recipients have included Hillary Clinton, Steven Spielberg, Muhammad Ali and Tony Blair.

Mr McCain was presented with the medal by former US Vice-President Joe Biden, whose eldest son died from the same type of cancer Mr McCain now has.

Mr Biden praised the "courage and loyalty" of his former colleague and ex-Navy pilot.

Mr McCain recently torpedoed Trump-backed Republican attempts to repeal and replace Obamacare, the 2010 healthcare law.

According to political website Axios, the US president mocked Mr McCain's thumbs-down gesture as he rejected one of the bills.

Mr McCain has limited mobility of his arms as a result of his injuries from being shot down and tortured in a North Vietnamese prison.

During his presidential campaign, Mr Trump was criticised when he said Mr McCain was not a war hero, adding: "I like people who weren't captured."

Then McCain responds with "I have faced tougher adversaries."
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...er-adversaries

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) was awarded the Liberty Medal by the National Constitution Center on Monday night, and delivered remarks that sounded like a not-so-subtle shot at Donald Trump. The veteran senator said that “some half-baked, spurious nationalism” should be considered “as unpatriotic as an attachment to any other tired dogma of the past that Americans consigned to the ash heap of history.”

Asked yesterday whether this was a rebuke of his party’s president, McCain added that he was really referring to “America Firsters” – which only reinforced impressions that Trump and his followers were his intended targets.

As the Washington Post reported, the president was asked about this during a radio interview yesterday.

“People have to be careful because at some point, I fight back,” Trump said in an interview Tuesday with WMAL, a D.C. radio station.

“I’m being very nice. I’m being very, very nice. But at some point, I fight back, and it won’t be pretty,” Trump said.

Soon after, McCain didn’t sound overly concerned about the president’s warnings. “I have faced tougher adversaries,” he said of Trump.

This has the benefit of being true. As the Associated Press noted, McCain “spent five-and-a-half years in a Vietnam prisoner of war camp and is battling brain cancer.” Not to put too fine a point on this, but there’s literally nothing Donald Trump could realistically do to intimidate the Republican senator.

What is it, exactly, that Trump believes “won’t be pretty”? Does he intended to publish some mean tweets? Question McCain’s military service again? Threaten to support a primary rival for McCain 2022?

Under the circumstances – it’s still a 52-48 Senate – Trump needs McCain far more than McCain needs Trump.

For his part, Barack Obama, who traded shots with the Arizona senator during their 2008 race, tweeted on Monday night, “I’m grateful to [McCain] for his lifetime of service to our country. Congratulations, John, on receiving this year’s Liberty Medal.”

Sometimes, a little decency goes a long way.

[Breccia]

Then McCain responds with "I have faced tougher adversaries."

Ain't that an understatement. McCain is a fucking war hero and he's fighting off brain cancer.

[cubby]

Just more evidence that McCain is awesome and Obama is still the class act he's always been. Trump-the-shitshow continues to prove only that he is a man-child in way over his head from day one.

[Edge-]

Then McCain responds with "I have faced tougher adversaries."
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...er-adversaries

But has he faced bone spurs?

[schwarzkopf]

McCain is a hero - he is a hero I disagree with on most issues, but he is a hero. He is rational and a fighter.

Trump is not even human - by any reasonable definition of the word.

I find it offensive to even have McCain and Trump opened up for comparison.

The left's greatest mistake was in thinking Bush and McCain were 'bad' or 'wrong' or 'crazy'... Trump has really shown the rational folk the quality in GoP politicians we now yearn for.

[Felya]

But has he faced bone spurs?

Bone spurs? How about the sacrifice of being rich, is like your son dying defending the country?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donal...ry?id=41015051

Pressed by Stephanopoulos to identify the sacrifices he made for his country, Trump said, "I think I've made a lot of sacrifices. I work very, very hard. I've created thousands and thousands of jobs, tens of thousands of jobs, built great structures. I've had tremendous success. I think I've done a lot."

Trump also cited his work on behalf of veterans, including helping build a Vietnam War memorial in Manhattan and raising "millions of dollars" for vets.

Paul Rieckoff, the founder and CEO of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, a nonpartisan group with close to 200,000 members, said, "For anyone to compare their 'sacrifice' to a Gold Star family member is insulting, foolish and ignorant. Especially someone who has never served himself and has no children serving. Our country has been at war for a decade and a half, and the truth is most Americans have sacrificed nothing. Most of them are smart and grounded enough to admit it."

[downnola]

The left's greatest mistake was in thinking Bush and McCain were 'bad' or 'wrong' or 'crazy'... Trump has really shown the rational folk the quality in GoP politicians we now yearn for.

I want to believe that, I really do.

[NM 156]

Paul Rieckoff, the founder and CEO of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, a nonpartisan group with close to 200,000 members, said, "For anyone to compare their 'sacrifice' to a Gold Star family member is insulting, foolish and ignorant. Especially someone who has never served himself and has no children serving. Our country has been at war for a decade and a half, and the truth is most Americans have sacrificed nothing. Most of them are smart and grounded enough to admit it."


I've sacrificed everything, what have you given?

[Zarc]

I want to believe that, I really do.

I never viewed McCain as any of those things. He seems alright. I'd label him a Conservative liberal, I can respect that.

Bush was goofy and a poor President. Should probobly have had McCain in 2000. :P

Trump is in a league of his own compared to those guys, he is bat-shit crazy and a total disgrace.

[Pendulous]

Bone spurs? How about the sacrifice of being rich, is like your son dying defending the country?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donal...ry?id=41015051

So, Trump invented the word "fake", and now he doesn't know the definition of "sacrifice". Nice.

[Edge-]

So, Trump invented the word "fake", and now he doesn't know the definition of "sacrifice". Nice.

He also invented the phrase "prime the pump". He's been using Hillary's really bad time traveling magic to go back and invent words/phrases without telling any of us!

[Realitytrembles]

Trump's a dbag, without question. That being said, the anti-internationalism that Bannon proposes is right up my alley. Maybe the only thing I agree with him on.

The UN, the WTO, NAFTA ( and every other free trade agreement), "entangling alliances" ( thank you George Washington), and McCain's beloved "international leadership" ....

All I can say is /barf .

There is no provision of the Constitution that calls on the US to expend American blood and treasure for the benefit of all mankind.

Quite frankly, f all mankind. US citizens are my first concern, with the UK and Canada a distant second and third. Everyone else can go rot. The US should continue to ensure that its military ( and in particular its nuclear deterrent) is second to none. That combined with our geographic position will make us unassailable.

Pull out of all the crap and clubs we're in worldwide, build a military that is a metaphorical wall around the Americas bristling with death, and tell the rest of the world to go f off I say.

Eventually like it always does things will go sideways again without the US in the room making people play nice. And then,

" The world will look up and shout 'save us'. And I'll whisper 'no'." --- Rorschach

An ungrateful planet does not deserve one more US dollar or one more drop of American blood shed for its sake. Without the US, the world would now be saluting one of these 3 flags: the swastika, the hammer&sickle, or the rising sun.

[Darththeo]

Trump's a dbag, without question. That being said, the anti-internationalism that Bannon proposes is right up my alley. Maybe the only thing I agree with him on.

The UN, the WTO, NAFTA ( and every other free trade agreement), "entangling alliances" ( thank you George Washington), and McCain's beloved "international leadership" ....

All I can say is /barf .

There is no provision of the Constitution that calls on the US to expend American blood and treasure for the benefit of all mankind.

Quite frankly, f all mankind. US citizens are my first concern, with the UK and Canada a distant second and third. Everyone else can go rot. The US should continue to ensure that its military ( and in particular its nuclear deterrent) is second to none. That combined with our geographic position will make us unassailable.

Pull out of all the crap and clubs we're in worldwide, build a military that is a metaphorical wall around the Americas bristling with death, and tell the rest of the world to go f off I say.

Eventually like it always does things will go sideways again without the US in the room making people play nice. And then,

" The world will look up and shout 'save us'. And I'll whisper 'no'." --- Rorschach

An ungrateful planet does not deserve one more US dollar or one more drop of American blood shed for its sake. Without the US, the world would now be saluting one of these 3 flags: the swastika, the hammer&sickle, or the rising sun.

So you would like to see America destroy itself by being isolationist and to allow threats to the US to develop unchecked ... George Washington could never have imagined the world we have now, his view on alliance is irrelevant. Those that isolate themselves wither and die a slow death. I am sorry, the United States cannot just step away.

And there is nothing our "geographic" position can do to make us "unassailable"

[Gestopft]

There is no provision of the Constitution that calls on the US to expend American blood and treasure for the benefit of all mankind.

Luckily, we don't do it because it benefits other countries. We do it because it benefits us.

- - - Updated - - -

Without the US, the world would now be saluting one of these 3 flags: the swastika, the hammer&sickle, or the rising sun.

Case in point.

[Realitytrembles]

Luckily, we don't do it because it benefits other countries. We do it because it benefits us.

- - - Updated - - -



Case in point.

You'd probably see a world in a three-way cold war: USA vs Japan vs Nazi Germany.

In that case, the rule would be: Do what you want elsewhere, but any outside meddling in the Americas will be met with nuclear weapons.

The US does not exist to save the collective behinds of an ungrateful, whining world. If they don't like how we do things, they should take care of their own problems. Hence, the Rorschach quote.

[Z-Man]

But has he faced bone spurs?

Quantum bone spurs. One minute they're there, then next they're not. Very debilitating when not playing golf.

[zorkuus]

Quantum bone spurs. One minute they're there, then next they're not. Very debilitating when not playing golf.

They can also jump from one foot to the other. Very sneaky bone spurs, believe me.

[Gestopft]

The US does not exist to save the collective behinds of an ungrateful, whining world. If they don't like how we do things, they should take care of their own problems. Hence, the Rorschach quote.

Again: it has nothing to do with "saving them." We do it because (in general) it benefits us to so.

And don't get me wrong; I'm not unsympathetic to your position- I'd gladly trade some of our guns for butter, and I'd really rather us stop dicking around in the Middle East so much, but the post-WW2 order that we are at the head of isn't about Captain America saving the world. It's about the (relative) peace and prosperity that greatly benefits us.

[Mayhem]

Again: it has nothing to do with "saving them." We do it because (in general) it benefits us to so.

And don't get me wrong; I'm not unsympathetic to your position- I'd gladly trade some of our guns for butter, and I'd really rather us stop dicking around in the Middle East so much, but the post-WW2 order that we are at the head of isn't about Captain America saving the world. It's about the (relative) peace and prosperity that greatly benefits us.

Any bets on how often you have to repeat that line befor he gets it?

[Lynarii]

Any bets on how often you have to repeat that line befor he gets it?

Forever. These people don't understand how beneficial the US' leadership in the world has been to the US. It's why the US has stayed the richest, most powerful, nation in the world. The US uses things like foreign aid and peacekeeping missions to secure resources and economic markets for itself, and deny the same to those it dislikes. That's literally how the Cold War was won, the US was able to successfully limit Russia's economic power by encircling it with countries allied to the US. That's how we got things like the Taliban and Saddam Hussein in the first place, the US put them there to keep Russia out.

What scares me is that the US conservatives tend to fall back on the idea that they will just declare nuclear war with the entire world if there's any indication that another country may surpass the US in influence. That's their only method of foreign relation, "Do as we say or be nuked". It's like they get off at night to dreams of WW3.