Spoilers, preview of Before the Storm

[Djem]

Well you know whose grave is rumored to be in Stormwind.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT. You mean that one grave with the giant "L"?

How did this comment go unnoticed in this thread? This just blew my mind.

[Wildberry]

She complained because Garrosh hated every race in the Horde except Orcs, and tried to genocide the forsaken by sending them on a suicide mission into Gilneas... The only reason it didn't end as he intended was her use of the plague against orders.

Was extermination the intent there? Perhaps Garrosh had little regard for their losses, and was using them to minimize Orcish casualties. That's not genocide. It's not entirely unwarranted either, considering the fact that Orcs were suffering attacks on their homelands, because they didn't have the forces to retaliate, because they were defending the lands of non-Orcs.

Eventually we will get Siege of Thunder bluff and Kill Baine, calling it.

Eh, sticking with Sylvie is the best chance of sticking it to the people who think Cairne and Vol'jin helped found the Horde as a multicultural organization for peace-loving outcasts, so I suppose I'm for it. That aside, I will be looking forward to calling out a good ~50% of the Sylvanas brigade that opposed Garrosh for their hypocrisy.

[Villager720]

Not how plot armor works, by everyone's definition of it in these forums, every leader is encased in plot armor, until they die that is.

Only people with true plot armor are Anduin & Velen. We’ve seen that they’re still kicking “many years later”.

[Wildberry]

Something, something nukes, something victors write the history. Also are you seriously try to use modern day ethic to fantasy, medieval world?

Real life parallels don't work with the "muh war crimes" narrative anyway. Nuremberg was a miscarriage of justice, the USSR was never called out on their crimes, nor were the Western allies for their, admittedly fewer, crimes.

Plus, the initial reason chemical weapons were "outlawed" was because they were entirely unpredictable and ended up doing just as much damage to the force deploying them, as the force they were deployed against. Weapons that backfire on you because of the wind changing directions tend to be "banned" for practical reasons, not ethical ones.

[Fenixhart]

But what if I want to raid? Problem not solved

RP whatever the fuck you want and fuck whoever tells you otherwise.

RP kicking the crap out of all the raid bosses and personally harvesting ther corpses yourself

Find other people who are down with that.

This is like DnD guys it's not that hard.

[Schattenlied]

Was extermination the intent there? Perhaps Garrosh had little regard for their losses, and was using them to minimize Orcish casualties. That's not genocide. It's not entirely unwarranted either, considering the fact that Orcs were suffering attacks on their homelands, because they didn't have the forces to retaliate, because they were defending the lands of non-Orcs.

He started a war with a neutral non-hostile city state (Gilneas) who peacefully existed near the Undercity for over a decade, and used only forsaken troops to fight it... There was no war there until he made one... What other reason is there other than to kill off the forsaken.

[Darktbs]

Eventually we will get Siege of Thunder bluff and Kill Baine, calling it.

Nah, at this rate the Horde will be led by Gallywix after losing the 4th War in a row and Lor'th and Baine will join the Alliance, which will become a Neutral faction because Blizzard likes when Allys become neutral characters for some reason.

[Schattenlied]

Real life parallels don't work with the "muh war crimes" narrative anyway. Nuremberg was a miscarriage of justice, the USSR was never called out on their crimes, nor were the Western allies for their, admittedly fewer, crimes.

Plus, the initial reason chemical weapons were "outlawed" was because they were entirely unpredictable and ended up doing just as much damage to the force deploying them, as the force they were deployed against. Weapons that backfire on you because of the wind changing directions tend to be "banned" for practical reasons, not ethical ones.

a whole lot more than just chemical weapons are banned.

[Wildberry]

He started a war with a neutral non-hostile city state (Gilneas), and used only forsaken troops to fight it... There was no war there until he made one to kill the forsaken.

Okay? That's literally not genocide.

Also, Garrosh needed a viable port in Southern Lordaeron. It's likely that the offensive in Gilneas was part of the same overarching plan involving the Horde in Vashj'ir (Garrosh wanted the recently raised island to be a staging point for the eventual attack on Stormwind).

Attacking a neutral/non-hostile nation/kingdom to secure a geographic advantage against the people you're actually attacking isn't "unheard of" or "crazy." It's actually pretty common, historically, since we're making irl parallels, apparently. The Germans did this with the Schlieffen Plan, which was roughly followed in WWI (Germany invaded Belgium to attack France).

- - - Updated - - -

a whole lot more than just chemical weapons are banned.

How often do victors face consequences for violating those bans? I mean the U.S. definitely was punished after Fallujah, right?

[Taeldorian]

Super hyped.

[Aucald]

Let's veer away from the real-world politics and examples - feel free to talk about Warcraft history, but leave the rest out of it.

[Soeroah]

Damn it. This doesn't bode well.

I don't want Sylvanas OR Jaina to be written off as bad guys. At least not suddenly and overtly.

[Djem]

Let's veer away from the real-world politics and examples - feel free to talk about Warcraft history, but leave the rest out of it.

Ban me daddy

[Darktbs]

You think that after 2 Warchiefs dead in a row, Sylvanas would stay down and be chill.

Well...lets start the threads of "who will be the next Warchief?"

[Daevelian]

I hate how all the awesome hints come out while i'm sleeping... Mrrgrrgrr.

So, i guess this long awaited plan of hers matches up with the Varimathras quotes from Antorus yeah? And to think people thought those VERY CLEARLY FORSAKEN quotes were centred around Jaina *rolls eyes*. You know, i'm of half a mind to go find those people swearing black n blue about it being Jaina and just linking them here for fun, but eh, i'll let them cry about it on their own terms.

Regardless, if this is the direction Warcraft is about to take, i'm pretty damn interested. Moreso than i was for WoD and Legion. Part of me hopes that her siege of Stormwind fails (rather than attacking a city for a raid, we defend it maybe? horde and alliance both against the renegade lunatic?), forcing her to find yet another means of power, such as heading to Northrend and killing Bolvar, taking the crown for herself.

Edit: Actually, i will be that guy.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...s-The-Alliance

From page 11 onwards, it gets really fun. Are all these people willing to finally eat their god damned words?

[Xanataur]

Quote Originally Posted by Xanataur:
So the second part about sylvanas is very clear. but i dont really understand the opening of the chapter with the goblins? they are inspecting rocks talking about how much one of them hates thousand needles and then there meter goes off the chart? What is the meter? lol sry for being pleb here
maybe it will be better explained in the full book

maybe it will be better explained in the full book

I understand that and agree more will be revealed. But I'm just curious about the first part because I almost feel like the second part is so baited that its a false flag to distract from what we really just read and don't think to deep about it. For example, what are the goblins jobs? we know one isnt from thousand needles and essentially mentions the cataclysm making it too hot to live there is what i infer. What are they scanning rocks for? What makes them put their hands in fist and say "we can eliminate the competition now"? Did they find a leyline that connects to the world soul or one of the three wells somehow? Did they find titan engineering to possibly create a tinkerer?

[delus]

I hate how all the awesome hints come out while i'm sleeping... Mrrgrrgrr.

So, i guess this long awaited plan of hers matches up with the Varimathras quotes from Antorus yeah? And to think people thought those VERY CLEARLY FORSAKEN quotes were centred around Jaina *rolls eyes*. You know, i'm of half a mind to go find those people swearing black n blue about it being Jaina and just linking them here for fun, but eh, i'll let them cry about it on their own terms.

Regardless, if this is the direction Warcraft is about to take, i'm pretty damn interested. Moreso than i was for WoD and Legion. Part of me hopes that her siege of Stormwind fails (rather than attacking a city for a raid, we defend it maybe? horde and alliance both against the renegade lunatic?), forcing her to find yet another means of power, such as heading to Northrend and killing Bolvar, taking the crown for herself.

Edit: Actually, i will be that guy.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...s-The-Alliance

From page 11 onwards, it gets really fun. Are all these people willing to finally eat their god damned words?

Well obviously because Jaina and Varimathras are besties and those quotes had nothing to do with the years he spent in undercity working for sylvanas.

[Daevelian]

Well obviously because Jaina and Varimathras are besties and those quotes had nothing to do with the years he spent in undercity working for sylvanas.

Aye, though as you read through the thread, there are people straight up rejecting the idea that it could be anyone but Jaina. But hey, at least i got the last laugh now?

It's the little things in life that count.

Edit to add: Though, my favourite is a group of particular forsaken circle jerkers going on about how Sylvanas would NEVER even dare to do something like attack Stormwind.

[Beulah]

Yeah, I'm sure Lor'themar or Gallywix kicking the bucket would have as much effect on the fanbase as Sylv, because she clearly doesn't have a massive fanbase and Blizzard doesn't care about this sort of thing /s.

What are you talking about exactly. Blizzard just released "we are going to make this character a raid boss" story for Sylvanas and you still talking about plot armor. If you looking for actual plot armor look at the Anduin first. Anduin got a prophecy for his name and we actually saw Anduin is going to be alive until old age in that comic.

Alliance fanboys are really trying so hard sometimes.

[McCulloch]

I know someone threw out the idea that Sylvanas isn't attacking Stormwind to destroy it, but for something more specific. Maybe to get the bodies of people in the graveyard, but what if she's going after the body of Arthas. We never did learn where it went and there is this tombstone that no one knows what it's for and it has the crest of Lordaeron on it.