[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Rennadrel]

I think a lot of the projects failings are because Chris Roberts has failed at managing both timelines and expectations. I understand that he is pushing his teams hard, but one thing I can relate to him is that in being a project manager, 9 times out of 10, things are going to go wrong and you have to either start from scratch or do a lot of rework in order to get your product delivered, and that usually means being late. In my working life, I have worked on projects that were 3 or 6 months late, which is exceptionally late in my line of work. Shit just happens. Hell, we launched a whole product line for manufacturing about 6 years ago and within 6 months we were redesigning the entire thing from the beginning because it didn't work. We were more concerned with getting the entire thing done rather than getting proper feedback from our customer to ensure that what we made them would allow them to make good parts. In the end it made us look like assholes who didn't care about quality.

So I can relate, it's hard managing expectations and still trying to ensure you put out a quality product in a reasonable time frame. Usually the best quality takes the most amount of time. In the end, if you put timelines and meeting expectations ahead of quality, you are just setting yourself up for failure. Sure, he has over promised and under delivered, but better than over promising and delivering an utter garbage product. SC has a long way to go, if they aren't having any issues with financials, I give it two years before the game even gets through beta, at the least. I have faith it will get done, it's just not going to be anywhere near when we expected it to be when we backed it.

[KyrtF]

I think a lot of the projects failings are because Chris Roberts has failed at managing both timelines and expectations.

OTOH...if a project manager is constantly missing his milestones then it can be said that he is underestimating the resources necessary to actually meet those "targets".

How many project managers, for example, give public release dates that occur before his project even started as CR did with 3.0?

[Rennadrel]

OTOH...if a project manager is constantly missing his milestones then it can be said that he is underestimating the resources necessary to actually meet those "targets".

How many project managers, for example, give public release dates that occur before his project even started as CR did with 3.0?

I don't know, but I can tell you that in my personal experience, project managers ALWAYS do this. Chris Roberts isn't even close to being the only guy to ever over promise shit to customers. Do you know how many project managers that I work with and all of them over promise every single project that we do for our customers? I work with a whopping 6 of them and 4 are absolutely terrible. You'd think that management would actually deal with these people so that our GM doesn't get bombarded with shit because we wind up having major issues (99.999999% of the time related to design, amusingly).

Now, to be fair, Roberts also didn't anticipate they were going to have as many issues with certain things as they have encountered. But being one of those guys who has had to deal with stupid project managers who can never get timelines right, I fully understand this situation more than most would. You have your good days where everything goes fine and then you have your bad days where shit just hits the fan and you spend a week going back and fixing things all because of a few mistakes or oversights in the design process.

[Majestic12]

To me, it just seems like Chris strolls around wanting to be the next Steve Jobs. He wants to deliver without a doubt, but his method of communicating his drive has been dreadful.

[KyrtF]

I don't know, but I can tell you that in my personal experience, project managers ALWAYS do this. Chris Roberts isn't even close to being the only guy to ever over promise shit to customers.

There is a difference between overpromising and lying.

Chris Roberts either lied to backers when he have an EoY16 release date or he was trying to define new levels of the word incompetent as it turned out CIG hadn't even started work on 3.0 when he gave that release date.

Or how about when he failed to keep third parties aware that the core engine they were developing game modules for...CryEngine...wasn't going to be used?

That isn't overpromising...that's sheer incompetence. How much work was thrown away, how many millions squandered, because CR failed in the basic duty of communication?

Even better...how could CR even consider handing out work to third parties knowing that the core engine, the framework around which such modularity depends, was undergoing massive changes? Has he been out of the industry so long he has fogotten the basics?

You're right that a lot of the projects failings are because Chris Roberts has failed at managing both timelines and expectations. As I see it, that's because of two factors...

1...he's incompetent at managing the project. We saw it with Freelancer. We are seeing it now. He's a great vision man...he's a good salesman. But a terrible project manager

2...he isn't managing expectations so much as hyping everything up as much as he can and creating as much excitement as he can so he can persuade people to hand over more money. When he got up and told people 3.0 was the big EoY launch he wasn't doing it to be open...he was doing it to drum up excitement, to create a sense of progression and to get people to open their wallets. And he was prepared to lie to you to get that money.

Unless you want to argue that he was so incompetent he wasn't aware 3.0 was months away from even starting?

[Rennadrel]

There is a difference between overpromising and lying.

Chris Roberts either lied to backers when he have an EoY16 release date or he was trying to define new levels of the word incompetent as it turned out CIG hadn't even started work on 3.0 when he gave that release date.

Or how about when he failed to keep third parties aware that the core engine they were developing game modules for...CryEngine...wasn't going to be used?

That isn't overpromising...that's sheer incompetence. How much work was thrown away, how many millions squandered, because CR failed in the basic duty of communication?

Even better...how could CR even consider handing out work to third parties knowing that the core engine, the framework around which such modularity depends, was undergoing massive changes? Has he been out of the industry so long he has fogotten the basics?

You're right that a lot of the projects failings are because Chris Roberts has failed at managing both timelines and expectations. As I see it, that's because of two factors...

1...he's incompetent at managing the project. We saw it with Freelancer. We are seeing it now. He's a great vision man...he's a good salesman. But a terrible project manager

2...he isn't managing expectations so much as hyping everything up as much as he can and creating as much excitement as he can so he can persuade people to hand over more money. When he got up and told people 3.0 was the big EoY launch he wasn't doing it to be open...he was doing it to drum up excitement, to create a sense of progression and to get people to open their wallets. And he was prepared to lie to you to get that money.

Unless you want to argue that he was so incompetent he wasn't aware 3.0 was months away from even starting?

I have never once thought he was lying. His expectations have been way off the mark, that doesn't make him a liar though. He wouldn't assemble a 300+ man dev team to make a game not to deliver. Yeah, I am annoyed that 3.0 has seen over a year of delays, but there is more than enough tangible shit shown off week to week to at least see that progress is being made.

Unlike you, I don't get butthurt over delays and missed targets. That's why I don't care that things keep getting delayed. The saltiest place on Earth isn't nearly as salty as you are about SC.

[Edge-]

http://mailchi.mp/cloudimperiumgames...he-banu-140549

In a surprise to probably nobody, Squadron 42 isn't* going to be out in 2017.

I eagerly await the next delay.

[Gorsameth]

http://mailchi.mp/cloudimperiumgames...he-banu-140549

In a surprise to probably nobody, Squadron 42 is going to be out in 2017.

I eagerly await the next delay.

? Nothing in that piece talks about a release date. Just that they will show some footage of it in December.

[Edge-]

? Nothing in that piece talks about a release date. Just that they will show some footage of it in December.

“Squadron 42 will be the focus of our holiday livestream in December, where we will preview some gameplay and share our roadmap for its completion.”

It's not coming out in 2017, despite Roberts comments back in 2016 to GameStar that indicated that mid-late 2017 was the most recent target for release after it missed its 2016 release window.

[Gorsameth]

Squardron 42 is FAR from release because to do so it needs a finished engine, flight system, world building ect. It, like SC itself, is in pre-alpha.

[masterhorus8]

It's not coming out in 2017, despite Roberts comments back in 2016 to GameStar that indicated that mid-late 2017 was the most recent target for release after it missed its 2016 release window.

I think Gorsameth may be referring that you said that it is going to be out in 2017.

Squadron 42 is going to be out in 2017.

[stellvia]

I think Edge meant to say "NOT going to be out in 2017" based on the rest of his comment.

[Edge-]

I think Gorsameth may be referring that you said that it is going to be out in 2017.

Ah, yay for pre-coffee spelling mistakes! Fixt, thanks for the heads up.

[KyrtF]

I have never once thought he was lying. His expectations have been way off the mark, that doesn't make him a liar though. He wouldn't assemble a 300+ man dev team to make a game not to deliver. Yeah, I am annoyed that 3.0 has seen over a year of delays, but there is more than enough tangible shit shown off week to week to at least see that progress is being made.

I don't think he lied about creating a game. I think the developers and artists at CIG and F42 are working very hard trying to create the game we want despite being attached to the blocker that is Chris Roberts.

I do believe that Chris Roberts DID lie about the release date for 3.0. He got up on stage in August and proudly proclaimed to one and all that 3.0 was to be the big EoY release for 2016.

Development on 3.0 started months later. 3.0 wasn't even in production at the time he got up on stage.

I think he is incompetent as a project manager...he's failed enough basic tasks that I think that is true...but do I think he is incompetent enough to give a release date without so much as checking in on his team and confirming that they were at least working on it? No. I don't.

So either I am wrong and he is that incompetent, or he knew there was zero chance of 3.0 being finished as promised, meaning he lied. He wouldn't have just stretched the truth...he would have lied. And the only reason I can see for him to lie, would be to keep the excitement rolling, to forestall questions over the delays, to keep the money flowing.

If you want to argue that he is being honest, but incompetent - that doesn't bother me. But I don't see how it would make you or any other backer more comfortable.

Neither possibility affects me. I have not backed the game. I am not going to....not because I am not interested, but because I have zero faith in CIGs ability to deliver, at least so long as Chris Roberts is in charge. Yes - 3.0 showed some progress. 3.0 is also being released with many of the promised features missing and a bug fixing process that largely came down to "shift it to 3.1". We have progress - but for ten months work...that isn't a lot of progress at all.

But whatever happens, **I** am not going to lose any money over this. And I think anyone who has pledged more than $60 or so to back this needs to reconsider.

[Deleted]

well, when the game launches you will be able to build colonies with it so worth every penny imo

also limited edition, they can't print to many.

[Yunru]

850 dolars.....realy?

[masterhorus8]

850 dolars.....realy?

Artificial rarity is a thing.

[Deleted]

"limited quantity" mystery solved

Someone on Reddit pointed out that if it's being sold in limited quantities then you can't use store credit to buy it. Suddenly it all makes a lot more sense.

you can't use credits from melted old ships, only new shinny dollars they hungry

[masterhorus8]

Do we have more info on that 850$ thing?

Is it the game changer ship?!

We need a trailer a something

Supposedly it is the "game changer". Being able to build colonies on planets and some such.

[Gorsameth]

Supposedly it is the "game changer". Being able to build colonies on planets and some such.

*cough*Money grab*cough*

Sorry, had something stuck in my throat there.