Should be able to run around pillar, once

[Prode]

Can possibly get arena gameplay more enjoyable for players through structuring arena in a way that allows much more reasonable set of abilities

•running with same speed is fair enough to catch someone, low mobility, even just walking is viable
•'eyes' can be used to their full effect, practically assured to get players out of stealth
•can make better use of casted spells, more reliable and can surely get the target in LoS for a while occasionally
•generally more reasonable mobility, don't need close to absurd mobility to catch ppl -> don't need to run so much either
•starting areas have 'fortress' feel to them
•caster with only casted spells is probably viable
•possibly more reasonable general gameplay and required abilities







Rogues/stealth


Stealthing around until the end of time and sap anyone who gets close is not viable. Don't need to get near the rogue to get in LoS.

Doesn't necessarily kill 2 rogues teams, they can still burst. But stealthing until 80% dampening isn't gonna happen







CC

Can CC and the target cannot continuously LoS it, but CCing isn't nearly as evident


Basically there won't be anywhere to go for the mage, let alone the priest. Maybe poly doesn't cost much mana, might take a few full moons tho

Then again, as long as the mage rly wants to poly, he can basically whenever he wants to.








LoS


Run speed ~doesn't matter, can still get in LoS of the target and in a much more reasonable way. Don't need to get close to the druid, eventually gonna have to turn back into the warlock's LoS








2 melee

It's considerably difficult to get away from there with rushing in for 2 melee teams


Could go other way around and wait for the enemy to come to them, but they corner their healer. By no means ez for the 2 melee team








Duel


Suitable for duels or 1v1, instead of plain field, can LoS yet mounting up and wait for cds etc still doesn't work








Tournament


Maybe healers can still excessively prolong matches but dpses surely can't. Players can't run around or hide for ages, able to include 2v2 in tournaments

[docterfreeze]

Did someone get pillar kited by a druid?

[Prode]

Did someone get pillar kited by a druid?

I think many have, and ~none of them thought 'damn I'm being outplayed'. Has nothing to do with skill, abuse of flawed game mechanics

[Saberstrike]

The saddest part is you'd be flamed and downvoted into oblivion (if this forum had that) by a circlejerk of pvp healers who's years of mental gymnastics convinced them that pillarhumping for 15 minutes with nothing of note happening is how the game should be; But I do really love your idea. It would certainly make things feel more arena-like. Though it might also have an unintended effect of making MW monks even stronger due to how they can ghost through those new walls -- speaking from a 2v2 perspective where every game is a MW game.

Though honestly all this terrain-fixing and 'dampening' are just bandaids ontop of the real problem, which is rampant and uncontrollable power creep. Without mentioning obvious problems of leather mobility, Time to kill is too fast. Time to heal is even faster. Both should be down by like 70% for the game's pvp to not be a laughable contest of 'who can stop the other healer from healing the longest'. The arenas themselves are honestly alright for what they are. It's the absolutely unacceptable class design that makes such changes seem like they'd be good for the game, without needing to rework it on a fundamental level.

[Prode]

The saddest part is you'd be flamed and downvoted into oblivion (if this forum had that) by a circlejerk of pvp healers who's years of mental gymnastics convinced them that pillarhumping for 15 minutes with nothing of note happening is how the game should be; But I do really love your idea. It would certainly make things feel more arena-like. Though it might also have an unintended effect of making MW monks even stronger due to how they can ghost through those new walls -- speaking from a 2v2 perspective where every game is a MW game.

Though honestly all this terrain-fixing and 'dampening' are just bandaids ontop of the real problem, which is rampant and uncontrollable power creep. Without mentioning obvious problems of leather mobility, Time to kill is too fast. Time to heal is even faster. Both should be down by like 70% for the game's pvp to not be a laughable contest of 'who can stop the other healer from healing the longest'. The arenas themselves are honestly alright for what they are. It's the absolutely unacceptable class design that makes such changes seem like they'd be good for the game, without needing to rework it on a fundamental level.

To be fair in general, similar arena is good for healers esp low rating. Their teammates can't keep LoSing heals all the time, lol. Agree, arena supposed to feel kill or be killed/death sentence, not 'oh I'm just gonna run around until timeout'. Aye, was thinking teleports could be very strong. Then again, with similar arena ppl don't need so much mobility to actually catch ppl, so don't need so many teleports to get away either or could have longer cd and then it's fine

[docterfreeze]

I think many have, and ~none of them thought 'damn I'm being outplayed'. Has nothing to do with skill, abuse of flawed game mechanics

In the past each class had some way to outplay pillar humping. Now many of them can do nothing about it. There isn't a pillar humping problem there's a lack of abilities problem.

[Prode]

In the past each class had some way to outplay pillar humping. Now many of them can do nothing about it. There isn't a pillar humping problem there's a lack of abilities problem.

Nah I think you're mistaking 'had' with 'had to have'. It's a terrible thing developers surely aware of and trying to solve by stuffing mobility down every class' throat. Leading to ~every dps class being an essential race car and supposed to be heavy, slow moving warriors jumping around like monkeys etc

[docterfreeze]

Nah I think you're mistaking 'had' with 'had to have'. It's a terrible thing developers surely aware of and trying to solve by stuffing mobility down every class' throat. Leading to ~every dps class being an essential race car and supposed to be heavy, slow moving warriors jumping around like monkeys etc

We must be thinking of a different game. The things you describe are not what I experienced. The only race car specs are monks and warriors. Everyone else got hit with the prune bat. Demon hunters are close but they can't keep up with the two speed kings.

The pillar changes you suggest would doom any casters and healers, once a melee gets on them they'd be trapped. The eye change removes counterplay. If we have any more of that you might as well play cookie clicker, the game is way too simple as is. Removing mobility reduces outplay potential.

[Prode]

We must be thinking of a different game. The things you describe are not what I experienced. The only race car specs are monks and warriors. Everyone else got hit with the prune bat. Demon hunters are close but they can't keep up with the two speed kings.

The pillar changes you suggest would doom any casters and healers, once a melee gets on them they'd be trapped. The eye change removes counterplay. If we have any more of that you might as well play cookie clicker, the game is way too simple as is. Removing mobility reduces outplay potential.

Avoiding ranged attacks and casting is the whole point of obstacles in arena. Mitigating their use is hardly an advantage for melees.

You can only have so many abilities for a class, finite, ppl can't have 100 binds. Right now a lot of it is taken by various mobility and CC leaving nothing but a few dmg abilities and mechanics for the class' actual role. Removing abilities isn't the idea, but to make classes more reasonable, to be about what they should be about and replace/change/make new abilities for them

[Deleted]

i like that

[Druitz]

Stupid idea. It will disbalance arenas even more than its currently is. Healers already have hard time healing in legion - there is no reason to make it harder. Enjoy Fdk killing you because you cant kite 20 sec pillar of frost with this walls on pillars.

Also in 2v2 at high dampening game is more skill dependant. Kiting is so imporatnt at high dampening. If you can peel and kite 60%+ dampening incarnation it's much easier to win as druid will not get second incar (3 min cd). It will make game more healer tunneling than ever.

Also it will not favor melees as losing CC will become impossible. You can be trapped by using pillars? So how can you avoid getting CCed? Mage will just stand between two pillars so it will force you to change position because there is a wall. Maybe on 1500-2000 it will have low impact but 2200-2300+ people actually start thinking and it will make so many disadcantages for specific compositions.

[Prode]

The saddest part is you'd be flamed and downvoted into oblivion (if this forum had that) by a circlejerk of pvp healers who's years of mental gymnastics convinced them that pillarhumping for 15 minutes with nothing of note happening is how the game should be; But I do really love your idea. It would certainly make things feel more arena-like.

Agree that LoSing CC could usually be oft concern for healers. But as if it's easy to CC healer there, lol. Sure, can, but have to go rly offensive to CC for example the green team's healer at the back. Still it's possibly more reasonable that in case the enemy is out of cds, you can surely go in and catch them, unlike atm where ppl can often just run around until they get cds back etc.

- - - Updated - - -

Stupid idea. It will disbalance arenas even more than its currently is. Healers already have hard time healing in legion - there is no reason to make it harder. Enjoy Fdk killing you because you cant kite 20 sec pillar of frost with this walls on pillars.

Also in 2v2 at high dampening game is more skill dependant. Kiting is so imporatnt at high dampening. If you can peel and kite 60%+ dampening incarnation it's much easier to win as druid will not get second incar (3 min cd). It will make game more healer tunneling than ever.

Also it will not favor melees as losing CC will become impossible. You can be trapped by using pillars? So how can you avoid getting CCed? Mage will just stand between two pillars so it will force you to change position because there is a wall. Maybe on 1500-2000 it will have low impact but 2200-2300+ people actually start thinking and it will make so many disadcantages for specific compositions.

Maybe should try imagine if arenas had similar walls, then some came with 'we should remove those walls so I can run around forever yay'. It's much more ridiculous the other way around tbh

[Applenazi]

I think many have, and ~none of them thought 'damn I'm being outplayed'. Has nothing to do with skill, abuse of flawed game mechanics

If you aren't good enough to swap to the healer just mindlessly tunnel into something else. If you think that a pillar makes a person untouchable than it is absolutely a skill thing - you have none.

AMG HEALER KITING TOO POWERFUL GAIZ, CANT SPAM HAMSTRING, CANT GET CHALLENGER! Druid/MW under priest, pally, and shaman in ladder representation ATM, your complaint clearly valid as fuck.

[Appelgren]

This is the dumbest suggestion ive ever seen in my whole life of wow pvp.

[Thunderbleem]

I agree pillar humping is annoying and dumb, but unless they somehow manage to change how PvP gameplay works, without it healers would be borderline useless. It's a necessary part of the current game.

[Prode]

I agree pillar humping is annoying and dumb, but unless they somehow manage to change how PvP gameplay works, without it healers would be borderline useless. It's a necessary part of the current game.

As you mentioned prob gonna have to change some, possibly won't need as much mobility. Mages won't need 100 blinks to poly, and melees won't need 24/7 sprint to catch them either, and the target can LoS, but only for a short time, can catch him/get in LoS of him anyway so prob won't need random 3sec roots/stuns for every class to do dmg etc. Basically healers won't need to deal with random 2sec CC's all the time that makes the gameplay a miserable experience especially for casting and can have a much more reasonable overall gameplay

[therealstegblob]

Honestly, the LoS issue has, and will always be, a major issue with WoW PvP. On one hand, having no pillars present creates an issue of no LoS and therefore people are entirely vulnerable to slows, pulls, stuns, nukes, etc. Having any pillars present creates an issue of pillarhumping (this has always been a fucking problem, anyone saying BUH BACK IN DA DAY U COULD COUNTER IT is full of fucking shit).

The third alternative is having dynamic pillars that raise/lower, but then that's gimmicky and stupid and undependable and no one likes losing just because a pillar you were using for LoS suddenly fucking vanished.

The best alternative and the full answer? WoW PvP is shit from the ground-up and should never be taken seriously. The game is fundamentally flawed from a core point in design and movement, meaning the LoS issue has no real right answers. Deal with it or play a better PvP game, basically.

[nodq]

You guys know nothing about this stuff until you had the same experience I had back in Season 1/2 in TBC. As a SL/SL Warlock, chasing a pve resto Druid around Nagrand. Just took me around 7 hours until he disconnected. Since then I kinda have a hatred towards Druids.

[Riistov]

These suggestions sound like they're made from the perspective of someone who has never played anything other than melee. Have you tried healing in the current meta? Without the ability to break line of sight, casters/healers are at a massive disadvantage, and the game would devolve into triple demon hunter or triple dk comps with matches that are over in 15 seconds.

[therealstegblob]

Without the ability to break line of sight, casters/healers are at a massive disadvantage, and the game would devolve into triple demon hunter or triple dk comps with matches that are over in 15 seconds.

You say this as if healers losing a place in PvP and games being decided in quick-paced breakneck DPSvsDPS would be a problem, though.