Vanilla demand nonsense

[Deleted]

I just hope MMO admin will open a new site or forum for WoW:Classic, i can't stand reading whining thread for both current and vanilla WoW for next years.

[Perkunas]

Well there’s the thing, neither of us know what classic wow will be, but your a fool if you think blizz will release vanilla wow worst and all.

I expect them to do as they have said. They are going to fix bugs and exploits, optimize the game(technically), and attempt to create the most authentic Pre-BC experience they can.

[Hellrime]

Here's a question... how do people feel about carryover? The idea that you can get things in the current game by playing vanilla? You find an old Elemental Attuned Blade in vanilla, and get the skin in the current game, for example.

That it is a way to completely shut down the classic servers even faster than burnout over playing the same exact game over and over and over forever will be. People want to be able to do that kind of shit to have bragging rights on live, but it will backfire because everyone can get the items and they won't be rare or be an achievement in itself to have them. How many people on live have the Ashbringer? How many will have it if they allow this proposal? What makes the items special is because people can't have them anymore.

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How does making un-viable classes viable ruin your experience?
How does improving the inventory system so that mounts dont take up inventory space ruin your experience?
How does fixing stability issues in the engine ruin your experience?

Because it is the game THEY love, versus the game YOU love. Inventory management was part of the experience, stability issues were the source of epic breakdowns over Ventrillo, the inefficiency in the class design made you have to make choices for raid comp. These were all part of the game that drew people in. If the devs bend on that, why not make dungeons easier? Raids easier? Why not allow flying? It goes on and on, everyone knows if you give a group of people an inch they will demand a mile.

[Ielenia]

I said non-profit! Some that make profit will obviously continue to operate. I hope not for long though!

Actually... you did not. You wrote "all private servers". At no point profit or non-profit was even mentioned.

[Perkunas]

So more an impression of the original rather than the original. A bit like the original Coca Cola and Coca Cola Classic.

Coke started losing ground to Pepsi in the 80's. Coke decided to change it's recipe to taste more like Pepsi and created New Coke. Coke fans rejected New Coke and the sales slumped even more. Coke went back to their recipe they had before and rebranded in Coca Cola Classic and New Coke became Coke 2 and Coke sales jumped. They didn't change the formula when they went to classic. They literally just went back to it and changed the name. Do you even remember the 80's?

[RayenDark]

The server will be designed with whatever makes blizzard the most money at the end of the day. They have to appeal to those who play retail and those who want classic. It's not going to be "pure" vanllia because they have to much time and money invested into other systems that support retail wow. Those will be incorporated this new game (mostly looking a B-net tag things, communities and voice chat changes).

This classic server will be a middle ground between the two because that is what is going to make them the most money. Blizzard is a business-this is a business decision-they think they can make money off of it-hence getting classic.

Blizzard can shut down private serves now if they choose to-they -own- the game. The version a private server does not matter.

[Perkunas]

Yes I remember the 80s well and original coke isn’t from the 80s. Today there may well be legal implications if coke were to use their original recipe so we have classic instead.

Yes, they took Coca out of it well before that. That's not the Classic Coke New Coke issue. Christ dude, you have no idea what that ordeal was. Here, learn something and stop using situation that doesn't mean what you think it means. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke

[Eveningforest]

The server will be designed with whatever makes blizzard the most money at the end of the day. They have to appeal to those who play retail and those who want classic. It's not going to be "pure" vanllia because they have to much time and money invested into other systems that support retail wow. Those will be incorporated this new game (mostly looking a B-net tag things, communities and voice chat changes).

This classic server will be a middle ground between the two because that is what is going to make them the most money. Blizzard is a business-this is a business decision-they think they can make money off of it-hence getting classic.

Blizzard can shut down private serves now if they choose to-they -own- the game. The version a private server does not matter.

This isn't possible and I am pretty sure Blizzard realizes that.

[Perkunas]

This isn't possible and I am pretty sure Blizzard realizes that.

Yup, and they also realize the people behind this push from the start who developed the best and most popular forbidden realm that caused all this ruckus were for a more authentic version.

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The analogy works well enough. If you believe for a second that classic wow=vanilla wow you are a fool.

You just proved that you don't know history and instead of saying. "Oh, I was wrong about that, but I still think I'm right because X" You gave me an "I don't care you're a pooh-head!"

I don't think it's going to be a perfect copy. They admitted as such. But an authentic Pre-BC experience doesn't have modern QoL features.

So no, your analogy was wrong, you still don't understand it and I think that until you make a case for how modern QoL features doesn't violate authenticity that was promised in now multiple interviews I'm going to chalk this up to fantasy.

[DSRilk]

Let me rephrase that. The Hybrid classes were designed that way. Tigole and Furor were notorious for their hybrid hate in EQ.

Those two were originally quest designers as I recall. Tom Chilton was the original lead dev, and while all devs generally have input into design, Chilton was responsible for it in the end. If you look at what he's said about class and talent design (for which he was specifically responsible), you get quotes like this: "...general philosophical approach of getting the hybrids to where they're close to the DPS classes when it comes to DPS roles. Otherwise, those specs just turn into joke specs."

As to hybrids... I don't mind the hybrid tax - when they're splitting roles. One of the things I miss most about old WoW was that my druid could feel like an actual hybrid.

[HuxNeva]

People calling for changes to Vanilla ARE NOT the people who wanted Vanilla in the first place. How can anyone not understand this?

Don't oversimplify.

I played retail since wrath, and vanilla on more than one private. I was and am a fairly vocal proponent of legacy servers, even more in the (horrible) WoD period than in the (enjoyable) Legion era.

To me, the whole 'Vanilla/TBC/first half of Wrath' period is basically the same type of game (nit the same, but same type). I will happily play any form of 'classic' that is in the spirit of these expansions.

I don't need QoL changes, but I'm not too bothered if they decide to change some things as long as for me the spirit is preserved. This would most definitly mean no CRZ, no LFD, no 'transmog', long and arduous questing, attunement, weapon proficiency, deep talent trees, no 'pet battles, pepe's or selfy cams. No 'followers' or 'bodyguards', no Scenarios.

I understand the "slippery slope" arguments, and indeed would rather err on the safe side.
But ... I couldn't give a rays ass about the experience being 'a pristine copy'.

So speak for yourself, and let other people decide on why they fought for 'legacy'

[DSRilk]

That it is a way to completely shut down the classic servers even faster than burnout over playing the same exact game over and over and over forever will be. People want to be able to do that kind of shit to have bragging rights on live, but it will backfire because everyone can get the items and they won't be rare or be an achievement in itself to have them. How many people on live have the Ashbringer? How many will have it if they allow this proposal? What makes the items special is because people can't have them anymore.

I can see your first point (about burnout). Your comment about what makes an item special, however, I disagree with. Regardless, it may well not be worth while due to how it could drive behavior. I think it would be nice, if we could all be a bit sane about it playing what we actually enjoy - but really, what are the odds of that? Crazy people without self control are the reason I can't have nice things!

[Perkunas]

Those two were originally quest designers as I recall. Tom Chilton was the original lead dev, and while all devs generally have input into design, Chilton was responsible for it in the end. If you look at what he's said about class and talent design (for which he was specifically responsible), you get quotes like this: "...general philosophical approach of getting the hybrids to where they're close to the DPS classes when it comes to DPS roles. Otherwise, those specs just turn into joke specs."

As to hybrids... I don't mind the hybrid tax - when they're splitting roles. One of the things I miss most about old WoW was that my druid could feel like an actual hybrid.

Furor (leader FoH)

While Everquest decimated the classic model and gestalt of Paladins, WoW revives them with fervor. Mind you, that won't cure the majority of EQ Paladins of their "I NEED TO BE A GOD" mentality but those that don't go into World of Warcraft with that mentality to begin with will fare better over time than the 'ME ME ME' crowd and have a very good time in the process.

They literally sabotaged the hybrids in WoW and forced them into healing. They had the most experience with end game raiding and class interactions. These guys pushed it. Here's a full write up with a major discussion of what was going on. http://paladinsucks.blogspot.com/2006/05/e3-buzz.html

"Jeffrey Kaplan (alias Tigole) was a Lead Game Designer at Blizzard Entertainment, formerly responsible for world design of World of Warcraft (and subsequent expansions), including "quests, outdoor zones, dungeons, raids etc."[1]"

Furor's best friend and guildmate. Also very anti-hybrid. in charge of Dungeons and Raids. Guess who they work hand in hand with in a trinity game? Class designers! Being that they were the biggest MMO dicks in the room in more ways than one those guys pushed their agenda on hybrids. It's something most of us hybrids from Vanilla who also played EQ were screaming at the tops of our lungs. Trust me, it sucked and it was unfair, but that was their goal. They wanted us to heal and only heal. Just look at tier 3 when they finally figured out itemization.

[Tyze]

Its gonna be fun to faceroll through the raids and quiet down the old vanilla hardcore players

[PLS]

I'm a beta player and I don't want plain vanilla, fixing bugs is perfectly reasonable. Integration into battle-net, setting your role and group finder without any automated queuing functionality etc is also perfectly acceptable. What you have here are a million people spewing whatever Asmondgold says as gospel, like literally word for word its incredibly transparent. What entitles me to input, as little as the community may have? Well all the people that are "purists" that have quit the game and played on private servers, sure aren't contributing to this massive project. Like it or not the people funding this pet project are the ones that are still playing the game today. And two havn't outright violated the TOS of the very company they are asking favors from.

[Hell-Nicø]

HAHA, that shit is a disaster announced.

Even the people into that stupid "Vanilla Bandwagon" don't know what they want, they don't know what patch they want with what features.

All these people forget something : WoW is an MMO, a living and evolving MMO.

Vanilla wasn't a fixed thing, it was a period during which the game have seen A LOT of changes.

Can't wait for the "Vanilla" servers to drop and have everyone whining that it's not "their" vanilla, the vanilla they wanted, the "real" vanilla.

[DSRilk]

They literally sabotaged the hybrids in WoW and forced them into healing. They had the most experience with end game raiding and class interactions. These guys pushed it. Here's a full write up with a major discussion of what was going on. http://paladinsucks.blogspot.com/2006/05/e3-buzz.html

I'm not saying they didn't complain in EQ. I'm not saying they didn't mature and see things from a more adult and dev-oriented position once they started at WoW (though I think this point is somewhat arguable, but for now, we'll just use your premise). However, I'm not talking about what two devs not in charge of class abilities and talents wanted. I'm talking about the open direction and intention espoused by the person in charge of the team and in charge of abilities and talents. From that perspective, I believe that a strong case can be made that the result did not really match the desire of the team nor its lead. More importantly and on point, I can say that I think there's just cause for attempting to address the issue with this vanilla. Not saying they will. Not saying they should. Saying there's cause to discuss it as an option.

[RayenDark]

This isn't possible and I am pretty sure Blizzard realizes that.

No it is possible and most likely what is going to happen. There is a reason it was called "Classic" and not "Vanilla".

Classic is purely a business decisions by blizzard. Take off your naive rose tinted glasses caked with levels of nostalgia and open your eyes.

[Perkunas]

I'm not saying they didn't complain in EQ. I'm not saying they didn't mature and see things from a more adult and dev-oriented position once they started at WoW (though I think this point is somewhat arguable, but for now, we'll just use your premise). However, I'm not talking about what two devs not in charge of class abilities and talents wanted. I'm talking about the open direction and intention espoused by the person in charge of the team and in charge of abilities and talents. From that perspective, I believe that a strong case can be made that the result did not really match the desire of the team nor its lead. More importantly and on point, I can say that I think there's just cause for attempting to address the issue with this vanilla. Not saying they will. Not saying they should. Saying there's cause to discuss it as an option.

Read the edit. Tigole worked on Dungeons and Raids. They work hand in hand with the class designers. They pushed an agenda. They pushed their vision on hybrids and it reflected. Prior to their influence Paladins were solid DPS. After that they were quite essentially EQ Clerics.

[HuxNeva]

Like it or not the people funding this pet project are the ones that are still playing the game today. And two havn't outright violated the TOS of the very company they are asking favors from.

You could as well say: 'Like it or not, the people that have made this project possible are the people that voted with their wallet and quit paying for a game they found deviate from the game they loved. Those that stayed only prolonged and encouraged further violation of a formerly great MMO, and should not ask for favors from those that made sacrifices for it'

Both nonsense.

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Read the edit. Tigole worked on Dungeons and Raids. They work hand in hand with the class designers. They pushed an agenda. They pushed their vision on hybrids and it reflected. Prior to their influence Paladins were solid DPS. After that they were quite essentially EQ Clerics.

Hybrids being less powerful in any specific role as a 'tax' for them being more versatile was most certainly stated throughout dev interviews for a very very long time (up till MoP?)