When does flirting become sexual harassment?

[Mistame]

By this definition I can slap a random woman's ass and get away with it.

Depends on if it's considered "assault". But if it's only once, it's literally not harassment.

Because just as many shallow dudes.

Meh, "shallow" is a crutch for rejection.

[melodramocracy]

When in doubt, use the Rock Test.

Apply this everywhere, and stay celibate until your last breath.

[Felicia]

What a nonsense. I had ugly guys flirting with me who'd stop at the first sign of disinterest which was totally okay for me.
I had really handsome guys getting waaay to touchy for my taste too soon and didn't like it.

Generally speaking, I'm not against touches per se, but they are not okay when I don't know the other person. Good acquaintances and friends (aka people that have a certain minimum level of trust), go on.

Oh and I know men who really don't like being touched by women they don't know either. This goes totally both ways.

This.

The few times I've been sexually harassed were in the work place by guys that were relatively good looking. Appearance doesn't matter, and it's a two-way street. Had a guy that always commented on my ass, and tried to grab it a few times. I asked him to stop repeatedly, and even talked to my manager. But nothing ever came of it. I quit because I didn't feel like dealing with him anymore. Had another guy who would always hit on me even when I didn't flirt back then got mad at me for rejecting him. If I want to flirt with you, I will. Just because YOU think you're attractive doesn't mean I do. Just leave me alone, dammit.

Men get sexually harassed all the time, too, and it drives me up the damn wall when it's barely acknowledged. This problem is built on double standards, and it's unfair to ANYONE who's a victim. I'm extremely grateful I haven't been subjected to it more.

[bowchikabow]

Ugly/creepy guy = sexual harrasment

Handsome guy = flirting

I made this same argument in a social group I post in. Part of the bigger of: There is no objective standard when it comes to what defines Harassment. In many cases, it comes down to who is making the advance. Bradley Cooper is much less likely to get hit with sexual harassment than.. say.. Michael Moore. While there are some very clearly defined areas that qualify, there isn't a unifying standard. According to Google Consumer Survey, 17.9% of 18 to 34yr old people found their significant other at work. Which means that at some point, it was ok for someone to walk up to someone else and exihibit behavior intended to attract a member of the opposite sex (or same sex). That same person, had they done it to someone else, might have been subject to harassment.

My standard on this is somewhat counter-culture, but is a safe standard: If you do not know the person, do not simply initiate physical contact or engage in directed conversation with the purpose of engaging in romantic behaviors. Be respectfully verbal about your intentions. Heed the persons response ( If he/she says no thank you, or not interested.. don't treat it as them playing hard to get).

Not hard. Also, I like Ben Shapiro's stance on this: Physical contact of the opposite sex in the work place outside of a handshake is inappropriate.

[FurryRedVixen]

..watch the lifetime station.. it makes no sense.

[BuckSparkles]

Leave flirting outside the workplace, great way to get fired.

All it takes is the word of one woman to ruin your career, and who the hell will disagree with them?

[pateuvasiliu]

What a nonsense. I had ugly guys flirting with me who'd stop at the first sign of disinterest which was totally okay for me.
I had really handsome guys getting waaay to touchy for my taste too soon and didn't like it.

Generally speaking, I'm not against touches per se, but they are not okay when I don't know the other person. Good acquaintances and friends (aka people that have a certain minimum level of trust), go on.

Oh and I know men who really don't like being touched by women they don't know either. This goes totally both ways.

They were just bad at flirting, you're meant to mention you're rich first.

On topic, ignore any replies like this one.

It's really simple, women don't want to be seen courted by ugly dudes, because in their mind it lowers their value in the eyes of the hot dudes, which they want.

It's the same principle as you not wanting to be friends with a totally ugly/unpopular/awkward person, association makes you look bad too.

- - - Updated - - -

Leave flirting outside the workplace, great way to get fired.

All it takes is the word of one woman to ruin your career, and who the hell will disagree with them?

That's why you go to a decent country where feminism hasn't plagued the minds of everyone.

[BuckSparkles]

That's why you go to a decent country where feminism hasn't plagued the minds of everyone.

The West is already infected pretty heavily by feminism. Not sure where else?

[Fluffernut]

Given how harassment is completely personal and subjective too, you're not really making your case here.

Erm no. If someone says no, I am not interested and you keep - wait for it - harassing them, it's DING DING DING harassment!

[helmaroc]

How come many individuals in this thread are so hyperbolic? Does anyone get out and actually observe interactions between people or at least have friends or a social circle? Flirting is set aside for appropriate environments but before flirting you at least have to talk the person and break the ice in a way that's not pushy. If you just start flirting with some stranger right off the bat they are probably going to be uncomfortable attractive or not

Shit I've seen attractive dudes get shot down at clubs/bars because they came on too strong and this happens a lot because they get a little too confident lol. Some guys get too persistent after the rejection and at this point its harassment. Non conventionally attractive people will have a harder time engaging but plenty have been successful just by sharing the same interests with the women/men they were talking too.

You should at least know what kind of woman you're going for before you initiate anything as flirting right off the bat is risky for anyone. There's a time and place for everything as you've heard millions of times.

[pateuvasiliu]

The West is already infected pretty heavily by feminism. Not sure where else?

Europe is much milder than the US. In the US it's fucking madness, I still remember those cases where a woman lied a dude raped her but the university kicked him out anyway.

Like, Christ. This shit would cause me to stab someone.

Where I live there's no PC and madness like this would be investigated properly.

[Dwarfhamster]

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about this. If the girl says no or is not interested, stop. If you persist even after she's made it clear she's not interested, you're crossing into harassment. I swear some of you have no tact or simply cannot pick up on social cues, or are horrible at communicating with the opposite gender.

Edited to add: Looks don't have much to play into this. If the guy is attractive, maybe the initial tolerance of idiocy is a bit higher but tolerance can still quickly run out.

[endersblade]

Ugly/creepy guy = sexual harrasment

Handsome guy = flirting

First rule of flirting: Be attractive.

Second rule of flirting: Don't be unattractive.

This 100%. Some girl walks by in a completely inappropriate slutty outfit? Ugly guy says "wow, that dress makes you look beautiful!" Girl's like "Ugh, sexual harassment!" Hot guy says "damn bitch, dat dress makes me wanna take you home and fuck you all night!" Girl's like "d'awww sweet thang, keep talkin'!"

[Scathbais]

If you approach someone to speak with them several times, being told to stop each time, you can be fined for general harassment.

It has to be disturbing or threatening.

[Deleted]

When in doubt, use the Rock Test.

So ask for autograph and a selfie? Sounds like a good plan and not creepy at all when interacting with random women.

[Daten-shi]

It has to be disturbing or threatening.

Approaching someone several times while being told to stop each time is an act of disturbing one's peace of mind.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

In general, women are fucking insane so it's impossible to determine. Society doesn't help much either; women can do whatever they want without repercussion, but if a man does exactly the same thing everyone jumps to her defense. Example.

Either leave the United States or become a monk.

[Total Crica]

In general, women are fucking insane so it's impossible to determine. Society doesn't help much either; women can do whatever they want without repercussion, but if a man does exactly the same thing everyone jumps to her defense. Example.

Either leave the United States or become a monk.

Insane? No means no, regardless if someone is sane or not that says it. Are you saying that if you believe someone is insane and they say no, you are going to continue to try to have sex with them?

Is it shitty that no one defends that man? Sure, 100%.

They didn't help him because they believe he can shut down the harassment on his own, but they will help her because they believe she can't shut down the harassment on her own. US society sees women as weak and needing help and they see men as strong and not needing help.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

There was this guy during college, he was several years older than me (10+). He would always act flirtatious, but I assumed it was his personality. In any case, I've never actually answered his advances.

One day, I'm working on my home computer when he starts chatting with me. During the conversation, he becomes more and more sexual, at some point, I just get uneasy and tell him so. He answers with a dick pick. When I call him on it, he says it was for someone else and he didn't intend me to have it. He already has a boyfriend on top of this, by the way.

In any case, things go fine for a while, until he does the same thing again. At this point, I go and reach a few of my friends, take a snip of my screen and tell him to stop, or I'm going to the police with it. He stopped...

Until we had a party at my college. I get drunk, I saw someone in a relationship and get fairly depressed (and jealous). I decide to take a breather and take a walk to let the steam out. He followed me, starts to speak with me. I get sick, he brings me in a corner of the college with dark lights. I can barely stand without feeling like I'm going to throw up when I hear the voice of one of my friend looking for me since I disappeared. At that time I was too drunk to realize what was happening.

It's only in the following weeks when speaking with friends of what happened that I realized the danger of that situation.

Luckily for me, I was graduating in a few weeks and I would never hear of him ever again. I've removed him of every social media I know and made sure to cut every external tie possible.

You could say this was well beyond flirting. To me, that's what sexual harassment is.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

Insane?

Yes. Insane.

Because despite you repeating that pointless and grossly incorrect comment that has zero fucking basis on reality, the only way to always avoid "harrassing" women is to be a fucking psychic. Some will consider you just fucking looking at them from across the room as harrassment. Because they are, in fact, collectively insane.

Doubly so when your physical appearance plays a role in whether you're being charming, romantic, flirty, stalkery, harrassing, or rapey far more often than it doesn't.

Your anecdotal (and by anecdotal I mean completely made up) examples mean fuck-all to the reality of the modern world.