Final Raid: Siege of Stormwind

[Myta]

This raid isn't like SoO where Anduin goes rogue, this is a Alliance vs Horde raid. As was hinted at during Blizzcon, there's no reason we can't have Alliance vs Horde raids.

The Horde takes the role of sieging Stormwind, and the Alliance fight them off. It's the same raid, but each side of the conflict is completely different. Think of encounters like SoO but each side of the conflict is different, ending with a climactic battle between Sylvanas as the Alliance boss, and Greymane as the Horde boss.

[DanThePaladin]

That makes......little to no sense at all.

[Camthur]

The Horde having the forces to besiege Stormwind seems next to impossible. They've been lagging behind the Alliance ever since the end of MoP. If anything, if somebody was going to besiege another city, it would be the Alliance outside Org again. That being said, after the whole "own most of the continent" thing comes to pass, it would take some significant planning and logistics to move an army from one continent to land way across the ocean to besiege the other guy.

Also, how do you besiege a city that has a heavily protected tram line that goes directly to outside supplies and reinforcements?

[Igneous42]

The problem with a raid like that, and Alliance vs Horde raids, in general, is they have to mirror the experience. That is why we always get the same raids and dungeons because they can't actually design two seperate raids. I mean theoretically they could but it wouldn't smart. Balance between the two would be a huge concern, it would also mess up world first races and such and ultimately most likely lead to smaller raids since they would essetially have to design two raids at once for one tier. At most we may see some bosses skin swaps based on faction, thing like Faction champs and gunship in ICC. I doubt we'll get an entire raid where that is the whole theme outside of a 1 or 2 boss raid.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Yeah a final raid without a sensible canon ending, sounds great.. not.
Or would have you have us zerg like a pug bg at the gates of stormwind? Sounds like a truly awful and lazy raid or an incredibly unbalanced one where lots of resources are wasted, resulting in everyone getting essentially only half a raid.

[Deleted]

I don't think it would go over too well with mythic raiding scene. Unless boss mechanics for each faction would be a carbon copy of the other faction's mechanics.

[Myta]

The problem with a raid like that, and Alliance vs Horde raids, in general, is they have to mirror the experience. That is why we always get the same raids and dungeons because they can't actually design two seperate raids. I mean theoretically they could but it wouldn't smart. Balance between the two would be a huge concern, it would also mess up world first races and such and ultimately most likely lead to smaller raids since they would essetially have to design two raids at once for one tier. At most we may see some bosses skin swaps based on faction, thing like Faction champs and gunship in ICC. I doubt we'll get an entire raid where that is the whole theme outside of a 1 or 2 boss raid.

What world first race?

Seriously, we shouldn't design raids for 20 players competing against only themselves and thus never innovate or do anything different because Method must be catered to.

It's a horrible business model and it's about time Blizzard stop treating world firsts like they matter, they used to matter, now they're meaningless. Both in logs and in raids, that aspect of WoW died a while ago.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Lore nightmare.

[Eurhetemec]

This raid isn't like SoO where Anduin goes rogue, this is a Alliance vs Horde raid. As was hinted at during Blizzcon, there's no reason we can't have Alliance vs Horde raids.

The Horde takes the role of sieging Stormwind, and the Alliance fight them off. It's the same raid, but each side of the conflict is completely different. Think of encounters like SoO but each side of the conflict is different, ending with a climactic battle between Sylvanas as the Alliance boss, and Greymane as the Horde boss.

This is DEFINITELY NOT the case and NO, Blizzard did not "hint at it". On the contrary, they said that so far all the raids designed had the same bosses on both sides, just a different storyline to the raid, and when it was suggested that maybe they should have some H/A specific bosses, they said they might consider it.

If you think that's a hint that the final raid is HvA, you are are being incredibly silly and spreading misinformation.

- - - Updated - - -

Lore nightmare.

Luckily it's completely made up drivel. The poster's theory, that is not, WoW lore, thooooough...

[DanThePaladin]

What world first race?

Seriously, we shouldn't design raids for 20 players competing against only themselves and thus never innovate or do anything different because Method must be catered to.

It's a horrible business model and it's about time Blizzard stop treating world firsts like they matter, they used to matter, now they're meaningless. Both in logs and in raids, that aspect of WoW died a while ago.

It still wouldn't work from a raid mechanic standpoint regardless of whether it was designed for Mythic World First or not.
You'd basically have to design 2 raids for the same tier, with 2 different set of bosses and 2 totally different sets of mechanics. (Meaning it would take however much longer than everything else)
You can't have Sylvanas and Greymane have the same abilities it makes absolutely no sense.
Also how would you put up a Dark Ranger like Sylvanas against Anduin has a priest and have everything that would even be close to the same thing.

Good idea, terrible for this game.

[Myta]

This is DEFINITELY NOT the case and NO, Blizzard did not "hint at it". On the contrary, they said that so far all the raids designed had the same bosses on both sides, just a different storyline to the raid, and when it was suggested that maybe they should have some H/A specific bosses, they said they might consider it.

If you think that's a hint that the final raid is HvA, you are are being incredibly silly and spreading misinformation.

No, Ion specifically said there's no reason a raid boss couldn't be a member of the Horde or the Alliance.

Honestly all the attempts to go "But then the Old Gods show up!" will frankly ruin the expansion. It'll be a biggest cop-out when the goal with BfA clearly is trying to reflect Horde vs Alliance at all levels of gameplay, not just PVP and quests. Something they have not done before.

[Azahel]

The Horde having the forces to besiege Stormwind seems next to impossible. They've been lagging behind the Alliance ever since the end of MoP. If anything, if somebody was going to besiege another city, it would be the Alliance outside Org again. That being said, after the whole "own most of the continent" thing comes to pass, it would take some significant planning and logistics to move an army from one continent to land way across the ocean to besiege the other guy.

Also, how do you besiege a city that has a heavily protected tram line that goes directly to outside supplies and reinforcements?

It's not like blizzard cares about these details about size or armies, resources or even population for that matter. Hell, at this point the Horde shouldn't be able to pose a true challenge for the Alliance at all, but all in the name of faction balance...

[Eurhetemec]

No, Ion specifically said there's no reason a raid boss couldn't be a member of the Horde or the Alliance.

That's not bloody "hinting at the final raid being HvA", and he didn't react in a way that suggested they were already planning it - quite the opposite.

Honestly all the attempts to go "But then the Old Gods show up!" will frankly ruin the expansion. It'll be a biggest cop-out when the goal with BfA clearly is trying to reflect Horde vs Alliance at all levels of gameplay, not just PVP and quests. Something they have not done before.

Sticking to the plotline established in Legion is a "cop out" that will "ruin the expansion". Mmmmkay...

[Bas Prime]

Also, how do you besiege a city that has a heavily protected tram line that goes directly to outside supplies and reinforcements?

Heavily protected tram line. Could you explain where this line is heavily protected? You mean by the glaswindows? I think this is more of a weak spot than a real defensive barrier.

I think if someone would ask if it would be possible for the Alliance to besiege Orgrimmar before we knew there would be the Siege as a Raid, people would say the same as to why this would be impossible.
If Blizz wants to besiege Stormwind as a raid, they will pull it off. No matter what you think would be impossible. They just would find a way of explaining it (Tauren Paladins, Shamans on Alliance, Time Travel etc)

Horde destroyed, again, destroyed, Darnassus. You think this would be impossible. I would have said that would be impossible and that Blizz would never do that. Undercity has fallen, the city is in "more" ruins, the Forsaken had to retreat. That would have been waved away as impossible some weeks, some days ago. Remember Theramore? I am not saying they will do it, since I dont know. But I know for sure, that IF they want to let the Horde knock on Stormwinds Gates, they will pull that off.

[Camthur]

Heavily protected tram line. Could you explain where this line is heavily protected? You mean by the glaswindows? I think this is more of a weak spot than a real defensive barrier.

Sure, it's glass, but if they were at war, the Alliance would have all manner of ships, subs, mines, etc in that bay area. (and probably air ships patrolling the coastline) Good luck getting anywhere near it without first winning a major sea battle. Also, that water is pretty deep. We have no idea what they might have done to make a material strong enough to stand up to all that pressure.

[DJ117]

No. What will happen is that the expansion will lead up to the return of the Old Gods. Azshara has been confirmed to show. I think she’ll be the final boss.

[Bas Prime]

Sure, it's glass, but if they were at war, the Alliance would have all manner of ships, subs, mines, etc in that bay area. (and probably air ships patrolling the coastline) Good luck getting anywhere near it without first winning a major sea battle. Also, that water is pretty deep. We have no idea what they might have done to make a material strong enough to stand up to all that pressure.

We ARE at war. But maybe when you travel with the tram in BfA you can see small subs and divers, maybe an airship is stationed there. This would be cool if they would think about stuff like that. Still, just one Forsaken sneaking on the bottom of the sea would have to make it though with a bomb. But sure, they could have strong defense there. But that means that those troops are missing at another vital spot. The Harbour would be besieged, Horde could land in Westfall and start from there. or all this together. Or nothing of that.
Still, I am sure that a Siege is possible since Orgrimmar could be besieged. So Blizz just has to say it will be, and there will be a siege. I think we cant approach this topic with the knowlege we have or logic.

[Camthur]

There's also the little matter of there being two tunnels and it might be tough to knock both out of commission permanently. The stretch with glass is actually pretty small, so they might even be able to retrofit it with armor if they had to. (also it's magic and goes east to west, so good luck finding it Horde)

[ryanmahaffe]

This expansion isn't MoP, where Garrosh went evil and was the main bad guy. There is no big bad on the ALly or horde this time, it's all grey. The big bad will be old god related.

[Deleted]

The only way I could see them do this is if Stormwind has to be taken back from an unforseen enemy that has taken it. Like... I don't know.. a certain Black Dragon suddenly goes 'whohooo, surprise, I'm evil and this time I'm killing you all myself'. Or the corpse of Arthas Menethil is indeed in that unnamed grave on the graveyard and something happens there, which would also give the Horde a reason to want to go there maybe.
They won't make it a PvP thing, because it could never be resolved then. They didn't do that with Orgrimmar and they won't do it with Stormwind, I think.


Edit: I just noticed... I want them to make it happen so we can have a raid that's called SoS