High Elves are Blood elves

[Kaldriss]

the distinction isnt only political though, its physical as well. the blood elves have been infused will fel energy due to kael'thas' involvement with the burning legion, high elves werent part of that.

[Linkedblade]

It was the racism of Garithos and his men, not the entire Alliance. This is ironic because Kael'thas was quick to judge all Alliance by Garithos's actions, which is the very thing he was complaining about being done to him.

In the lore the Elves were treated poorly and used as cannon fodder for the Human armies. After Kael'thas escaped and killed Garithos and his men, he felt rhat tgere was no going back.

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Do people really care about High Elves this much? Like beyond Vareesa and a couple small name NPCs, they were at most just units in Warcraft.

What is it about High Elves not Night Elves, Blood Elves, Nightborne, San'layn, Nightfallen, Wretched, Withered, etc. that makes them any special, why do they HAVE to be High Elves?

For me, it's wanting to see the Alliance of the Second War back together. Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes are already playable. Same for Ogres in the Horde.

Honestly, There was really no other reason for the Blood Elves to have joined the Horde.

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the distinction isnt only political though, its physical as well. the blood elves have been infused will fel energy due to kael'thas' involvement with the burning legion, high elves werent part of that.

He didnt get involved with the Legion until he left Azeroth. That timing nevwr made sense to me. He never went to Quel'thalas. He didn't go there until the Isle of Quel'danas in the final chapter of BC. And the entire race that inhabits Silvermoon and Eversong never had contact with him or the fel.

[Austilias]

By that logic every player desire is catered for if you move the goalposts sufficiently.

You're being deliberately obtuse as to why people have been requesting High Elves for years just you can act like a smug shithead about it.

Yep. I've stopped bothering with that guy for that very reason.

[therealbowser]

It would probably be more accurate to say that blood elves are high elves.

It's also totally irrelevant as to why people are asking for high elves. I think that Blizzard will never add them, but it's not because 'high elves are boring'.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

High elves were there before Blood Elves. Blood Elf is just a name adopted by the High Elves that went to Outland with Kael'thas. The name is supposed to honor their survival, and the ones who fell in Silvermoon city when Arthas roflstomped the place.

All blood elves were/are high elves, but none of the high elves were at any point blood elves. It's not a difficult concept.

[Andromedes]

He didnt get involved with the Legion until he left Azeroth. That timing nevwr made sense to me. He never went to Quel'thalas. He didn't go there until the Isle of Quel'danas in the final chapter of BC. And the entire race that inhabits Silvermoon and Eversong never had contact with him or the fel.

If we want to play with words, then he actually sided with the burning legion, because he sided with Illidan, who later got orders from Kil'Jaeden to destroy the Frozen throne. And they obeyed.

[Obelisk Kai]

Yep. I've stopped bothering with that guy for that very reason.

And by not engaging with those opposed, you are surprised when a result you didn't expect pops up. All High Elf fans seem to have is an echo chamber where they filter out the reasons against, leaving them in a state of permanent grievance that their oh so reasonable demand to play an exact copy of an existing race on the other side is denied.

[Austilias]

And by not engaging with those opposed, you are surprised when a result you didn't expect pops up. All High Elf fans seem to have is an echo chamber where they filter out the reasons against, leaving them in a state of permanent grievance that their oh so reasonable demand to play an exact copy of an existing race on the other side is denied.

You're not engaging, you're indulging in schadenfreude, which is putting it politely.

There have been plenty of arguments provided in this thread, and others, as to why the arguments against the addition of High Elves tend to fall flat (Eg. That they are somehow not 'distinct' enough, when Highmountain Tauren are just Tauren with moose antlers instead of bull horns). When cornered, you retreat to an appeal to authority - i.e. "Blizzard/Ion Hazzikostas/etc said it's not happening, deal with it bro, end of, hahaha."

No point, frankly.

[Obelisk Kai]

It kinda feels is gonna go down that way, I still hoping it doesn't and at least there is some sort of shared common ground between High and Void elves cause it's really hard to fathom that blizz would spend time building a High/Void elf conflict beyond the High Elves just fucking off, which admittedly would be very anticlimactic.

Cause the issue, regardless of lore behind the void elves, remains with High Elves just hanging around, I was really rooting for a resolution here -as someone that has always wanted playable high elves tbh-

So who knows! Maybe Vereesa and the SC will get obliterated in Teldrassil, maybe the SC will fuck off with the Void Elves being allowed into the alliance and we'll never hear of them again, or we'll have to kill them because they go apeshit on the Void Elves.

In terms of what I hope happens and what at least happens to be done with: I hope the SC "merges" with the Void Elves thus ending the high elves as a recignizable faction, with the few left out this dissipating within the alliance in time. Or what at least happens, is that the SC gets obliterated. Cause at this point, they have basically stated there won't be layable high elves ever, so why keep then around in the SC doing stuff?

I also hope there is a conclusion to the Silver Covenant now the Void Elves have been introduced. If only to shut down this never ending, insatiable demand.

[Linkedblade]

If we want to play with words, then he actually sided with the burning legion, because he sided with Illidan, who later got orders from Kil'Jaeden to destroy the Frozen throne. And they obeyed.

What? I'm not playing with words. None of the High/Blood Elves came into contact with the fel at any time. And they definitely didn't have contact with it due to Kael'thas. Especially as he was never in Quel'thalas, and he didn't contact the fel until going to Outland.

[Obelisk Kai]

You're not engaging, you're indulging in schadenfreude, which is putting it politely.

There have been plenty of arguments provided in this thread, and others, as to why the arguments against the addition of High Elves tend to fall flat (Eg. That they are somehow not 'distinct' enough, when Highmountain Tauren are just Tauren with moose antlers instead of bull horns). When cornered, you retreat to an appeal to authority - i.e. "Blizzard/Ion Hazzikostas/etc said it's not happening, deal with it bro, end of, hahaha."

No point, frankly.

I'm allowed to indulge in schadenfreude, this has been a particular bugbear for years and it looks like it has finally come to an end. All that's left is the delusion that persistence will change the end result.

I have never been cornered rhetorically by a group who have never presented strong arguments for their case beyond 'we want them' and 'tolkien said it had to be this way'.

Besides, I would rather rely on what the devs say than twist myself into an absolutely ridiculous looking contortion in trying to deny what they say. In fact, how is 'When cornered, you retreat to an appeal to authority - i.e. "Blizzard/Ion Hazzikostas/etc said it's not happening, deal with it bro, end of, hahaha' even a negative?

It's a de facto acknowledgement that my side of the argument has mostly prevailed. Why wouldn't I use that?

[Austilias]

I'm allowed to indulge in schadenfreude, this has been a particular bugbear for years and it looks like it has finally come to an end.

Good, at least you're honest.

I'm also allowed to ignore you, given that you are subsequently not arguing in good faith, but just to spite your "bugbears" (i.e. Schadenfreude).

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In fact, how is 'When cornered, you retreat to an appeal to authority - i.e. "Blizzard/Ion Hazzikostas/etc said it's not happening, deal with it bro, end of, hahaha' even a negative?

It's a de facto acknowledgement that my side of the argument has mostly prevailed. Why wouldn't I use that?

Because sometimes the "authority" can be wrong.

That's why it's a fallacy to appeal to it.

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I have never been cornered rhetorically by a group who have never presented strong arguments for their case beyond 'we want them' and 'tolkien said it had to be this way'.

This is also an entertaining admission. You've never been cornered by anyone who said 'Tolkien said it had to be this way', yet 'Blizzard said it had to be this way' suffices?

That tells me all I need to know

[Andromedes]

I have never been cornered rhetorically by a group who have never presented strong arguments for their case beyond 'we want them' and 'tolkien said it had to be this way'.

Lol you are being arrogant again. We provided strong arguments but you shunned every single one, because Ion said and Ion is god. There is even thread how make high elves more unique, adding them face paints, giving them power from Lei'shen and it is not big of a stretch if you compare it to void elves. If they can pull void elves off their ass, why not pull storm elves with face paint out of their ass?
These void elves will be only relevant in void theme expansion, otherwise they will be on trash yard together with demon hunters, death knights, monks..

Also every argument against high elves can be applied to void elves
Low population numbers - alleria cant just train hundreds and thousands of void elves, she mastered that in centuries
No racial hub - High elves could actually use Dalaran and it doesnt even matter, because allied races dont need and wont probably have any hub, if they start at lvl 20 in SW/OG
High elves would mess with population numbers - If cooler, more unique dracula elf wont shift population numbers, why would bland high elf? I doubt many blood elf players will suddenly change their faction, where their friends are, just to play blue eyed elf. +Horde will get cool, more popular Zandalari and Nightborne.. So i think faction imbalance is out of question.
High elves bring nothing new - Well they sustain elven conflict between them and Blood elves, void elves will be unneeded addition. Void elves bring something new to void themed expansion, otherwise they will be useless, because all their identity is based on the void.

[Deleted]

It was the racism of Garithos and his men, not the entire Alliance. This is ironic because Kael'thas was quick to judge all Alliance by Garithos's actions, which is the very thing he was complaining about being done to him.

He wasn't. Quel'thalas were in conversations with both Alliance and Horde, but the Alliance spying was what pushed the Blood Elves to the Horde.

[Obelisk Kai]

Good, at least you're honest.

I'm also allowed to ignore you, given that you are subsequently not arguing in good faith, but just to spite your "bugbears" (i.e. Schadenfreude).

What is there left to argue over? My side of the argument has prevailed. I guess I can see how you might feel this is just rubbing in at this point but I like to think of it as helping you through a difficult realisation.

Because sometimes the "authority" can be wrong.

That's why it's a fallacy to appeal to it.

You can't be wrong with a creative endeavour, you can only take it in directions people may disagree with.

Sometimes directions people obsess over for years and complain about when they really should give up the ghost and roll a Void Elf.

This is also an entertaining admission. You've never been cornered by anyone who said 'Tolkien said it had to be this way', yet 'Blizzard said it had to be this way' suffices?

That tells me all I need to know

Dumb comparison. Part of the reason some want High Elves is that the trope breaking of the elves being on the side of the Orcs and not the Humans seemingly violates an unwritten rule of fantasy. That's the 'appeal to Tolkien'.

The difference between the appeal to Tolkien and 'Blizzard's way' is...and i know you have great difficulty with this part...blizzard is actually in charge of their own universe and has told us their opinion on the matter.

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Lol you are being arrogant again. We provided strong arguments but you shunned every single one, because Ion said and Ion is god. There is even thread how make high elves more unique, adding them face paints, giving them power from Lei'shen and it is not big of a stretch if you compare it to void elves. If they can pull void elves off their ass, why not pull storm elves with face paint out of their ass?
These void elves will be only relevant in void theme expansion, otherwise they will be on trash yard together with demon hunters, death knights, monks..

Your arguments are now weaker than they have ever been, because Blizzard DID listen to you. They gave you the model and made it look different. The number of times High Elf fans advanced that argument, that you could get the Thalassian Elf model and they could make it look different and the number of times I said it was a dumb move that Blizzard would never do...

Well, I'm going to make a big gesture here. I am going to admit I was wrong.

I was wrong when I said Blizzard would never give you a thalassian elf model that looked different. I was wrong when I said that would never happen. They did exactly what you said they would do.

Congratulations on proving me wrong and getting your different Thalassian Elves.

Also every argument against high elves can be applied to void elves
Low population numbers - alleria cant just train hundreds and thousands of void elves, she mastered that in centuries
No racial hub - High elves could actually use Dalaran and it doesnt even matter, because allied races dont need and wont probably have any hub, if they start at lvl 20 in SW/OG
High elves would mess with population numbers - If cooler, more unique dracula elf wont shift population numbers, why would bland high elf? I doubt many blood elf players will suddenly change their faction, where their friends are, just to play blue eyed elf. +Horde will get cool, more popular Zandalari and Nightborne.. So i think faction imbalance is out of question.
High elves bring nothing new - Well they sustain elven conflict between them and Blood elves, void elves will be unneeded addition. Void elves bring something new to void themed expansion, otherwise they will be useless, because all their identity is based on the void.

All that is is irrelevant now. Population numbers, model uniqueness, doesn't matter. It should be jettisoned.

My argument as to why you won't get High Elves is now this.

You won't get High Elves because you have Void Elves, and Void Elves were clearly crafted to be the twist on thalassian elves for you.

I'm still mystified as to why this argument is on going. Your side won. I said for years you wouldn't even get the model and shouldn't get it but you did.

You should be celebrating.

[Andromedes]

It is funny, how high elf fans have been mocked for wanting more playable elves, but in fact, void elf supporters want even more elves, because they are fine with adding more and more fabricated elves.
Apparently queldorei, sindorei, shaldorei and kaldorei arent enough and we need cool new elves with fresh story.

[The Iron Fist]

Oh grow up.

He's the game director, and you (and others) trying to discount his words is more a sign of your own desperation on this matter than anything else. It's essentially word of god for Warcraft.

If they were ever going to give you High Elves, it would have been right now with the announcement of the allied races. They gave you Void Elves, a 95% match.

Take it and be thankful you got that.

You know the key difference between me and you? I don't care. No really. I don't care. If Alliance doesn't get High Elves, so what. If they do, so what. Matter of fact, I'd rather not deal with Blood Elf players rerolling Alliance as they attract a certain crowd I don't wish to engage with.

You on the other hand are vehemently opposed to High Elfs. It gets your knickers in a bunch. You're biased. Own it. You aren't arguing from a point of objectivity like myself. I'm arguing from a point of logic and likelihood. Look no further than the EU and NA official forums to see the rage over High Elves. They are the most requested race in the game. Period. Full. Stop. Not debatable. More than Ogres. More than Naga. More than Ethereals. All races I personally would rather see than High Elves.

I heard Ion's words very clearly. Yes, it sounds like they probably aren't going to happen from what he said. However, unlike what Friendlyimmolation claims (and is wrong on) nowhere does he says that High Elves aren't happening. He says "Spoilers guys. Blood Elves are pretty much High Elves. Void Elves are also pretty much another flavor of High Elves". So in that same window where he says Void Elves are in the same space of High Elves, one of which is going to be playable meaning the other could be. When asked by Jessie Cox if there were any major High Elf outposts anywhere, he squints and says "I don't think so." Remember, he is Gurgthock from Elitist Jerks. Ion is a Horde-only player as is Jessie Cox. They likely don't even remember Silver Covenant stuff because they don't play Alliance. Tell me where you see that he says "NO. HIGH ELVES ARE NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN!" He doesn't. Even if he did (which he doesn't) consider J. Allen Brack who shot down just last BlizzCon that Legacy servers were never going to happen by saying "You think you want them, but you don't." What happened this BlizzCon? Legacy servers are announced.

Oh, to put the cherry on the top of my argument, Muffinus said they are taking player feedback about what 'Allied Races' they want to see most. Guess which race that is... The outcry on the official forums over getting Void Elves instead of High Elves is the worst I've seen it since no-flying was announced for WoD. It's even worse than the Legion legendaries rage.

It's all about $$ guys and gals. Blizzard is a corporation. High Elves will generate more money than any other Allied Race possibly could. Therefor, it is not a matter of if, but of when. In the end, its capitalism baby. The consumer gets what the consumer wants...

[Deleted]

It is funny, how high elf fans have been mocked for wanting more playable elves, but in fact, void elf supporters want even more elves, because they are fine with adding more and more fabricated elves.
Apparently queldorei, sindorei, shaldorei and kaldorei arent enough and we need cool new elves with fresh story.

Wow Looks amazing. Can't wait to try Vegan Elf

[The Iron Fist]

It is funny, how high elf fans have been mocked for wanting more playable elves, but in fact, void elf supporters want even more elves, because they are fine with adding more and more fabricated elves.
Apparently queldorei, sindorei, shaldorei and kaldorei arent enough and we need cool new elves with fresh story.

You know, the funny thing is that the Elder Scrolls universe has far more Elves than the Warcraft one does. Yet, I never hear anyone in TESO or Skyrim forums QQing about it.

Aldmer (First Elves)
Altmer (High Elves)
Ayleid (Wild Elves)
Bosmer(Wood Elves)
Chimer (Changed Ones)
Dunmer (Dark Elves)
Dwemer (Dwarves)
Maormer (Sea Elves)
Orsimer (Orcs)
Falmer (Snow Elves)
Breton (Half Elves)

[toxicrusader]

Yes, they are.

And Void elves are just misunderstood emo teenagers who just want to be left alone.