Vengance DH - Soul Cleave

[Deleted]

Anyone still using soul cleave? I'm the only one who prefere SC over spirit bomb+francture? Talking about survivability in raid.

[MookieRah]

If you aren’t in mythic, and probably even in most mythic encounters, you can safely use spirit bomb in tomb. I only consistently use soul cleave against KJ, and then mostly shortly before and during fel claws. Everything else I blast with spirit bomb, only occasionally using soul cleave if I dip a little low on health.

[Invisibelf]

I only use soul cleave if I need healing RIGHT THIS VERY MOMENT. Otherwise it's almost always better to fracture and SB.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

OP: Are you asking about using Soul Cleave instead of spec'ing for Spirit Bomb + Fracture? In which case you really mean using other talents?

If that is your question, then no. I always talent Spirit Bomb and Fracture.

If you are asking if I sometimes still use Soul Cleave, then yes, of course. If I need emergency healing, first I Spirit Bomb (to apply Frailty), then I Soul Cleave. Because Soul Cleaves are more powerful if you Spirit Bomb first.

[Deleted]

Thank you for replies.

OP: Are you asking about using Soul Cleave instead of spec'ing for Spirit Bomb + Fracture? In which case you really mean using other talents?

If that is your question, then no. I always talent Spirit Bomb and Fracture.

If you are asking if I sometimes still use Soul Cleave, then yes, of course. If I need emergency healing, first I Spirit Bomb (to apply Frailty), then I Soul Cleave. Because Soul Cleaves are more powerful if you Spirit Bomb first.

I'm asking for SC instead of the comb spirit bomb + fracture yes. When I raid tos with my guild (we don't do mythic) In HC KJ I miss Feed the Demon if I spec Fracture. We're not pros... and I started tanking 2 months ago(and play wow 4 months ago).

[Deleted]

I use feed the demon talent instead of fracture. But still using spirit bomb because of the leech you gain. I feel like i am immortal in m+ dungs.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Thank you for replies.



I'm asking for SC instead of the comb spirit bomb + fracture yes. When I raid tos with my guild (we don't do mythic) In HC KJ I miss Feed the Demon if I spec Fracture. We're not pros... and I started tanking 2 months ago(and play wow 4 months ago).

As you gain more experience, I expect you will gravitate towards Fracture and Spirit Bomb. Why Fracture? So much of our power - self heals, damage resistance, damage potential - comes from the number of souls we consume. Fracture is the fastest most efficient ways to generate soul shards. If you don't take Fracture, you are limiting your potential both for damage AND self healing. Why Spirit Bomb? It's not just the dps. It's the combination of great dps and Frailty. When you can do lots of dps AND heal for 20% of the damage you do? Everything gets easier. Stuff dies faster, you need less healing... You don't need to Soul Cleave much because you are constantly healing for 20% of your dps. And when you do need to Soul Cleave, your Cleave will be even stronger because of Frailty.

- - - Updated - - -

I use feed the demon talent instead of fracture. But still using spirit bomb because of the leech you gain. I feel like i am immortal in m+ dungs.

The faster you generate soul shards, the more often you can Spirit Bomb, the more damage you can do and the more you can heal yourself. Fracture is the fastest way to generate soul shards.

[HeiAggra]

As you gain more experience, I expect you will gravitate towards Fracture and Spirit Bomb. Why Fracture? So much of our power - self heals, damage resistance, damage potential - comes from the number of souls we consume. Fracture is the fastest most efficient ways to generate soul shards. If you don't take Fracture, you are limiting your potential both for damage AND self healing. Why Spirit Bomb? It's not just the dps. It's the combination of great dps and Frailty. When you can do lots of dps AND heal for 20% of the damage you do? Everything gets easier. Stuff dies faster, you need less healing... You don't need to Soul Cleave much because you are constantly healing for 20% of your dps. And when you do need to Soul Cleave, your Cleave will be even stronger because of Frailty.- - - Updated - - -

What do you mean by SC are more powergul after SB?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

What do you mean by SC are more powergul after SB?

SB applies Frailty. Using SB first means your Soul Cleave heals you for 20% of the damage it does, in addition to whatever healing it would have done on its own.

[HeiAggra]

SB applies Frailty. Using SB first means your Soul Cleave heals you for 20% of the damage it does, in addition to whatever healing it would have done on its own.

AH ok true true
I usually use SC when a big hit comes, cuz of the 4 tier.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

AH ok true true
I usually use SC when a big hit comes, cuz of the 4 tier.

Tbh, most VDH raid tanks I know don't even use the 4 tier (unless it just happens to be their highest item level gear). We all complained about the set bonus when it was on PTR, and lobbied to get it changed right up until it went live. After that we just lol and ignored it. It's not that getting extra versatility is bad; it's just that it's not worth mucking up your rotation. If you are doing lots of Fracture + Spirit Bombs, most of your healing comes passively while you fight. Soul Cleave is your emergency extra heal, to be used right after Spirit Bomb, and even then only if you are in danger of dying right away. Soul Cleave is fast, but less efficient because it uses up so much pain (remember it uses variable amount of pain). One Soul Cleave can cost you two Fractures and a Spirit Bomb.

[HeiAggra]

Tbh, most VDH raid tanks I know don't even use the 4 tier (unless it just happens to be their highest item level gear). We all complained about the set bonus when it was on PTR, and lobbied to get it changed right up until it went live. After that we just lol and ignored it. It's not that getting extra versatility is bad; it's just that it's not worth mucking up your rotation. If you are doing lots of Fracture + Spirit Bombs, most of your healing comes passively while you fight. Soul Cleave is your emergency extra heal, to be used right after Spirit Bomb, and even then only if you are in danger of dying right away. Soul Cleave is fast, but less efficient because it uses up so much pain (remember it uses variable amount of pain). One Soul Cleave can cost you two Fractures and a Spirit Bomb.

So you think it's not worth the 4 tier if i have higher ilvl with good stats?
Does the 2 tier is worth it?

[Kezuma]

So you think it's not worth the 4 tier if i have higher ilvl with good stats?
Does the 2 tier is worth it?

2 pc is very strong, 4 pc u dont use it unless thats your best available gear, once u get better ilvl gear u can drop your 4 pc no worry

[HeiAggra]

2 pc is very strong, 4 pc u dont use it unless thats your best available gear, once u get better ilvl gear u can drop your 4 pc no worry

Humm ok, i have better gear for example i could use only chest and hadns from tier and the rest of tier. I have leggs with loads of versa and some crit 940 and head 935 haste and versa with socket.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Humm ok, i have better gear for example i could use only chest and hadns from tier and the rest of tier. I have leggs with loads of versa and some crit 940 and head 935 haste and versa with socket.

Nice. Yeah I would use those. The one trade off we get for having lousy 4pc bonus is getting to use best item level for those slots.

Oh - and yes the 2pc is worth it. If I am tanking easy content where I only worry about dps, I even replace the 2pc. But if I am tanking something where I need to be defensive, I use 2 tier.

[HeiAggra]

Nice. Yeah I would use those. The one trade off we get for having lousy 4pc bonus is getting to use best item level for those slots.

Oh - and yes the 2pc is worth it. If I am tanking easy content where I only worry about dps, I even replace the 2pc. But if I am tanking something where I need to be defensive, I use 2 tier.

Well i have all 6 pieces of tier to be honest, with the glove being the higher ilvl 920, yes im unlucky with the procs lol.
So maybe gloves and back, i have a head 935 haste versa with socket shoulders haste versa with 935, chest 940 crit versa and legs 940 crit versa also. Prolly ill go like that.

By the way what leggendaries you guys think will be better, i think i have all of them now.

[Kezuma]

Well i have all 6 pieces of tier to be honest, with the glove being the higher ilvl 920, yes im unlucky with the procs lol.
So maybe gloves and back, i have a head 935 haste versa with socket shoulders haste versa with 935, chest 940 crit versa and legs 940 crit versa also. Prolly ill go like that.

By the way what leggendaries you guys think will be better, i think i have all of them now.

Depends on what content your doing, for m+ i use both trinkerys most of the time , sometimes i change Kjbw with leggo pants. Boots gloves combo its nice for m+ aswell if u fancy that but tbh its below double trinket setup. Or u can use sephuzu for mini lust in m+. Raids id go with Archi trinket and pants or use the boots if u need faster cd for fiery brand

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Well i have all 6 pieces of tier to be honest, with the glove being the higher ilvl 920, yes im unlucky with the procs lol.
So maybe gloves and back, i have a head 935 haste versa with socket shoulders haste versa with 935, chest 940 crit versa and legs 940 crit versa also. Prolly ill go like that.

By the way what leggendaries you guys think will be better, i think i have all of them now.

Like Kezuma said it depends.

• AoE or ST?
• What goes in slot if not legendary?
• Are you likely to die from magic damage?
• Are you likely to die from physical damage?
• Are you unlikely to die and just want to max dps?

I mostly run with AHR and boots. I feel like that combo is fairly versatile dps/defensive both, and also good for QoL. Boots make FB synch up better with Soul Carver, so I can use them together. Plus more FB = more Fiery Demise windows AND more FB damage reduction on primary target. AHR is both an offensive and defensive cd, and my WA reminds me to use it just as Meta procs are expiring.

If I want to get really defensive for physical damage, I swap in legs + DM for AHR.
If I want to get really defensive for magic damage, I use cloak.
I know Cina is a popular option for dps, and some VDHs parse better than me while using it, but I can't get excited about a legendary that only buffs first 10% of a fight.

[HeiAggra]

Like Kezuma said it depends.

• AoE or ST?
• What goes in slot if not legendary?
• Are you likely to die from magic damage?
• Are you likely to die from physical damage?
• Are you unlikely to die and just want to max dps?

I mostly run with AHR and boots. I feel like that combo is fairly versatile dps/defensive both, and also good for QoL. Boots make FB synch up better with Soul Carver, so I can use them together. Plus more FB = more Fiery Demise windows AND more FB damage reduction on primary target. AHR is both an offensive and defensive cd, and my WA reminds me to use it just as Meta procs are expiring.

If I want to get really defensive for physical damage, I swap in legs + DM for AHR.
If I want to get really defensive for magic damage, I use cloak.
I know Cina is a popular option for dps, and some VDHs parse better than me while using it, but I can't get excited about a legendary that only buffs first 10% of a fight.

I usually run with neck and AHR trinket.
It's more for raiding i do also M+ with the same and hardly have any issues.
If i use the legg pants maybe drop the neck?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I usually run with neck and AHR trinket.
It's more for raiding i do also M+ with the same and hardly have any issues.
If i use the legg pants maybe drop the neck?

I prefer the legs because I have control over when to use the extra mitigation, whereas the shield from Prydaz may or may not be up exactly when I need it. The stats on Prydaz are great, but so are the stats for legs. So I prefer the legs. Nothing wrong with Prydaz overall though so it's personal choice.