I don't think people realize how easy the raids will actually be.

[Soosho]

Like people have said raiding is not the focal point for alot of people in Vanilla.

[Deleted]

This is a mindset that has been extremely toxic throughout current wow, and if nothing else, I hope the introduction of classic realms helps to combat that.

problem is that's not a wow only mentality of phenomenon, the gaming community in general has become far more entitled, spoilt, self righteous and toxic over the last decade so has the world in general really. its i think a generation/upbringing issue. one of my classic dooms day scenarios is that the disgusting excuse for spawn that is gen Z shits all over what was a game for and played by us gen Y

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Yes. Being the bomb was a simple mechanic compared to all the shit in today's encounters. My point wasn't that it was hard or even difficult. It's that people get lax and stop paying attention. Most of the mechanics in vanilla raiding had more to do with gear checks and simply surviving through a brutal debuff placed on you by the boss.

less skill more gear grinding basically.

it was in most part a binary thing. do you have the gear? yes = free loot / no = wipe without hope

[moremana]

If you really think it's going to be more difficult for the content to be cleared in classic, I really don't know what to tell you. We have just about every aspect min/maxed and years of original vanilla and private server runs let us know exactly how each fight besides Naxx will go. I will even wager that it will take less time to clear the first raiding tier of content in Classic then it took to down mythic KJ.

You obviously havent played vanilla.

[Deleted]

Is there any other incentive? I mean to be successful in PvP you needed PvE gear and outside of leveling to 60 there wasn’t really much to do other than raiding.

Well as someone who raided to do PvP, i enjoyed the "forced to work with others" as it made me socialize when i would normally be a lone wolf. That got me to meet a lot of wonderful people and have a lot of good memories from vanilla, and from there a lot of inter-server relationships. The point is neither raiding or pvp, the point is the game and its community. If you are playing vanilla for pure raiding, or pure pvp and have little interest in create your own content or socialize, then vanilla isn't really fit for you (i am using you liberally, it doesn't mean specifically you).

[chazus]

the game was new and people were new to this kind of stuff. It was a different game.

Ehh... Did you raid back in those days?

The game was not 'new' to raiders. Sure, maybe the first guys who stepped into MC... But by early 2005 people had that down to a science. Probably moreso than we ever would now (mainly because people have forgotten tactics)

Difficulty wasn't about 'newness', so much as how unforgiving it was, and how fragile a raid composition was.

[Digitalspork]

But you have weak auras and shit now to display different things, not only cooldowns but also to guide you in the fight.
Not only that, but players back then were trash compared to now. We, as the playerbase, have gotten TONS better at the game.
People didn't even understand how good +hit was on casters or melee. It wasn't until years later people understood +hit was the #1 prio until cap.
With the amount of knowledge/theorycrafting around these days, optimal rotations and optimal gear will be known from the get-go which will improve your raid DPS by a lot.
We had hunters take rogue daggers (non agi ones) because they didn't know better - There will be askmrrobot etc.

Weak Auras, meh... it's still going to be fine. Also, if they do it right, and addon like Weak Auras won't be supported by the older Classic API for Custom Addons.

[Zoldor]

The raid mechanics won't be a challenge as much as the gear/consumable requirements will be the major challenge. Bosses were based more on the type of gear your brought to the fight than anything else, otherwise they just crushed you in some fashion. Overall I expect raid DPS to be on the average a lot higher than it was in Vanilla (this doesn't mean your specific guild group, but the overall player base).

Tons of people were raiding in vanilla in awful gear, but because a major core of the group had the right gear they could finish the boss. Get everyone in the right gear because the info is out there and we've had 13 years to discuss classic wow, I see raiding being more about prep than follow through. Can't we go see how easily people were clearing raids on Nost? Isn't that a viable set of data to pull from?

The gameplay is different in classic, more CC, more little random things in encounters and a few more ways to do things. Overall I think a lot of folks will enjoy it, but I'm in the group of can't go back home again, keep moving forward, and I'm not going to attempt to recapture something from my past. I'll leave it were it is. Maybe I'll play if I get bored in retail or my guild dissolves and I've got no where to go, but I played then, and now I've got other games and retail to play.

[Exodeus]

You're right I have no idea how vanilla was.

Wow grand marshal how much did the account cost you?

[Deleted]

The raid mechanics won't be a challenge as much as the gear/consumable requirements will be the major challenge. Bosses were based more on the type of gear your brought to the fight than anything else, otherwise they just crushed you in some fashion. Overall I expect raid DPS to be on the average a lot higher than it was in Vanilla (this doesn't mean your specific guild group, but the overall player base).

Tons of people were raiding in vanilla in awful gear, but because a major core of the group had the right gear they could finish the boss. Get everyone in the right gear because the info is out there and we've had 13 years to discuss classic wow, I see raiding being more about prep than follow through. Can't we go see how easily people were clearing raids on Nost? Isn't that a viable set of data to pull from?

The gameplay is different in classic, more CC, more little random things in encounters and a few more ways to do things. Overall I think a lot of folks will enjoy it, but I'm in the group of can't go back home again, keep moving forward, and I'm not going to attempt to recapture something from my past. I'll leave it were it is. Maybe I'll play if I get bored in retail or my guild dissolves and I've got no where to go, but I played then, and now I've got other games and retail to play.

so if instead of 0.1% of players completing naxx, 5% will complete naxx? heaven forbid!

[Hottage]

Wow grand marshal how much did the account cost you?

16 hours a day, every day for 6 weeks. That was just from Commander to Grand Marshal though.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Unlike legion, Vanilla isn't all about raiding...

[Zuben]

I don't know, my 10th year anniversary raid of Molten Core took 5 hours, because we wiped a lot.

[Hawg]

Back in the day in 2004, US peeps cleaned MC pretty fast, even for newbeginners like they were at that time

On Elysium in January, Rag was down by a 35-40man full green lvling gear, in the second week after launch

Where are you getting that info from? From what I can find, MC was released on Nov 23rd 2004, Raggi wasnt killed until April 25th 2005.

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And assuming Blizzard isn't dumb, Classic will be bundled with a WoW sub, so it'd be 'free'.

I wouldnt be surprised if you had to pay a premium on your wow subscription (like an extra $5/month) for classic, plus have to purchase the "WoW Classic" game at $60.

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Rag was killed in less than a month in Nost. Try again.

What patch was nost running at? Makes a big difference. Killing Rag at 1.12 was much easier than before.

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I played since launch so I am aware how little there was to do. Hence my post. The last 4 levels to 60 I grinded bears and bats in EPL.

Yeah but once you got to 60 there were tons of things to keep you busy. I remember being bored grinding the last few levels in EPL, but don't remember being bored once I hit 60.

Many instances to run to get geared.

Attunements.

Leveling professions.

Grinding reps.

Battlegrounds.

leveling First Aid

leveling cooking.

Leveling fishing.

Leveling weapon skills.

Earning gold for your epic mountskill and mount.

Battle Grounds, lots and lots of them.

World PVP.

Helping guildees and friends with class specific challenges.

And of course raiding.

[mehow2g]

to the idiots saying they were clearing MC with 10-15 people are lying to themselves, yes the instance was very easy but there is no way 10-15 people are keeping their mana during the boss fights maybe in tier 2/3 gear but not in greens/blues.

We now live in a world of instant gratification, I wonder how the newer player-base will respond to Vanilla for the most part not very well I hope some will learn that instant gratification doesn't equal to longevity.

The main change that will shock people will be the pace of the game in terms of buttons to press, there's a lot less of them the combat is a bit more stale comparing to the expansions.

Maybe they'll add spells through drops/quests etc which is what they should of done from the start rather than raising the level cap.

[Vaelorian]

to the idiots saying they were clearing MC with 10-15 people are lying to themselves, yes the instance was very easy but there is no way 10-15 people are keeping their mana during the boss fights maybe in tier 2/3 gear but not in greens/blues.

We now live in a world of instant gratification, I wonder how the newer player-base will respond to Vanilla for the most part not very well I hope some will learn that instant gratification doesn't equal to longevity.

The main change that will shock people will be the pace of the game in terms of buttons to press, there's a lot less of them the combat is a bit more stale comparing to the expansions.

Maybe they'll add spells through drops/quests etc which is what they should of done from the start rather than raising the level cap.

Honestly.... I am not one to brag but seriously mate... this was very doable.
Years ago when we were struggling to fill the slots of the 40 man raid one night.... we decided to just go with the "most active" players (the better ones) - and suddenly and quickly we saw that we toppled trash and bosses much more efficient.
Yes obviously this meant that you needed to chuck manapots (which was still possible). We were not 15 people... we were with 20ish (could be 1 or 2 people less or more). We were doing so great... that this single night broke out guild. It was just that clear we were running with dead weight all the damn time.
What happened was that everyone suddenly mattered and tried really hard. You had to focus... instead of being half asses or even afk. The game suddenly became far more fun.

After that night... stuff started to stir and ultimately caused a breakup in the guild.

[mehow2g]

PvE gear in vanilla was a commodity, not many had access to it, you did not need to be decked in top tier pve in vanilla to be successful in pvp.

Sure it would obviously be a clear advantage but you are viewing it from the pov of someone who is playing recent expansions.

The race to end game in vanilla wasnt the point, u don't want to rush to lvl 60 on a vanilla server , you want to make friends and go on adventures.

You'll hit max lvl eventually and end game isn't going anywhere, since raids are set in stone and you already know how to clear them that isn't the drive that should be propelling you to play vanilla.

As for pvp, you can spam bgs just as well on live , you can even get the same titles from rbgs, thats why I feel you're viewing vanilla server as a "new" content but it's more like a new ( or old ) mentality, dont rush it, savour it.

Yup I had a mage for a long time covered in mostly blues and some epics, I combined PvE/PvP gear using multiple 2 piece sets that add +Magic damage I crafted my epic robe which was beast I ended up with a character with a similar plus damage number to a fully geared tier 2 mage the only difference was I had less HP/Mana but I was highly effective in PvP and PvE.

I never understood the whole you need to raid to have a chance at this game Vanilla was still my best experience in WoW and I raided far more in TBC.

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Honestly.... I am not one to brag but seriously mate... this was very doable.
Years ago when we were struggling to fill the slots of the 40 man raid one night.... we decided to just go with the "most active" players (the better ones) - and suddenly and quickly we saw that we toppled trash and bosses much more efficient.
Yes obviously this meant that you needed to chuck manapots (which was still possible). We were not 15 people... we were with 20ish (could be 1 or 2 people less or more). We were doing so great... that this single night broke out guild. It was just that clear we were running with dead weight all the damn time.
What happened was that everyone suddenly mattered and tried really hard. You had to focus... instead of being half asses or even afk. The game suddenly became far more fun.

After that night... stuff started to stir and ultimately caused a breakup in the guild.

What kind of gear were you guys rocking?

[Vaelorian]

What kind of gear were you guys rocking?

At the time we had killed Ragnaros a few times... maybe even started BWL for the first few bosses... So a combination of tier 1+blue+odd tier 2 piece. We did MC that night because with the numbers we had... we could never do BWL... that was just out of the question.

[solinari6]

stupid is releasing content thats obsolete on release. stupid is not having a 20 man raid size a year or two after release. there should be at least 1x 20 man there. even for consistency sake, anyway i've said what i'm going to say, if the game is starting at some bogus patch version and going through a set patch history, honestly fuck that noise. no one got time for that.

I don't think Blizz will release all patches at once, for the same reason they don't release an entire expansion at once. People would finish all the content in a month or 2, and then move on. Blizz is spending a lot of money (probably) on this, so it makes sense to try to keep people playing it as long as they can.

[GRAMMARAXIS]

I still remember people wiping like crazy during the Molten Core event. Those who raid now and go with the intent of raid will likely smash that. Though all those pugs just trying to get the mount caused wipe after wipe after wipe. Mainly just from not being cleansed or spreading out. Add to that the potential for less viable addons and people having to deal with classes that only have auto-attacks and nothing like crusader's strike available and the biggest challenge for some would be staying awake. Unless, of course, you're a Buffadin. Which was actually my favorite role besides warrior tank. People will have to be retaught what white damage phases are again, though.

[FreaknRhinos]

This isn't mean to be a "shit" post to Vanilla WoW. It has pros that vastly beat current WoW at (vice-versa as well).

I just wanted to quickly talk about this (before I go to bed too), because I know many are expecting awesome stuff from classic return. Dungeons, quests, slow leveling, the RPG aspect (basically the whole jazz) will be fun to return to. I do however, want to touch upon the raiding. I think the main reason why Vanilla raiding was so "fun and challenging" was because, for the most part, the game was new and people were new to this kind of stuff. It was a different game.

Preparing for raids, the farming, the 40 peoples, and so forth, were the hard part. The actual content, was never difficult. There was a post sometime ago by a fella here (He was from paragon world top guild, so he can vouch (hopefully)) that he actually thought that all of this content was doable with 20 players and the other 20 doing warm body stuff (standing there, being there for mechanics and so forth). And he said this for Sapphiron. Now imagine that when all 40 people are actually decently skilled, and have knowledge on the mechanics of vanilla wow raiding. Threat meters, debuff limits, rogues taking off poisons, all that jazz... It won't be too much.

The MC rehash that Blizzard did back in 2014 wasn't much of a success or a good incarnation and it's only because they dastardly overtuned the living crap out of it. I think Tanks were almost able to get 1 shotted at the time during the event (I died to a single hit from Ragnaros -_-).

Only wanted to add to this, but don't be surprised that once people get to 60, guilds start forming, raids get cleared quickly. As Noxious said, the real challenge will be the leveling and dungeons, while the raiding will be the part where easy stuff can happen.

Completely garbage logic.

From the amount of complaints I have seen about how Vanilla was hard just to get to 60. Raids will still be a logistical challenge, coupled with completing for retail will leave a lot of room for bodies and raiders.

I did the MC rework in the first day it was released, and it was true to how it was handled simply because the tuning was on par in MCs hayday. While the raid mechanics were simpler, so were the players mechanics.

You are trying to use todays standards on yesterday. While we understand more, we have will have less tools to use and the handicapp will keep a lot of scrubs out of the end game.

Just think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.