[Megathread] Star Citizen

[kenn9530]

Some of the people who are complaining about the delay work...or have worked...in software development. Some of them even work in game development. And those who don't can look at the output of other teams to gain at least an idea of how much progress should be expected.

Making AAA games isn't easy. Mistakes are made.

Sure. I can accept that.

Unfortunately, we have a host of issues.

Chris Roberts is developing an MMO game but he has yet to even add of the games netcode to the engine. One of their developers went online a few days ago and admitted they hadn't even started developing code for server meshing.

Chris Roberts is developing a game and he hasn't finished developing the engine.

This isn't a case of slow progress...this is a case of incompetence.

There is an established way to create games...one which simplifies its development and cuts costs and time. You have a central core for the game...the engine...and you add parts of the game around it until the game is complete.

Its a process which works...and CIG are ignoring it. They've squandered years of development and millions because of this.

Chris Roberts chose an engine that was unsuited for an MMO
Chris Roberts failed to keep third party devs aware of engine changes
Chris Roberts focus on developing and selling ships has ensured the game engine is still incomplete even after nearly seven years of development.

So yes...games development takes time.

But it has been six years already. CIG has spent more time and money modifying CE than it took CryTek to develop in the first place. CIG are still in the pre-Alpha phase of development. CIG are developing an MMO but do not have the netcode on place and have yet to start work on server meshing.

How do you develop an MMO without netcode?

It isn't easy to make an AAA game.

But CRs incompetence isn't helping. Its taking ages....its taking too long.

A competent manager would have seen work on SC move much faster. Six years and CIG have still to produce an Alpha? Six years and they are still working on the engine? Six years and they still have no content and even the basic mechanics are questionable? Six years and all they have to show for $110 million spent is a set of tech demos and some CGI vids?

The game has only been in proper development for around 5 years, it takes at least 7 years for a project like this to be even close to being ready. You cant really count development when it was only a concept and a basic demo back at the end of 2012, it also takes a while to set up a network of studios to even start developing a game. In reality since most of the staffing of the studios that would be 4-4.5 years in actual development, with a year of very little actual development as a concept, which in reality a normal studio would go straight into development.

With Chris Roberts it may take longer than normal to get the game ready but without him we wouldn't even be getting a game like this that many people are wanting.

At the end of the day its Chris Roberts game to finish the way he wants it done, i would rather wait for it to be ready and with all the features needed, instead of bolting things on afterwards.

I have played all the games similar in the genre and they don't have that space game spark, i only play the alpha now and then on new patches as not to spoil the game for release, the gameplay in SC feels more involved than all the other games out there and most of the core mechanics are not even in the game yet.

Why don't we wait for full 3.0 release and that will start to show what the game will start evolving into, yes it may not run smooth all the time but performance issues can be fleshed out in a more complete state.

[masterhorus8]

"limited quantity" mystery solved

Someone on Reddit pointed out that if it's being sold in limited quantities then you can't use store credit to buy it. Suddenly it all makes a lot more sense.

you can't use credits from melted old ships, only new shinny dollars they hungry

You want to say that again?

[Gorsameth]

The game has only been in proper development for around 5 years, it takes at least 7 years for a project like this to be even close to being ready. You cant really count development when it was only a concept and a basic demo back at the end of 2012, it also takes a while to set up a network of studios to even start developing a game. In reality since most of the staffing of the studios that would be 4-4.5 years in actual development, with a year of very little actual development as a concept, which in reality a normal studio would go straight into development.

With Chris Roberts it may take longer than normal to get the game ready but without him we wouldn't even be getting a game like this that many people are wanting.

At the end of the day its Chris Roberts game to finish the way he wants it done, i would rather wait for it to be ready and with all the features needed, instead of bolting things on afterwards.

I have played all the games similar in the genre and they don't have that space game spark, i only play the alpha now and then on new patches as not to spoil the game for release, the gameplay in SC feels more involved than all the other games out there and most of the core mechanics are not even in the game yet.

Why don't we wait for full 3.0 release and that will start to show what the game will start evolving into, yes it may not run smooth all the time but performance issues can be fleshed out in a more complete state.

Fine, 4-5 years to have no core systems locked down (did they finalize the flight system yet?) and no netcode but hey, they are working on foip!

[KyrtF]

The game has only been in proper development for around 5 years, it takes at least 7 years for a project like this to be even close to being ready.

Well.....no. It takes three.

We know this because despite what CR says, SC isn't new or groundbreaking. What do they have to do? Create Star Wars Galaxies or No Mans Skies with a different graphical style. Everything else they want to add is cosmetic.

But lets take your seven year figure. In 2012, when CR launched Kickstarter, SC was already over a year in development. That puts start date in 2011. We are in 2017...year 6. 2018...year seven....is just a few months away.

And if you want to take the "real" development time....as transparent an attempt to make it look like Star Citizen is progressing faster than it is...then we should do the same for other AAA titles.

Destiny taking 2.5 years, GTA V taking 3...SWTOR took 2. No Mans Skies took a year and a half. Take out tne time when "real" development doesn't occur and the development time of other AAA gsmes drops from five years to about 3.

This because the development times for other games also includes pre production times and time set aside for rewrites. I see little reason to treat Star Citizen as somehow different in this regard.

Start to finish....pre production, problems, rewrites and all...a typical AAA game takes between 3 and 5 years. Not 7 going on 10.

Partially that is because investors won't wait much longer for a return on their money. Mostly its because a competent development team can and does create a game in that time frame.

So...yes. I CAN and WILL count time spent as a concept because every other game counts that as development.

Nor does the staffing excuse work. Sure...CIG didn't have 400 people then. That's why CR hired third party devs such as Ilfonic instead. Further, other dev teams somehow manage to set themselves up AND create a game. Again...there's no reason to hold CIG and CR to a different standard simply because the truth makes them look bad.

Most of the work with those third parties turned out to be unusable. That fact cost CIG millions...potentially tens of millions...and squandered two years of development. And why? Because CR hired third parties to work on a game for CryEngine and then switched to the StarEngine core without telling anyone.

This is an example of the wastage that has occurred bevause CR isn't following the nest way to create games. Yiu finalise your engine and THEN you hire the third parties. But I don't see you up in arms about that.

With Chris Roberts it may take longer than normal to get the game ready but without him we wouldn't even be getting a game like this that many people are wanting.

It's been nearly seven years of development...there is no Alpha. There is no content. The engine isn't finished. The Netcode isn't fit for purpose. The server meshing is non existent. Basic game mechanics and functionality have yet to be added. And more.

There is no game even with Chris Roberts.

I have played all the games similar in the genre and they don't have that space game spark, i only play the alpha now and then on new patches as not to spoil the game for release, the gameplay in SC feels more involved than all the other games out there and most of the core mechanics are not even in the game yet.

If you've played an Alpha build, you're far ahead of anyone else. There is no Alpha build yet. SC is still pre-Alpha. As for gameplay...the flight model is the one area everyone seems to agree needs improvement. There is no gameplay in the social modules and SM is usually too empty to play.

But its still "more involved" for you. Good. Someone likes it.

Why don't we wait for full 3.0 release and that will start to show what the game will start evolving into, yes it may not run smooth all the time but performance issues can be fleshed out in a more complete state.

3.0 is a shadow of what was promised. A lot has been cut and the bug fixing that took place largely came down to "shift it to 3.1".

As it is...the issue isn't that there is no progress.

It's that the progress we have is painfully, glacially, slow.

Be honest...we've all seen the demos of 3.0 and GC17. Is that a game that looks like it had $110 million spent on a team of 400 and six years of development? The graphics are aged, the performance abysmal and the focus on FOIP and VOIP shows a disturbing perversion of priorities. These features need a working engine in play before CIG should even be adding them.

And thats just GC17.

And then we have the news that S42 won't be at CC17. And that the key technology of server meshing....to allow those 1000 player instances and have everyone in the same universe...hasn't even been started.

Yes....progress is slow. But there's slow...there is painfully slow....there is glacially slow...and then there is CIG. If GC17 and 3.0 was the result of two years work, it'd be great. But it's not two years.....it's been six

[Jastall]

I do wonder if CR is taking Shigeru Miyamoto's words too strictly...

To add another element to that maxim: ''...and a perfect game is never released''.

When you're still in pre-Alpha after a good 6 years of development, things are worrisome. AAA games might take 3-4, sometimes 5 years from start to finish. They're not still in pre-Alpha after 6, I doubt the finished product will come before 2020 at this rate. Apparently basic game systems such as the freaking flight model still aren't set in stone, after so much development time that's nuts.

Of course they will probably still have money since they're partly funding the development via Kickstarter, paying game testers and outrageously priced pixels, but that is not a business model I want to support. Give me a finished game and we'll talk, assuming the final product is not so feature bloated as to be a directionless mess.

[KyrtF]

When you're still in pre-Alpha after a good 6 years of development, things are worrisome. AAA games might take 3-4, sometimes 5 years from start to finish. They're not still in pre-Alpha after 6, I doubt the finished product will come before 2020 at this rate. Apparently basic game systems such as the freaking flight model still aren't set in stone, after so much development time that's nuts.

Forget the flight model. As bad as it is, they actually have one.

What I don't get is how they are building an MMO game, one that aspires to thousand player instances and everyone in the same universe, without their netcode being in place and without even starting work on their "server mesh" technologies.

An MMO without netcode. Yes...its supposed to come in 3.1 but think of how many systems they've already built that require it, that require it to work a certain way, and which will be messed up if it doesn't meet CRs high standards. I know there are ways to prune the data and optimise it but CIG are still taking a big risk simply to get existing systems to work.

[Malibutomi]

Well.....no. It takes three.

For a new IP, while they are building up the teams as well, and making an MMO? While a new COD takes 2 years?

We know this because despite what CR says, SC isn't new or groundbreaking. What do they have to do? Create Star Wars Galaxies or No Mans Skies with a different graphical style. Everything else they want to add is cosmetic.

Yeah a new SWG...just with tons of other stuff, actual physics, first person, procedural planets, seamless landings, physics grids, etc.
Or a new NMS...just with multiplayer, actual lore, different planets, missions, multiplayer ships, etc.
So yeah, none of the above comes even close in difficulty=bad examples.
If you realy think SC is just one of the above with shiny graphics you are really ignorant.

But lets take your seven year figure. In 2012, when CR launched Kickstarter, SC was already over a year in development. That puts start date in 2011. We are in 2017...year 6. 2018...year seven....is just a few months away.

And if you want to take the "real" development time....as transparent an attempt to make it look like Star Citizen is progressing faster than it is...then we should do the same for other AAA titles.

Destiny taking 2.5 years, GTA V taking 3...SWTOR took 2. No Mans Skies took a year and a half. Take out tne time when "real" development doesn't occur and the development time of other AAA gsmes drops from five years to about 3.

This because the development times for other games also includes pre production times and time set aside for rewrites. I see little reason to treat Star Citizen as somehow different in this regard.

Start to finish....pre production, problems, rewrites and all...a typical AAA game takes between 3 and 5 years. Not 7 going on 10.

Yeah real development ties then:
Destiny takes 2.5 half years...a fking shooter
GTA5 3 years...not an MMO, no planet, no stackable physics grids, no multiplayer ships
SWTOR 2 years...an MMO with basically no physics, no planets, no multiplayer ships..not even ships for the matter, basically a multiplayer Mass Effect.
Those are all made by huge studios/publishers, with the money already available, teams already in place, game engines usually ready.

Lets see SC then: 4 years if we go by your real development times while: started from zero (like 10 devs in a basement), had to gather funding (and constantly change plans accordingly on the fly), had to build up the studios (computers, accessories, etc), build up the teams (and set up the workflow with that). They are making a completely new IP, building 2 games simultaneously one of which is an MMO more complex than your 3 examples combined, had to completely rewrite the engine for it.

Still you argue they should have finished in the same timeframe?

Partially that is because investors won't wait much longer for a return on their money. Mostly its because a competent development team can and does create a game in that time frame.

So...yes. I CAN and WILL count time spent as a concept because every other game counts that as development.

Yeh they can create a game in that timeframe...a much much much smaller game, and with the team, equipment and funding there from the get go..

Nor does the staffing excuse work. Sure...CIG didn't have 400 people then. That's why CR hired third party devs such as Ilfonic instead. Further, other dev teams somehow manage to set themselves up AND create a game. Again...there's no reason to hold CIG and CR to a different standard simply because the truth makes them look bad.

Most of the work with those third parties turned out to be unusable. That fact cost CIG millions...potentially tens of millions...and squandered two years of development. And why? Because CR hired third parties to work on a game for CryEngine and then switched to the StarEngine core without telling anyone.

This is an example of the wastage that has occurred bevause CR isn't following the nest way to create games. Yiu finalise your engine and THEN you hire the third parties. But I don't see you up in arms about that.

Money wasting and mismanagement is the prime flags haters waving around....so then please bring up one game project which was developed under the circumstances:
1. constantly changing funding which they needed to plan around
2. backers voting to go on and expand the scope so they did accordingly
3. had to build up the team and studioswhile under development
4. somewhat similar scope to SC
When you brought the example, then you can make a comparison how good or bad is SC's management. Until then it's hot air.

It's been nearly seven years of development...there is no Alpha. There is no content. The engine isn't finished. The Netcode isn't fit for purpose. The server meshing is non existent. Basic game mechanics and functionality have yet to be added. And more.

Yeah yeah we know, they built up a demo in 2011 with a handful of ppl, but that is count as development...they got the money end of 2012, still just a handful of ppl, and started to gather equipment and working on the project, but that's heavy development in you book.

3.0 is a shadow of what was promised. A lot has been cut and the bug fixing that took place largely came down to "shift it to 3.1".

As it is...the issue isn't that there is no progress.

Yeah 3.0 lost 3 planets...in the meantime the feature list grew from 2 slides to 15 pages....but yeah technically it's a shadow of what was promised....because it is much much bigger by containing stuff what wasn't promised originally.

Be honest...we've all seen the demos of 3.0 and GC17. Is that a game that looks like it had $110 million spent on a team of 400 and six years of development? The graphics are aged, the performance abysmal and the focus on FOIP and VOIP shows a disturbing perversion of priorities. These features need a working engine in play before CIG should even be adding them.

This paragraph speaks volumes about you...you are so used to seeing shiny demos from the publishers (which has nothing to do with actual gameplay usually) that you cannot cope with an actual live gameplay. Graphics are aged? Have you seen some games released lately..especially which were waved around as SC/SQ42 killers? COD:IS...looks like shit compared to SC...ME:A...looks shit compared to SC

And then we have the news that S42 won't be at CC17. And that the key technology of server meshing....to allow those 1000 player instances and have everyone in the same universe...hasn't even been started.

The news are that the winter livestream will be SQ42 fully...which is totally understandable, they are all about 3.0 now, want to get done with it, then move on.
Server meshing works hasn't even started is just you making up things again..they said before they start merging the servers they want to get the most of each individual server first.

[Onvious]

Star citizen graphics not aged tbh.

[Malibutomi]

Yeah not at all

[kenn9530]

Well.....no. It takes three.

in what universe does it take 3 years to fully develop an MMO with planets custom made and fully interactive ships, not to mention before the kickstarter even begun it was basically just chris and his friend, possibly a few others helping out to get even the concept ready.

They had to build a company from the ground up and completely design new techs which are not available and you still expect a game to be ready in 3 years.

The games you mention had full studios ready from start to finish and had everything they needed.

Star citizen is no matter what you think a game like no other, the pre alpha of the game is very playable and enjoyable with a fair amount of content of which you completely dismiss.

Its just unreasonable to count 2-3 years of the game just being a pet project where it was basically just chris's dream, most other games have had a full studio to help bring it to reality from the beggining, while SC was build from scratch.

Its a fact that the game has only been in full development for just less than 5 years, i know you will completely ignore this and say even if only chris himself has been developing the game for 2 years then that 2 years also counts, fact is if you don't have a studio with all the tools you can't even start development on a game.

Also what are you even on about graphics look aged, the graphics looks great while not being too over the top as an MMO you can't go too crazy or you limit the playerbase to only those who can handle the game.

Once 3.0 is ready for everyone to test instead of just evocati, then we can start seeing how the game is coming along. Im hopefull for the game and keep tabs on it, and i fully expect setbacks but its on track as far as im concerned, from the start i never put any stock into any release dates as i knew it would takes around 7 years to get the game ready.

Im patiently waiting for the game and im happy to wait until its ready, there is more than enough games to play in the mean time, no matter what updates Elite has or NMS it is not anywhere near the level on where Star Citizen is meant to be when its ready.

[KyrtF]

For a new IP, while they are building up the teams as well, and making an MMO? While a new COD takes 2 years?

Other dev teams can do it....so why should I give CIG special treatment?

Yeah a new SWG...just with tons of other stuff, actual physics, first person, procedural planets, seamless landings, physics grids, etc.
Or a new NMS...just with multiplayer, actual lore, different planets, missions, multiplayer ships, etc.

First...again, other dev teams have shown they can create this stuff and release AAA games, start to finish, even writing new custom engines for their work and do so within 3-5 years. Is there some reason why I shpuld treat CIG like a special snowflake?

Second...all that stuff you listed is either old stuff that should be standatd for any decent engine, or cosmetic that won't make a bli d bit of difgetence to the game. Star Citizen when released will not be the first hame to have an animation engine or localised physics grids or even "serialised variables". It is however the first game to make such a big deal out of these technologies in quite some time.

You also make tje clasdic mistake...just bevaisr Chris Roberts SAYS he wants to (eventually) add something to the game doesn't mean he will, or that he can.

So....NMS. It has procedurally generated planets, atmospheric flights and landings, it has base building, customisable ships, an inventory system, aliens and an alien language, it has a (bad) flight model, lode anď story, an in game economy and trade system and more.

Four years of development, brand new engine written from scratch, total cost about $15 million from a development team that average 4-12 and peaked about 30.

What is it lacking that SC plans to have? Multiplayer...and HG are working on it.

SC....six years of development, $110 million and a team that has grown to nearly 400.

No finalised engine.
No netcode
A bad flight model
Basic AI
No in game mechanics for most planned content paths
No server meshing for the MMO aspect
No content

You can argue that SC will eventually deliver in terms of quality. But even if that were true...and there is no indication right now that CR can or will deliver on his promises...that still leaves HG crafting an engine in less than two years that does everything CR wants SC to do.

NMS seems to have a different gameplay focus than SC....but in terms of what its engine can do, the big difference seems to be graphical style. If we were to switch NMS' 50s scifi style with SCs highly detailed models.....what then?

So yeah, none of the above comes even close in difficulty=bad examples.

Just because CR uses all sorts of fancy buzz words does not make things difficult. We can see this in ATV where Erin seems to have a different idea of how to do things.

"Forget the polish for now...lets get each element working and polish it later"

That approach would, from my own experience, work. Its much easier trying to fix one bug than CTs approach of fix them all yesterday.

Yeah real development ties then:
Destiny takes 2.5 half years...a fking shooter
GTA5 3 years...not an MMO, no planet, no stackable physics grids, no multiplayer ships
SWTOR 2 years...an MMO with basically no physics, no planets, no multiplayer ships..not even ships for the matter, basically a multiplayer Mass Effect.
Those are all made by huge studios/publishers, with the money already available, teams already in place, game engines usually ready.

CR had an established studio....he had a team already in place...he started with an engine already in place and he had the money.

Fully funded at about $25 million....and $65 million...and again at about $100 million. Each time edging out one group of investors...

Lets see SC then: 4 years if we go by your real development times while: started from zero (like 10 devs in a basement), had to gather funding (and constantly change plans accordingly on the fly), had to build up the studios (computers, accessories, etc), build up the teams (and set up the workflow with that). They are making a completely new IP, building 2 games simultaneously one of which is an MMO more complex than your 3 examples combined, had to completely rewrite the engine for it.

And while CIG were doing that, Chris Roberts hired several third party developer teams, set them to eprk on different asppects and modules of them game and then went and changed the game engine without yelling them, ensuring years of work were thrown out.

You keep trying to hammer home the point that CIG should get special treatment because they were setting up a studio.

You keep ignoring the fact this has never stopped other teams. Or that CR sidestepped this problem entirely by hiring third party devs to do the work.

He threw out the work by devs such as Ilfonic...sure. That doesn't mean those years he wasted didn't happen.

Still you argue they should have finished in the same timeframe?

You are talking about producing just 600 procedurally generated worlds with handcrafted elements all within an Elite style space trading/combat sim which has a built FPS component and a personal inventory system.

Kicker is....CIG has the space combat system in AC, the MMO with the social system and the FPS with SM. All he really has to do is merge those systems together and create a system to explore and content to play around. The engine he has isn't finished but it should ne good rnough to handle that. Then he could start to expand the number of systems.

But he hasn't. Why?

Yeh they can create a game in that timeframe...a much much much smaller game, and with the team, equipment and funding there from the get go..

FDev created a galaxy and its devs were able hand craft 150,000 worlds.
But CIG gets a pass on doing the same for just 600? And thats even though CIG had the money and the devs and the equipment.

Money wasting and mismanagement is the prime flags haters waving around....so then please bring up one game project which was developed under the circumstances:
1. constantly changing funding which they needed to plan around
2. backers voting to go on and expand the scope so they did accordingly
3. had to build up the team and studioswhile under development
4. somewhat similar scope to SC
When you brought the example, then you can make a comparison how good or bad is SC's management. Until then it's hot air.

Do you actually believe this?

Hiring third parties to work on CryEngine and then changing the game to StarEngine? Throwing out two years of work as a result....If that isn't wasting money, what is?

Chris has only one decision to make regarding third parties when it came
to vhangig the game engine. Should he tell them and stop development...or don't tell them and throw out their work when it was fone.

Do you think the option CR chose...not telling them.and throwing out their work...was one a competent manager would have made?

No 2 is another example of his incompetence. He should NEVER have let the backers make that choice. Even then, he got the devision he wanted and pushed without taking responsibility for it.

3 is a sham excuse. He HAD a team and he hired other teams . Keep denying this all you want but the fact is that he had a team from the start. He simply hired other teams to do the work... then changed the game engine so their work couldn't be used.

And similar scope to SC depends a lot on how you define "scope". Six years to provide what CIG have released to date? I could name thousands because CIG have produced nothing. All the features CR wants to add? Assuming he is able to fit in everything and get it working...yes, the list is smaller. But it isn't just SC. NMS...ED....Dual Universe...SWG....SWTOR...several others. All doing most if not more than what SC is planning on attempting.

Yeah yeah we know, they built up a demo in 2011 with a handful of ppl, but that is count as development...they got the money end of 2012, still just a handful of ppl, and started to gather equipment and working on the project, but that's heavy development in you book.

It is ALL part of the development process experienced by EVERY game. From concept to release. Part of that process IS defining the concept, prototyping, undertaking the initial demos and more.

Apart from the fact you don't like being reminded SC has been in development since 2011 and is still in the pre-Alpha phase, this doesn't seem like a reason why we should change the meaning of how the industry defines a games development period.

I would agree....Star Citizen is showing about TWO years worth of development. Which doesn't really change the fact that the game has been in development for six.

In short...CIGs development has been troubled and it shows.

Yeah 3.0 lost 3 planets...in the meantime the feature list grew from 2 slides to 15 pages....but yeah technically it's a shadow of what was promised....because it is much much bigger by containing stuff what wasn't promised originally.

Did you read the list of what they are adding? Much of that 15 pages that you mention is little more than filler. Indeed, going through it, there was more than one instance where these features were repeated and reworded.

Or perhaps you are looking at a different list.

This paragraph speaks volumes about you...you are so used to seeing shiny demos from the publishers (which has nothing to do with actual gameplay usually) that you cannot cope with an actual live gameplay. Graphics are aged? Have you seen some games released lately..especially which were waved around as SC/SQ42 killers? COD:IS...looks like shit compared to SC...ME:A...looks shit compared to SC

Have you seen the games from 2012 and 2013 that blow SC out of the water as far as graphical quality is concerned? Did you witness the character models CIG used at GC17? The worlds looked great....everything else was average or poor.

As for "shiny demo"...the problem is that that is ALL SC has to show for 6 years of work. No engine...no content..little or no mechanics...the netcode is a sham and CIG haven't even started the code for server meshing...something that should have been baked in from the beginning.

Tacking such systems onto an established codebase is not a good idea. Even the performance issues are easy to explain away...with the graphical fidelity CR wants, it is important the code needs to be optimised from the start...not tacked on as an afterthought.

Just looking at the bug reports that have been shown shows a lot that indicates fairly simple basic mistakes. The 3.0 leaks show issues with simple physics grids. The performance issues and memory leaks CIG are trying to fix now have been noted for months and they still are not fixed.

These are all issues that should have been avoided or least solved early in development. These are basic systems that are fundamental to the games operation but which still do not work.

The news are that the winter livestream will be SQ42 fully...which is totally understandable, they are all about 3.0 now, want to get done with it, then move on.

Stop making excuses. S42 should have been ready ages ago but isn't because of CRs design decisions. Showing it in the holiday stream is something...but it also puts it into a highly controlled environment which means CIG control what is shown. They've already been caught lying about their demos. That S42 is not ready for player interaction should be a warning sign.

Server meshing works hasn't even started is just you making up things again..they said before they start merging the servers they want to get the most of each individual server first.

You are talking about a FUNDAMENTAL CORE TECHNOLOGY required to meet the central goal of creating an MMO.

No server meshing means no "one universe for everyone"...no "1000 player instances". You are talking about a system which impacts on many other aspects of the game, without which those aspects will not work as intended. You are talking about another year or two of work simply to get it working...if it can...and that is planned only AFTER they get the single server working the way they want.

And you are OK with this?!

[Tierbook]

NMS is to Star Citizen what Valerian is to Star Wars

[KyrtF]

NMS is to Star Citizen what Valerian is to Star Wars

NMS has a finished working game engine and netcode. It includes game mechanics, and a flight and combat model. It has a story, lore, aliens and a language. It has a working personal inventory system.

Star Citizen right now PLANS to add these feature into the game at some point in the future with no guarantee that it will do so.

Love it or loathe it, NMS is a fully realised hame that transitioned from pre-Alpha to Alpha to Beta to Gold to release succesfully.

Star Citizen has been stuck in pre-Alpha for six years with no sign of moving onto Alpha any time soon.

A more appropriate analogy would be comparing the released Valerian with one of the first scripts from Star Wars, pre editing and without knowing which film you have. Sure...maybe it'll be TESB you'll end up with....or it could be TPM or even the SW Christmas Special.

[Rennadrel]

$850.... I feel like this shit has gotta be a contender for most expensive item sold in a video game (especially for a game that isn't even out...)

It just feels insulting.

Probably. I know people who paid $500 per for gold Clan Mech's in MechWarrior Online a few years ago. Granted, each Gold Mech came with a full pack of 8 different chassis with 24 different variants along with the singular gold Mech. Still, not worth it. Whales gonna whale though man, some people have more money than sense.

- - - Updated - - -

NMS has a finished working game engine and netcode. It includes game mechanics, and a flight and combat model. It has a story, lore, aliens and a language. It has a working personal inventory system.

Star Citizen right now PLANS to add these feature into the game at some point in the future with no guarantee that it will do so.

Love it or loathe it, NMS is a fully realised hame that transitioned from pre-Alpha to Alpha ti Beta to Gold to release succesfully.

Star Citizen has been stuck in pre-Alpha for six years with no sign of moving onto Alpha any time soon.

An appropriate analogy eould be comparing the teleased Valerian with one of the first scripts from Star Wars, pre editing and without knowing which film you have. Sure...maybe its TESB you'll end up with....or it could be TPM or even the SW Christmas Special.

No, NMS came out with half as many features as the devs promised. That's why it bombed and that's why it got shit canned by reviewers and players alike. If you omit all of the things that the devs said they were going to put into the game for release, then it's just a bare bones game without much depth to it, it's basically Star Citizen with a bit more in the ways of features than SC has currently.

And NMS is a single player game, no matter how much the devs whip their cocks out and say it is a multiplayer online game.

[Malibutomi]

CR had an established studio....he had a team already in place...he started with an engine already in place and he had the money.

I wanted to write a good answer for your long post, but then i get to the sentence above and realized you have no connection to reality in the slightest way, so there's no point arguing with you.

All your example games/teams had multimillion dollars/few hundred strong dev teams from the get go, while CR had a basement with 10-12 dev, no engine which could support the game so they needed to rewrite it almost fully, and a few million dollars to start

FDev created a galaxy and its devs were able hand craft 150,000 worlds.

LOOOOOL
Hand crafted 150.000 Worlds????? At first there were no worlds, then they had fugly lifeless procedural planets. That's hand crafting?
BTW they had the team and funding which you imagining to CIG...Frontier was a long long time established studio, they worked on their cobra engine since the 80's (according their own homepage), and started working on ED long before the kickstarter.


I have asked you to bring just one example of game development similar to SCs so you can base your mismanagement dream on something...ofc you couldn't...you just started a rambling about my points...
Sorry mate you cannot be taken seriously You have no point, no arguments just baseless ramblings where you try to state your opinion as facts wrapped in an unnecessary long word salad....pointless.

[Gorsameth]

I cant see Sq42 being in anything other then an early alpha stage simply because of how the rest of SC looks.

[kenn9530]

i don't even know what NMS is even being mentioned, the game is primarily a single player exploration game with base building, thats all it is since there is nothing much else to do in the game.

Star citizen is a custom build MMO with hand crafted worlds, heavily detailed fully interactive ships, current flight model atm is better than ED or NMS, seemless transitions with travel across the solar system and into planet atmosphere, ED and NMS have a code which did most of the work creating the universes, of which SC has created lore on each solar system.

If all your going to do is keep complaining about SC over and over then whats the point in even posting, its pretty much just trolling at this point.

You can ignore it all you want there is no game similar to SC in terms of full immersion into a space MMO universe, it takes months to even make a ship ready, all the other games don't have to do anywhere near SC to make a ship work, the time it took to make the largest ship in SC ready probably was enough to create ever single ship in ED and NMS combined.

If you keep up with the weekly updates and such you can clearly see the amount of detail needed for even small things in SC.

[Malibutomi]

i don't even know what NMS is even being mentioned, the game is primarily a single player exploration game with base building, thats all it is since there is nothing much else to do in the game.

Star citizen is a custom build MMO with hand crafted worlds, heavily detailed fully interactive ships, current flight model atm is better than ED or NMS, seemless transitions with travel across the solar system and into planet atmosphere, ED and NMS have a code which did most of the work creating the universes, of which SC has created lore on each solar system.

If all your going to do is keep complaining about SC over and over then whats the point in even posting, its pretty much just trolling at this point.

You can ignore it all you want there is no game similar to SC in terms of full immersion into a space MMO universe, it takes months to even make a ship ready, all the other games don't have to do anywhere near SC to make a ship work, the time it took to make the largest ship in SC ready probably was enough to create ever single ship in ED and NMS combined.

If you keep up with the weekly updates and such you can clearly see the amount of detail needed for even small things in SC.

That's why ED's long overdue spacelegs are nowhere to be seen. They either do it right like SC but that will take years for them as well...or they do a crap implementation which will be compared to SC and will be booed on.

Actually i'm fairly surprised so many people who bring up ED and NMS in comparison cannot realize SC takes a lot more time because the need to design all the ship and station interiors to be functional, working and match the exterior, implement very complex physics grids (player on a space bike which has it's physics grid - in a ships physics grip - which is in a planet's physics grid, which rotates and orbits). Whereas the other games been done with all those with a few menus and a cockpit view.

[zealo]

I cant see Sq42 being in anything other then an early alpha stage simply because of how the rest of SC looks.

If anything, SQ42 is the part of this that has the biggest question marks on it as to the state it is in.

It has the biggest dev team CIG has assigned to working with it, but it's also something they're not saying much about at all.

[Majestic12]

Is this "game" still in development?
Honestly at this point it just feels like it's the biggest, longest running scam in gaming history or something.

I followed the original KS project if I remember correctly.
From what I can tell, since it became such a big success, funding wise, the creator decided to add more and more and more and more content to the original game that the scope has gotten so massive its gonna take so many years to make.



From my point of view, it's like halfway through making vanilla wow saying "hmmmm, we need more" and then working on BC, WotlK, Cata, MoP, WoD and Legion at once.
It's so stupid and silly to add so much on top of everything. Should have focused on the "core" game so people actually had something to play, and then work on all that extra stuff as updates and new patches.

Yep. The problem is that Chris Roberts has had a history of doing this in the past. His last game, Freelancer, went massively overbudget due to featurecreep and unrealistic timetables. Chris was eventually forced off the project after he had ran it into the ground and Microsoft had to bail the game out.

Now Chris has no publisher and he fell straight back into the same trap.

Ultimately, Chris and his wife's dream has already been realized. Chris always wanted to direct a team of A-star actors (Mark Hamill, Gillian Anderson etc) and got to do that in Squadron 42. Sandi, his wife, wants nothing more to be an actress and got to play alongside them. They're even throwing in a preview of her upcoming work on Citizencon.

Squadron 42(the single player game with A-list actors) is Chris' revenge against Hollywood after he failed there with his Wing Commander movie.

Chris & Sandi got rich without even having to release the game. Their main income comes from selling ships, which they've said they will stop doing once the game releases. Think they'll willingly give up their biggest source of income? Not going to happen. They'll drag this out as long as they can. Now they're going to sell a new ship for $850.

You can consider Star Citizen as being one of the biggest preorder debacles of all time. People actually believed that Chris would get out Squadron 42 episode 1 in 2014(like he said). It's now almost 2018 and it's not out yet. That says a lot about Chris Roberts.

In short, there's zero incentive to buy the game now unless you already have. Wait until it gets out if you can.