(SPOILERS ) How Powerful is Argus the Unmaker? Like, seriously?

[Aucald]

You know what would be really great ? Introducing villains before patch/expansion that they will eat shit. I mean, its bad all around since after wotlk era but WoD was possibly worst in that regard with failures of draenor just appearing with WWE intros in taanan and then just dying.

WoD had a lot of flaws, but I would definitely agree that that was among them. I know what they were trying to achieve with these somewhat overwrought introductions, but the net effect didn't go over so well. They banked on the callback cred to WC1 and WC2 - a kind of "here are these characters you know and love of old, now in a fresh now WoW-based setting" without really understanding that A.) it wasn't the same context, and B.) they were basically going to serve as raw fodder for the PC's advancement through Draenor.

The end result wasn't what they were banking on at all, and essentially served to tear down those characters' legacies (such as they were).

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

...
Realy? Again? How many times do I have to repeat that Arthas is much weaker than his fans think? Other final bosses will wipe it into powder
Deathwing
Kil'jaeden
Archimonde

I respectfully disagree. I think Arthas in Lich King Mode would be able to turn those three into cookie crumbs.

I'm sorry but even Cho'gall is stronger than LK and Blizz confirmed that Illidan is stronger than LK, same for Algalon, Gul'dan and Xavius.

No, it's true. Check the blue posts.

That doesn't seem right. I remember Blizz confirming the Lich King could wipe his armored ass with any of them. Check the blue posts.

[Arrashi]

WoD had a lot of flaws, but I would definitely agree that that was among them. I know what they were trying to achieve with these somewhat overwrought introductions, but the net effect didn't go over so well. They banked on the callback cred to WC1 and WC2 - a kind of "here are these characters you know and love of old, now in a fresh now WoW-based setting" without really understanding that A.) it wasn't the same context, and B.) they were basically going to serve as raw fodder for the PC's advancement through Draenor.

The end result wasn't what they were banking on at all, and essentially served to tear down those characters' legacies (such as they were).

What makes it even better was how "super duper epic" iron horde army marching on karabor looked in trailer....and how slight annoyance they were in game.

[MechaCThun]

I respectfully disagree. I think Arthas in Lich King Mode would be able to turn those three into cookie crumbs.

Are you actually AdmiralBulldog?

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

Are you actually AdmiralBulldog?

Just searched him up and it's some dota 2 streamer. Nope not him and never heard of him.

[Eazy]

That doesn't seem right. I remember Blizz confirming the Lich King could wipe his armored ass with any of them. Check the blue posts.

Nope, the books, the lore, the game proves that I have right. They can wipe the floor with LK any single day.

[TheFirstOnes]

We're talking about Argus the Unmaker here, not Arthas the dead farmed...guy...

[Doomeye]

Argus is so powerful that you, together with Illidan and everyone else, titans and all that, can`t beat him! He wipes the raid... Argus the Raid Wiper... ok that sounded different from what I expected.

[TheFirstOnes]

Argus is so powerful that you, together with Illidan and everyone else, titans and all that, can`t beat him! He wipes the raid... Argus the Raid Wiper... ok that sounded different from what I expected.

Hence why he's called Argus the Unmaker.

He...UNMAKES the raids.

BA DUM TSSH! *Crickets*

[Aucald]

I think what killed that part of WoD was orc panic. Partway through development they believed the orc fatigue would be too much and then they remade all of Gorgrond (which if had been handled well would probably had made us far more familiar with Blackhand (and likely Orgrim), they cut back on Orgrim's plot in Talador, cut Kargath surviving. One bad decision after another.

I don't know if it would've been possible to do a body-swerve like that mid-deployment of the game, but it does certainly feel that way. WoD's story has a strong sense of being chopped and lowered halfway though, a definite sharp and acute turn from wherever it was heading to the ultimate direction of Legion. I got the sense that there was what I like to think of an Alpha and a Beta story-arc at play, perhaps a strong difference between two camps in the developer pool? At some point in the delivery of post-expansion content patches the Beta team's ideology won the day and WoD essentially ended prematurely and pivoted toward the Gul'dan/Burning Legion storyline.

Or maybe it's just that sunk cost fallacy rearing its ugly head. WoD had a lot of potential that ended up cut and scrapped on the cutting-room floor - Farahlon, portions of the Garrison concept, capitols, possibly Goria, Shattrath, etc. etc. The world feels far larger than it is actually is from a gameplay standpoint, and stands out as the most curiously empty of WoW's many expansion content zones.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

Argus the Unmaker

vs

Illidan
Lich King Arthas
Garrosh Powered up by Yshaarj's Heart
Deathwing
Archimonde

Condition - Argus isn't allowed to cast "End of All Things" so he must fight them head on. But at the same time, the Pantheon's Spirits also won't be aiding the Team.

Which side wins? Argus the Unmaker or the Dream Team?

[Justpassing]

Why does every thread turn into this shit?

[Nihilan]

Hence why he's called Argus the Unmaker.

He...UNMAKES the raids.

BA DUM TSSH! *Crickets*

Right at the P3 transition at 20% remaining HP Argus casts an uninterruptible ability that disconnects five randomly chosen raid members. At least one of whom will be a tank.

The raid group shortly disintegrates.

Mythic Argus remains undefeated forever.

[Justpassing]

Right at the P3 transition at 20% remaining HP Argus casts an uninterruptible ability that disconnects five randomly chosen raid members. At least one of whom will be a tank.

The raid group shortly disintegrates.

Mythic Argus remains undefeated forever.

Go 3/4 tanks, Mythic Argus is defeated.

[Rathbourne]

WoD was the expansion with the single most potential and it all went down the drain.Regarding Orc fatigue they could have brought in the Gorian empire or the Apexis civilisation to break it up and then end the expansion with the Legions coming.Infact i've always thought the best way to end a wierd alternate Draenor storyline was to have the Legion destroy Draenor,showing their true might. This sets up the next expansion on its own.Players can go back to a Cavern's of time/timewalking type version of Draenor provided by the Bronze flight to remind us the true horror of facing the Burning Legion's full might.

And i still cant believe regular posters take LarryWithTheWeatherReport's view of the Lich King as anything but trolling.

- - - Updated - - -

Argus the Unmaker

vs

Illidan
Lich King Arthas
Garrosh Powered up by Yshaarj's Heart
Deathwing
Archimonde

Condition - Argus isn't allowed to cast "End of All Things" so he must fight them head on. But at the same time, the Pantheon's Spirits also won't be aiding the Team.

Which side wins? Argus the Unmaker or the Dream Team?

The Unmaker stomps.None of them are anywhere close to a Titan,even a weakened one,let alone one empowered by the Dark Titan.

[TheFirstOnes]

Argus the Unmaker

vs

Illidan
Lich King Arthas
Garrosh Powered up by Yshaarj's Heart
Deathwing
Archimonde

Condition - Argus isn't allowed to cast "End of All Things" so he must fight them head on. But at the same time, the Pantheon's Spirits also won't be aiding the Team.

Which side wins? Argus the Unmaker or the Dream Team?

Argus.

Just...just...Argus.

[Deleted]

Right at the P3 transition at 20% remaining HP Argus casts an uninterruptible ability that disconnects five randomly chosen raid members. At least one of whom will be a tank.

The raid group shortly disintegrates.

Mythic Argus remains undefeated forever.

Main Tank is forced to build a RL lagswitch to counter this ability.

[OIS]

WoD was the expansion with the single most potential and it all went down the drain.Regarding Orc fatigue they could have brought in the Gorian empire or the Apexis civilisation to break it up and then end the expansion with the Legions coming.Infact i've always thought the best way to end a wierd alternate Draenor storyline was to have the Legion destroy Draenor,showing their true might. This sets up the next expansion on its own.Players can go back to a Cavern's of time/timewalking type version of Draenor provided by the Bronze flight to remind us the true horror of facing the Burning Legion's full might.

That could indeed have worked. It would be amazing, in fact. It's so silly that Blizzard wasted pretty much their only chance at breathing some fresh air to the story with a villain victory. Instead we got this Burning Legion who are effectively getting curbstomped in their own turf. It's almost infuriating.

[Evangeliste]

Its just a destruction themed ability.

My god,dks have a sword and ability called apocalypse, just because they use it doesnt suddenly call forth an actual apocalypse.

Problem with that is apocalpyse has different meanings to who you speak to. Though generally it does mean the end of man, not sure how Taurens, Night Elves and such will be included if you mean in a quite literal sense, otherwise even then it's just activating judgement day which will have an aftermath.
Compared to 'End of Creation' that literally means there's not even space, there is no aftermath because there's nothing existing to have that affect or effect. With apocalypse there is something afterwards with it being judgement day. Eternal Hell or Heaven for every soul. I guess for WoW it would be everyone is in Shadowlands.

- - - Updated - - -

That could indeed have worked. It would be amazing, in fact. It's so silly that Blizzard wasted pretty much their only chance at breathing some fresh air to the story with a villain victory. Instead we got this Burning Legion who are effectively getting curbstomped in their own turf. It's almost infuriating.

But they are being curbstomped because basically the head of it all aka Sargeras clearly gives zero fucks anymore.

It's been functioning, successfully taking planets, ending life and more... Has been been built up to self sustain over countless millennia now that Sargeras will automatically underestimate us - not realising that the denizens of Azeroth are empowered by her really (like the Well of Eternity and Night Elves... Not sure if you know about what Illidan, a Night Elf infused with Fel does to Sargeras ). He also continues to look the other way when the Burning Legion clearly are faltering by the scene with sending Aggramar. Sargeras is so focused on his current task with the 'circle almost complete' he's going to watch the moment his Dark Pantheon ring true in completion. And no one, even his own failing army is going to distract him.

And basically not stepping in whatsoever until the Argus fight where we are fucking with his pet project and at the Seat which holds all of his prized militant possessions. On Mythic raid setting admittedly. But even then - the Burning Legion are not worth his time but the Dark Pantheon he's making are. The Titans malformed souls are much better units than the whole of the Burning Legion. Burning Legion are like the expendable pawns on a chessboard - meanwhile Sargeras is making Bishops, Rooks, a Queen and more that will basically trump Burning Legion in power level alone. And in fact pretty most of his opponents.
The Pantheon already do trump as demonstrated by killing an Old God already and being able to toe to toe with the Void Lords. So being Dark and in his way of thinking is just win-win supreme. It's why he does what he does in Silithus, he's trying to turn Azeroth like he did with Argus. Argus as I said was Sargeras's pet project and he succeeded in malforming his soul thus he is doing the same to the Titan souls he caught and being poked by the Shivarra.

The dude has found something totally better and pawns that even the Void Lords want and Sargeras is getting instead. Sargeras also is trying to get Azeroth in the only way he knows how by basically turning them into complete mentally fucked up messes that Azeroth is in some degree already in, which will give the Void Lords the willies.

See where I'm going with this at least? XD Sadly, Blizzard again made the suggestion subtle so without Sargeras literally saying "fuck Burning Legion I have better", it's just up to observing.

[TheFirstOnes]

Problem with that is apocalpyse has different meanings to who you speak to. Though generally it does mean the end of man, not sure how Taurens, Night Elves and such will be included if you mean in a quite literal sense, otherwise even then it's just activating judgement day which will have an aftermath.
Compared to 'End of Creation' that literally means there's not even space, there is no aftermath because there's nothing existing to have that affect or effect. With apocalypse there is something afterwards with it being judgement day. Eternal Hell or Heaven for every soul. I guess for WoW it would be everyone is in Shadowlands.

- - - Updated - - -

But they are being curbstomped because basically the head of it all aka Sargeras clearly gives zero fucks anymore.

It's been functioning, successfully taking planets, ending life and more... Has been been built up to self sustain over countless millennia now that Sargeras will automatically underestimate us - not realising that the denizens of Azeroth are empowered by her really (like the Well of Eternity and Night Elves... Not sure if you know about what Illidan, a Night Elf infused with Fel does to Sargeras ). He also continues to look the other way when the Burning Legion clearly are faltering by the scene with sending Aggramar. Sargeras is so focused on his current task with the 'circle almost complete' he's going to watch the moment his Dark Pantheon ring true in completion. And no one, even his own failing army is going to distract him.

And basically not stepping in whatsoever until the Argus fight where we are fucking with his pet project and at the Seat which holds all of his prized militant possessions. On Mythic raid setting admittedly. But even then - the Burning Legion are not worth his time but the Dark Pantheon he's making are. The Titans malformed souls are much better units than the whole of the Burning Legion. Burning Legion are like the expendable pawns on a chessboard - meanwhile Sargeras is making Bishops, Rooks, a Queen and more that will basically trump Burning Legion in power level alone. And in fact pretty most of his opponents.
The Pantheon already do trump as demonstrated by killing an Old God already and being able to toe to toe with the Void Lords. So being Dark and in his way of thinking is just win-win supreme. It's why he does what he does in Silithus, he's trying to turn Azeroth like he did with Argus. Argus as I said was Sargeras's pet project and he succeeded in malforming his soul thus he is doing the same to the Titan souls he caught and being poked by the Shivarra.

The dude has found something totally better and pawns that even the Void Lords want and Sargeras is getting instead. Sargeras also is trying to get Azeroth in the only way he knows how by basically turning them into complete mentally fucked up messes that Azeroth is in some degree already in, which will give the Void Lords the willies.

See where I'm going with this at least? XD Sadly, Blizzard again made the suggestion subtle so without Sargeras literally saying "fuck Burning Legion I have better", it's just up to observing.

What you just here, is why Sargeras is my favorite WoW Villain.