Here's a crazy idea...

[Flurryfang]

But if you want QoL changes you are not one of the people who spent years asking for Vanilla.

I've been following the scene for a long time and i have NEVER seen this in ANY threads about legacy servers prior the announcement.

This "QoL" thing only started after the announcement and is people who never asked for Vanilla.
It's people who "Oh well, maybe i will play Vanilla. Maybe. Maybe if it has QoL improvements. Maybe"

See where i am going?

Very few people have been asking for Vanilla for years. If Blizzard made Classic just for these people, the servers would be very empty. The people who are gonna play these servers are mostly gonna be the people, who have been in the middle. People who like the idea of playing old school WoW, but who don't really mind the current version either.

Just because the QoL thing started after the announcement, does not mean it has no importance. This thing might the defining factor for alot of people to play Classic servers and i bet you Blizzard are aware of this. So just because people have not been fighting for Vanilla servers before the announcement, does not mean that these people don't have the right to a voice in this, especially when it is supposedly gonna be a heavy community project.

[Deleted]

Truth to be told there is only one "pure and true Vanilla". History has already been written. The only questions we need to ask ourselves are: "Do we want bug/glitch fixes?". Any other question/idea/improvement etc. is altering Vanilla, which does not make it Vanilla any more. We can not start cherrypicking or we will fuck up this chance for a legacy/vanilla server and we will have Blizzard 2018 revamped "Classic" ReMaster World of Warcraft 2.0.

[Flurryfang]

Well i draw the line when a simple change will change the gameplay of it. No matter how minimal.

If we change class balance and everyone is powerful like a rogue and a warrior the bosses will drop in half a second.
If we implement LFD and LFR the sense of community will die just like in retail.
Transmog, people will no longer look at eachother like in the old days.
CRZ will create anonymity and indiference towards other players.

Anything that changes the feel of playing Vanilla as it was. The slightest of change will change everything.

So you would not have a problem with an updated UI, like the new version of group and raid set ups?

What about key rings, pets and mounts taps? Are they okay?

Quest helper?

[Deleted]

So, then, presumably, you're actually not okay with the Battle.net integration which will have a however minor impact on gameplay experience due to the ability to engage in cross-faction conversation rather than the pseudo-mystery it was in Vanilla unless you go to the bother of making an alt?

Very minimal but you did say

The list kind of goes on as well in terms of things Blizzard cannot control (knowledge of the playerbase now vs then).

I'm starting to lose my mind over this
Just LOOK at this thread

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...lassic-servers

"For those who wont play on Classic servers, What changes will make you change your mind ?"

WTH is this? Now we have to cater to the people who don't even want to play on Classic? Sucky, Sucky 5 dolla?
This is driving me insane.
If someone doesn't want to play Vanilla then go play retail!

Classic was made for people who actually want to play Vanilla as it was. This is not a project to cater to the whole community.

Seriously, if Blizzard doesnt realese "Vanilla as it was" it will not appeal to ANYONE.
Vanilla crowd will be disappointed
People who asked for QoL changes will go play retail. Because guess what? They never wanted Vanilla in the first place.
No one will play classic if this nonsense goes forward because EVERYONE will be disappointed.

[Deleted]

Just to reiterate - this thread isn't about what people actually want out of vanilla...

It's just about being respectful to eachothers viewpoints.

Even people who want all of those changes still want Vanilla - they just want some strawberry syrup and some sprinkles on top too. Maybe strawberry syrup isn't your thing. I personally prefer chocolate, and the sprinkles hurt my teeth, but I'll eat anything provided the vanilla icecream is good vanilla icecream.

We can draw the line at gameplay changes. Quest markers introduced in BC. LFG (auto queue), lfr obvi, different raid difficulties. The list goes on. I see both sides of this discussion, but I have to side with the "hardcore and elitists" on this one. You want vanilla/classic, here you go.

In that framework then I probably side with the so called "hardcore and elitists" too.

And what it should be, is what it -was-. Nothing more, nothing less.

That's pretty much it.

Cool opinion.

[RelaZ]

Fully agree with OP.

It's sad to see that even in this thread some people go in and do exactly what OP said people should refrain from doing, claiming their own opinion as somehow better and correct.

[Deleted]

I'm starting to lose my mind over this
Just LOOK at this thread

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...lassic-servers

"For those who wont play on Classic servers, What changes will make you change your mind ?"

WTH is this? Now we have to cater to the people who don't even want to play on Classic? Sucky, Sucky 5 dolla?
This is driving me insane.
If someone doesn't want to play Vanilla then go play retail!

Classic was made for people who actually want to play Vanilla as it was. This is not a project to cater to the whole community. Is a project for people who asked for Vanilla as it was.

Seriously, if Blizzard doesnt realese "Vanilla as it was" it will not appeal to ANYONE.
Vanilla crowd will be disappointed
People who asked for QoL changes will go play retail. Because guess what? They never wanted Vanilla in the first place.
No one will play classic if this nonsense goes forward.

You didn't address my quote but linked it all the same, I am confused.

[Deleted]

You didn't address my quote but linked it all the same, I am confused.

Im sorry, i completely lost my mind when i saw that thread.

It's hard for me to "draw a line" because when do we stop after making a couple changes? Where is the line?

I would say the line is when gameplay changes. Both social and in action.
I dont mind the Battlenet thing nor the graphics because it doesnt change that much of anything.

[Deleted]

I'm starting to lose my mind over this
Just LOOK at this thread

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...lassic-servers

"For those who wont play on Classic servers, What changes will make you change your mind ?"

WTH is this? Now we have to cater to the people who don't even want to play on Classic? Sucky, Sucky 5 dolla?
This is driving me insane.
If someone doesn't want to play Vanilla then go play retail!

Classic was made for people who actually want to play Vanilla as it was. This is not a project to cater to the whole community.

Seriously, if Blizzard doesnt realese "Vanilla as it was" it will not appeal to ANYONE.
Vanilla crowd will be disappointed
People who asked for QoL changes will go play retail. Because guess what? They never wanted Vanilla in the first place.
No one will play classic if this nonsense goes forward because EVERYONE will be disappointed.

Exactly how I see it.

[Niffo]

But if you want QoL changes you are not one of the people who spent years asking for Vanilla.

So Classic WoW is only for the people that have asked for it?

[Deleted]

Im sorry, i completely lost my mind when i saw that thread.

It's hard for me to "draw a line" because when do we stop after making a couple changes? Where is the line?

I would say the line is when gameplay changes. Both social and in action.
I dont mind the Battlenet thing nor the graphics because it doesnt change that much of anything.

So, I suppose, the position you take in summary is that you're not against minimal changes so long as they do not impact the core gameplay experience?

Gets complicated I think, doesn't it? Sorry for being so challenging, but I am trying to make the point that no ones viewpoint is correct - even you by stating that you're okay with a change have probably alienated yourself from the "elitist elite" who will accept absolutely no changes whatsoever.


So I go back to my original point -

No one is right or wrong - it's all a matter of opinion and we all actually want roughly the same thing - Classic WoW in some way shape or form.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

I think the primary discussion should be whether its 1.0 or 1.12 Classic, anything outside of that should be off the table.

This is my correct opinion, which is right.

[Slashnox]

Vanilla WoW is coming, and we've been fighting for it to come for years.

Now if you're new to the Vanilla WoW train, welcome, know that we want it unchanged and we don't want graphical, balance or quality of life improvements EVEN THOUGH we are well aware of how great those things are in your current retail WoW.

[Protean]

But if you want QoL changes you are not one of the people who spent years asking for Vanilla.

I've been following the scene for a long time and i have NEVER seen this in ANY threads about legacy servers prior the announcement.

This "QoL" thing only started after the announcement and is people who never asked for Vanilla.
It's people who "Oh well, maybe i will play Vanilla. Maybe. Maybe if it has QoL improvements. Maybe"

See where i am going?

Yes and no.

That's perfectly natural. The original discussion has been completely removed with the confirmation from Blizzard. The natural next step is discussing how to implement. Not if. After all, there's no sense in discussing how it would be implemented when the forum was absolutely saturated with Vanilla WoW will never ever happen-babies.

[Derecho]

I'm starting to lose my mind over this
Just LOOK at this thread

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...lassic-servers

"For those who wont play on Classic servers, What changes will make you change your mind ?"

WTH is this? Now we have to cater to the people who don't even want to play on Classic? Sucky, Sucky 5 dolla?
This is driving me insane.
If someone doesn't want to play Vanilla then go play retail!

Classic was made for people who actually want to play Vanilla as it was. This is not a project to cater to the whole community. Is a project for people who asked for Vanilla as it was.

Seriously, if Blizzard doesnt realese "Vanilla as it was" it will not appeal to ANYONE.
Vanilla crowd will be disappointed
People who asked for QoL changes will go play retail. Because guess what? They never wanted Vanilla in the first place.
No one will play classic if this nonsense goes forward.

First of all, the fact that you call current WoW "retail" just points to the fact that you've been playing on a private server. Probably for free. Unless you have an active account, it's not your money that's going to make this project happen, it's the people currently subscribed and paying for any of Blizzard's games or products.

I played late beta and since Vanilla launched. I like the idea of classic servers. I didn't campaign for them because Blizzard gave more negative vibes about a vanilla server than positive ones before the big announcement. That being said, I'm a paying customer of theirs, so yes, I will weigh in on this.

The downside to making some QoL changes (none of the ones you mentioned - CRZ, mog, etc- these are dumb QoL that I don't see many people campaigning for anyway) is far less than the downside of launching Vanilla as it was at launch.


People begging for Vanilla WoW will still play the game if QoL things like dual talent spec are also part of the game. There are many things that positively impact game play without altering the essence of what you miss. The grind, the communal aspect, certain classes and specs being awful and boring. Looking like a clown.

Would it kill them to have BWL bosses drop 5-7 pieces of loot instead of 2-3? Does that ruin your gaming experience?

Too many try-hards and cry babies trying to stomp out the opinion of others. If you don't like it, go back to your private server experience. The rest of us will give feedback to Blizzard for Classic in the way we see fit.

[Deleted]

Vanilla WoW is coming, and we've been fighting for it to come for years.

Now if you're new to the Vanilla WoW train, welcome, know that we want it unchanged and we don't want graphical, balance or quality of life improvements EVEN THOUGH we are well aware of how great those things are in your current retail WoW.

And your viewpoint is the most correct because you've had it longer?



Again not saying I disagree with the idea itself, just with your assumption that it is more valid than anyone elses for such a poor reason.

[Kirchhoff]

But if you want QoL changes you are not one of the people who spent years asking for Vanilla.

I've been following the scene for a long time and i have NEVER seen this in ANY threads about legacy servers prior the announcement.

This "QoL" thing only started after the announcement and is people who never asked for Vanilla.
It's people who "Oh well, maybe i will play Vanilla. Maybe. Maybe if it has QoL improvements. Maybe"

See where i am going?

Everyone is shocked to see that, now that classic is announced, everyone wants changes made to it. For years in the private server community, that was looked down on, with "blizz like" being a (the) server type. Now don't get me wrong, there were custom servers and people who enjoyed them, but they were the minority; not even close to the number of people who are asking for "custom" changes now. Why is that?

My theory is that, people have always wanted changes to vanilla (there are serious flaws). However, if you wanted changes made, that meant you were doomed to play on a private server with, at best, a few hundred people. Also, you were at the mercy of a development team with 0 experience working out of their basement on weekends. Until now. Now, we have the opportunity to have the best MMO development team in the world make changes and have confidence population won't be an issue.

So, while it appears that these people came out of the wood work, or are just jumping on the bandwagon, or are live players looking for something different, the truth is that they have been here next to you for a long time. They like vanilla and want to play it, just like you. But they see an opportunity.

[BobJohn]

So Classic WoW is only for the people that have asked for it?

It's for everybody , however the reason why it's being implemented is because of a community that fought for it for years. You change the game, that community likely goes away. If Blizzards intentions are not to target that community, changing the game makes sense. But what the community is frustrated about is whether Blizzard is blowing smoke ('saying they are going to release classic, but instead releases Classic+) or are they giving the Legacy community what they want. Because we know what they want. An unchanged Vanilla game.

Frankly , if anyone is proposing changes that are beyond trivial they are being pretty damn unfair to the Legacy community. However, life is unfair. If the Legacy community wants to make sure it's done right by them, they will have to make themselves heard instead of assuming Blizzard knows what they want.

[Niffo]

Vanilla WoW is coming, and we've been fighting for it to come for years.

Now if you're new to the Vanilla WoW train, welcome, know that we want it unchanged and we don't want graphical, balance or quality of life improvements EVEN THOUGH we are well aware of how great those things are in your current retail WoW.

Who is we? Really, who do you even think you are? You're not alone. The ''vets'' aren't alone. Everyone has a different way of thinking how this should be done. And probably the only one who knows and chooses what is going to change is Blizzard. So stop acting like you own the place and accept discussion about this. Simply saying I WANT THAT OR NOTHING is not relevant in a discussion. There's gonna be compromises.

[Zenfoldor]

I think they could semi-balance the dps and hps with pure throughput buffs or nerfs and maybe increase the dot limit. I wouldn't mind a 5% increase to boss health in raids to make up for the dot expansion.

A light hand is needed, but I'm afraid Blizzard is incapable, so perhaps leaving it alone is ideal.