How the Horde can keep up with the Alliance?

[Balinus]

Honestly, lets have a recap, and if u have any on the Alliance side, please post:
1- Vanilla nothing really big happens
2- TBC as well, we got reinforced by each 1 faction that is relatively weak [ in terms of numbers and contrinutions ].
3- WotLK the Horde side, specifically the Forsaken have a civil war, with BOTH Alliance and Horde sieging it. I think the Horde lost big time here. Since we dont know what is cannon in the Gunship battle, and even if Alliance lost it, it isnt a big deal.
4- Cata there were lots of skirmishes, but i dont remember anything really specific that i would say were huge losses.
5- MoP.....hummmm here it gets interesting. Okay we lost Theramore and lots of big peeps there, but only served that the Horde lost Dalaran support. Then Horde gets a civil was AGAIN! Both factions siege Orgrimmar, cant say that isnt a big loss.
6- WoD i dont remember anything specifically.
7- Legion, we all lost, but idont think one lost more than the other.
And now with BoA, Alliance loose another small city, while the Horde looses a big one.
So with that in mind, am I wrong to say taht the Horde should be a lot weaker than Alliance?
ps: A forgot to mention that Garrosh even got his ass kicked in the novels, but aside from that i dont rmemeber much from it.

[MatthiasLehner]

Yeah.. I don't know if these are retcon'd but I remember reading things about Sylvanas worrying about UC and Silvermoon's status if Alliance goes full on war mode, because Stormwind alone can handle the rest of the Alliance forces combined, meaning it's as strong as, or stronger than UC + SM. If I'm correct, SW has the most dominant force in-game and in books both, as an individual "racial" force.

Is the Horde really great at reproducing and replenishing lost forces or something? Even technological development wise, they constantly mention that Gnomes are slightly more advanced than Goblins, though Goblins were definitely a huge addition to the Horde to "catch up" with the Alliance's tech.

[Diamondium]

I think Cataclysm had a bigger impact on Horde strength than you are remembering. All of their old-world questing stuff seems quite focused on their war machine building at full force, with improved forts all over and seizing of resources lots throughout the old world. I would definitely argue they had quite a supply and war strength bolstering during that time.

Maybe not enough to compensate fully for their combined losses over the course of the expansions, but it evens things out a bit at least.

[Balinus]

Yeah.. I don't know if these are retcon'd but I remember reading things about Sylvanas worrying about UC and Silvermoon's status if Alliance goes full on war mode, because Stormwind alone can handle the rest of the Alliance forces combined, meaning it's as strong as, or stronger than UC + SM. If I'm correct, SW has the most dominant force in-game and in books both, as an individual "racial" force.

Is the Horde really great at reproducing and replenishing lost forces or something? Even technological development wise, they constantly mention that Gnomes are slightly more advanced than Goblins, though Goblins were definitely a huge addition to the Horde to "catch up" with the Alliance's tech.

The goblins arent a huge in terms of numbers, cuz only the goblins from Kezan are Horde. Just like only Darkspear trolls pre BoA were Horde. But yeah they are the gnomes of the Horde side, and that is huge.

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I think Cataclysm had a bigger impact on Horde strength than you are remembering. All of their old-world questing stuff seems quite focused on their war machine building at full force, with improved forts all over and seizing of resources lots throughout the old world. I would definitely argue they had quite a supply and war strength bolstering during that time.

Maybe not enough to compensate fully for their combined losses over the course of the expansions, but it evens things out a bit at least.

But then the Civil War came in Pandaria, Garrosh prob used most of it.

[Saluna]

The reason I think the Alliance is getting big spotlight and great military pride restored is due to the fact that they were casted in the shadows for a long time.

-Cata : Thrall center of the expansion (although he became neutral it is seen as a Horde centric xpac)
-MoP : Garrosh goes ape shit (seen as Horde expansion)
-WoD : Has orcs... lotta of works. Horde related expansion (I disagree on that one massively but wtv)

Legion and BfA is a way to correct the spotlight and the epicness of the Alliance.

I am a Horde player and I do agree that during Cata & Mop I felt the Alliance to be a small player, not really glorious...
In Legion I felt they were taking back their spot as equal power to the Horde.


With BfA... I feel they are badly stomping the Horde in a classic (but boring) Bad Guys vs Good Guys.

Can the Horde keep up? Technically no.
-BE lost a lot of their top mage with the purge of Dalaran
-Orcs were killed in tons during the Siege of Org
-Trolls, probably lost quite a few when they tried to retake their islands
-Taurens : Probably the most stable
-Undead : Although some can be rezzed they are decaying (puns intended)
-Goblins : Not meaningful military just putting the Horde tech in par (although lower) than the Alliance.

[Ulthane]

Losing Teldrassil from general player perspective: meh

Losing Teldrassil from lore perspective: we got fucked hard.

[Diamondium]

But then the Civil War came in Pandaria, Garrosh prob used most of it.

True, but all the infrastructure built during that time remained post civil war. Even though they had losses in the civil war, Cataclysm's events still set them up to be on a more even footing long-term due to stuff like that. All their outposts and Orgrimmar are still more heavily fortified because of that, and they have improved abilities to gather resources and replenish war strength.

It's also worth noting that while Goblin tech may be behind Gnomes in war tech, they are undoubtedly the top in economy-based tech. Having Goblin-influenced economies probably helps massively in the resource allocation department, and probably gives them the overall economy/supplies advantage over the Alliance.

But like I said, it doesn't compensate fully, just a factor.

[Jujudrood]

Losing Teldrassil from general player perspective: meh

Losing Teldrassil from lore perspective: we got fucked hard.

This.
That's kind of a huge deal.
When I first read that, I thought "shit is going down!".
Losing UC sucks, sure, but damn...

[Balinus]

This.
That's kind of a huge deal.
When I first read that, I thought "shit is going down!".
Losing UC sucks, sure, but damn...

Why lore-wise it is a huge deal? I didnt played NE starting zone so i may be loosing some info.

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Also regarding the topic [ that is the real reason i started it here ] prob that is the reason that the Horde lost Undercity? Alliance and Horde clashing face to face Horde looses? Maybe they will need to wins some battles like Rob Stark from GoT, lesser numbers, more tactics and strategy? Because numbers arent all.

[lightofdawn]

Honestly, lets have a recap, and if u have any on the Alliance side, please post:
1- Vanilla nothing really big happens
2- TBC as well, we got reinforced by each 1 faction that is relatively weak [ in terms of numbers and contrinutions ].
3- WotLK the Horde side, specifically the Forsaken have a civil war, with BOTH Alliance and Horde sieging it. I think the Horde lost big time here. Since we dont know what is cannon in the Gunship battle, and even if Alliance lost it, it isnt a big deal.
4- Cata there were lots of skirmishes, but i dont remember anything really specific that i would say were huge losses.
5- MoP.....hummmm here it gets interesting. Okay we lost Theramore and lots of big peeps there, but only served that the Horde lost Dalaran support. Then Horde gets a civil was AGAIN! Both factions siege Orgrimmar, cant say that isnt a big loss.
6- WoD i dont remember anything specifically.
7- Legion, we all lost, but idont think one lost more than the other.
And now with BoA, Alliance loose another small city, while the Horde looses a big one.
So with that in mind, am I wrong to say taht the Horde should be a lot weaker than Alliance?
ps: A forgot to mention that Garrosh even got his ass kicked in the novels, but aside from that i dont rmemeber much from it.

without the blood elves, mists of pandaria wouldve began and ended differently as it was the reliquary that uncovered the mogu artifacts that led to the heart of yshaarj, and aethas sunreaver that let the saboteurs through portals in dalaran

without the draenei, good luck getting to argus. and the legion wins

on topic: the alliance lost much more of a high priority city. Most of the undercity's value is underground, and can be evacuated via the sewer drains that lead out of the hub. Teldrassil has one entrance/exit. good luck getting one of the most populated races out of a small hole while flaming chunks of world tree are raining down on them

[Ulthane]

This.
That's kind of a huge deal.
When I first read that, I thought "shit is going down!".
Losing UC sucks, sure, but damn...

Exactly that, given what we know about Azurite this may have been a reason.

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Why lore-wise it is a huge deal? I didnt played NE starting zone so i may be loosing some info.

- - - Updated - - -

Also regarding the topic [ that is the real reason i started it here ] prob that is the reason that the Horde lost Undercity? Alliance and Horde clashing face to face Horde looses? Maybe they will need to wins some battles like Rob Stark from GoT, lesser numbers, more tactics and strategy? Because numbers arent all.

Id suggest looking up information about Teldrassil and its lore. Its almost the same as if Hyjal burned down

[Balinus]

Exactly that, given what we know about Azurite this may have been a reason.

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Id suggest looking up information about Teldrassil and its lore. Its almost the same as if Hyjal burned down

Just did, what made the one in Hyjal really special was the well of eternity. It is important, yes, but we dont know if they had time to evacuate, and if they did, loosing it isnt as bad as loosing UC. In my opnion.

[Ulthane]

Just did, what made the one in Hyjal really special was the well of eternity. It is important, yes, but we dont know if they had time to evacuate, and if they did, loosing it isnt as bad as loosing UC. In my opnion.

Military position: Undercity was amazing and losing that hurts a ton for their Eastern Kingdom presence.

Power Position: Horde now have the entirety of Druidic Power locations in their grasp.

Bonus tidbit: Opposite of the Life Domain is Death Domain. Would not be surprised if something in the Shadowlands has been stirring and compelling Slyvannas.

[Ailil]

How any of the factions have any soldiers left?
Both of them should have shit for a army after cata, maybe before

In other words, there's no place for consistency and logistics in warcraft lore so dont bother with it

[Gahk]

Nobody in the horde really likes or trusts the forsaken. Losing Undercity probably means no safe space for them now.

[Pawstruck]

As others have said, big lore opportunity here with druidism, death/shadow, etc. If Blizz capitalizes on it, it'll be awesome. If it's just another Cataclysm-ish "we're tired of these old ugly places let's torch 'em" thing, well...

[Melius]

easy answer: blizzard loves the horde. i didnt see one guy on panels that like the alliance. dont expect anything. we wont get shit.

[Heavens Night]

Honestly, lets have a recap, and if u have any on the Alliance side, please post:
1- Vanilla nothing really big happens
2- TBC as well, we got reinforced by each 1 faction that is relatively weak [ in terms of numbers and contrinutions ].
3- WotLK the Horde side, specifically the Forsaken have a civil war, with BOTH Alliance and Horde sieging it. I think the Horde lost big time here. Since we dont know what is cannon in the Gunship battle, and even if Alliance lost it, it isnt a big deal.
4- Cata there were lots of skirmishes, but i dont remember anything really specific that i would say were huge losses.
5- MoP.....hummmm here it gets interesting. Okay we lost Theramore and lots of big peeps there, but only served that the Horde lost Dalaran support. Then Horde gets a civil was AGAIN! Both factions siege Orgrimmar, cant say that isnt a big loss.
6- WoD i dont remember anything specifically.
7- Legion, we all lost, but idont think one lost more than the other.
And now with BoA, Alliance loose another small city, while the Horde looses a big one.
So with that in mind, am I wrong to say taht the Horde should be a lot weaker than Alliance?
ps: A forgot to mention that Garrosh even got his ass kicked in the novels, but aside from that i dont rmemeber much from it.

Darnassus is not "another small city" its a fucking huge tragedy. Darnassus is the NE Capital city, it houses 15000 inhabitants and to lose it and all of Teldrassil is a fucking tragedy, for really any Alliance, and especially if you're NE.

[Broken Fox]

Nobody in the horde really likes or trusts the forsaken. Losing Undercity probably means no safe space for them now.

Teldrassil is the new Undercity

[Plehnard]

And now with BoA, Alliance loose another small city, while the Horde looses a big one.

Alliance loses it's second biggest city and the Horde a smaller one that lies under the ruins of a formerly big one would be more accurate.
Night elves are the second biggest faction in lore (and player base) on the alliance side, so the loss of Teldrassil is nothing but a full blown catastrophe.
That trade off hugely favours the horde.