Ex-World of Warcraft dev Mark Kern explains why Blizzard open vanilla servers

[Perkunas]

I'll allow 100K, but not a soul more.

Clearing raids definitely should be a time investment. But it shouldn't be made exclusive to the top 500 guilds. Everyone should have a chance at it.

As for Earth and Beyond, no idea what that is, but a little googling later I see it has no sequel or continuation, right?
Classic WoW has a, (in my mind) far superior version running at the same time. No doubt Classic wil havea sizeable playerbase, but it will not keep anyone other than the most dedicated fanbase.

Earth and Beyond was EQ in space. Punishing deaths, super long leveling process, gigantic open-world raids, and super niche classes. I fucking loved it, but it was by no stretch a good game.

I think it comes down to what you like. You like modern WoW and I prefer legacy. I currently have an active sub to WoW, but I've been on and off since the end of Wrath with stretches of over a year without subbing. We don't like the same thing and that's ok.

[Deleted]

I really don't get why people are against Classic. Doesn't effect the main game and will just give blizzard more income in the future. Just let the veterans, the curious and the nostalgic have their game. I likely won't play it but no skin off my back. We have modern wow with all its qol

BUT ITS JUST NOSTALGIA AND ROSY GLASSES and it will die in 4,2 days because ppl dont remember vanilla. See it had thing x and y and z.

[Surfd]

Clearing raids definitely should be a time investment. But it shouldn't be made exclusive to the top 500 guilds. Everyone should have a chance at it.

I disagree. You know what happens when you follow that mindset? You end up with the travesty that is LFR, or the Wrath version of Nax. LFR is so goddamned easy that people can clear the entire raid and never actually learn anything mechanically. If you want to raid, there should be a baseline level of skill and competency that needs to be met. LFR set that bar WAYYYY too low. Wrath Naxx is another example. There was a very good reason why only 1% of people playing vanilla ever experienced it: Because it was fucking hard. and when they updated it for Wrath, both the change in raid size and the absolute butchering of the mechanics made it a pale joke of it's former self. I mean, take thaddeus. 40 man thaddeus was a fucking nightmare, where a single person messing up the charges could easily end your raid in a heartbeat. 10 man thaddeus in the same room? A goddamned joke, where you could literally position your entire raid so that the entire fight could be done without ever needing to move.

I guarantee you, even if the classic server is everything everyone could ever hope for, it will still only be the 1% clearing Naxx 40, because that shit as current content was mean as hell.

[Arainie]

There is no community in the game if YOU don't do anything about it. People have changed the last 10 years. If you want to have a community in the game, then join a guild, say hi when you enter a lfg and so on, its all up to you.

Vanilla won't change the community one bit.

You can say hi to the 25 players in LFR and get a single hello back. You can say hi to your LFD group and not even get an echo back. The community may start with you, but if there's no incentive to keep it going (which there hasn't been since maybe WotLK or at least Cata) one man can only do so much.

[Perkunas]

I guarantee you, even if the classic server is everything everyone could ever hope for, it will still only be the 1% clearing Naxx 40, because that shit as current content was mean as hell.

I'd say it would be similar just because of the massive time and effort required to get that far.

[Molvonos]

Time is a flat circle.

Those of us that actually played and remember WoW as it was, remembers that all the QoL changes were made as a result of players asking for them.

Since then, the vocal minority has shifted further and further over until you have people who don't want the aforementioned QoL changes. Unfortunately, they will have to make changes to the base game and people still won't be happy.

There will always be people who will complain about one thing or another, because they will never get that feeling back.

I've personally never had issues finding the 'so-called' community that doesn't supposedly exist anymore. Then again, most of that community was in the guilds rather than random folks found out in the world.

[Deleted]

So I've been giving this a lot of thought recently and i've come to the conclusion of what i think they should do with the vanilla servers which i believe will have popular user support. I really don't understand some people on this thread though, I understand wanting to keep the original game as original as possible but simply saying "vanilla, thats it" is a stupid statement. They should 100% add in a few non game changing quality of life improvements such as mass looting. I've never heard anybody say anything along the lines of "yeah you know what i really miss about vanilla? single looting 20 mobs when i'm AOE grinding". You hear people say they miss the PVP, or the PVE, or the lack of class balance or the sense of community.

Here are the list of changes i believe they should make:

1) Add in mass looting corpses - this is just a straight up quality of life feature. Mobs are a lot harder in classic anyway, only a small % of people will AOE farm.

2) Improved Graphics (Inc character models) - These are a client side change. If you want to use the old models and old graphics you can, simply turn your settings down. Why should it bother you what other players see if they want higher res character models? Thats like QQing about people using addons.

3) Keep Dungeon Finder Away from Classic - This is a feature that prevents that sense of community. This is something most people miss about wow classic - although its inconvenient to look in /2 for a tank and dps for your dungeon it does help create community and immersion. This is fundamental that LFD keeps out of classic.

4) Use patch 1.12 as the source code - This was the time classic was in its most stable state with bug fixes etc. It's a very polished and playable state of the game compared to the launch.

5) Make no changes to dungeon/raid difficulty or class balance - Part of the fun about classic was the inbalances. Yes, some specs were not really viable but some specs are cool and quirky, and some are down right badass with the correct gear (see enhance shaman with sulfuras). This is a key element of fun in classic, and it's why people love it. No it's not fun being 1shot, but it is fun trying to gear your char up to 1 shot others as the end goal.

6) Keep Cash Shops / Mount Collection Tabs out of classic - Cash shops no explanation needed - keep them away. The collections tab could be argued as a Quality of Life change but one of the key things about Vanilla is managing bag space. It was important to manage your bag space and this was a key element of the game. See hunters with arrows etc - yes it's annoying, but it's part of the class fantasy. If you want the option of using 20 different mounts you had better be prepared to use 20 bag slots for them.

I genuinely think this is what they should do, and honestly i would be surprised if many people tend to disagree with these changes. There has to be a middle ground - yes the core principles of the game must stay untouched (class balance, community, economy, leveling rates) but quality of life changes should also be included (within reason).

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

There is no community in the game if YOU don't do anything about it. People have changed the last 10 years. If you want to have a community in the game, then join a guild, say hi when you enter a lfg and so on, its all up to you.

Vanilla won't change the community one bit.

Oh please. I've been on 3 different mythic guilds this expansion. Outside of raiding, nobody utters a word. Don't even mention LFG/LFR, u don't even have to communicate for m+20s.

- - - Updated - - -

Spot the guy who does not play retail.

How is he wrong? Plenty of players that have never stepped in a mythic raid have 940+ ilvl.

[Slashnox]

someone who stopped working for blizz years ago and had been salty ever since helped make classic happen, get a grip of reality

I mean his voice was heard and both you and I know of him right now. He's even been interviewed about it multiple times.

That actually is worth something. Nobody knows who you are or about any opinion you've had in your entire life, so it's nice to have someone who actually has some weight behind their name speak.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Time is a flat circle.

Those of us that actually played and remember WoW as it was, remembers that all the QoL changes were made as a result of players asking for them.

Since then, the vocal minority has shifted further and further over until you have people who don't want the aforementioned QoL changes. Unfortunately, they will have to make changes to the base game and people still won't be happy.

There will always be people who will complain about one thing or another, because they will never get that feeling back.

I've personally never had issues finding the 'so-called' community that doesn't supposedly exist anymore. Then again, most of that community was in the guilds rather than random folks found out in the world.

So when people ask for things you don't agree with, it's a vocal minority asking for changes. When they agree with your views, it's the playerbase asking for needed changes? Very hypocritical to say the least.

only about 2 more years of this left....blizz just needs to release classic now and save us the whine

this "dev" is a terrible person and is merely commenting for the attention

"i stopped playing wow 7 years ago but im gonna comment on current wow" fuck right off

will i play classic in downtime?? yeah probably but i know its a grindy fucking chore dont try to paint it as this super awesome gift from the gods thats gonna bring people back

Would he be a terrible person if he was praising the current state of wow? Hypocrisy is very abundant here, it seems.

[Rurin]

How exactly does cross realm make the game into a singleplayer game?

[Arainie]

Ah yes, the utopia of 2004, in which nothing bad happened on wow. No ninjas, griefers etc.

I said nothing of the kind. There were ninjas and griefers back then as well, and the only reason we don't see them as an issue nowdays is that all loot in PuGs is personal and that you can just serverhop if someone's destroying your fun. I'd argue that people are way more toxic on the internet in general nowdays than 10 years ago.

[Serenais]

I'd argue that people are way more toxic on the internet in general nowdays than 10 years ago.

That is not exactly a great prospect for Classic.

[JohnRoads]

Nice post and all, but they have already said they would do it so there is not really any point in bringing up a 1½ year old interview.

[Molvonos]

Snip

Problem with your response is that you assumed I didn't want it. I could care less about whether or not Classic servers go live or not. I played it back in the day, was happy with my memories and have no inclination to return to those days because I don't have the time to invest in them again.

If someone else does, cool, not my concern or issue.

But back then, I did agree with the QoL changes they made. I advocated them (whatever that was worth) meaning I wasn't against them, thus not a hypocrite.

But there is a reason the saying is 'the squeaky wheel gets the grease'.

[Serenais]

Which matters why?

Considering that PuGs nowadays ask 930+ for anything relevant, I'd say it's a bonus, not a problem. Not to mention that if a raid guild loses a raid member for any reason, not having to gear them through the last two tiers is also probably a welcome feature.

[epLe]

The internet was a very different place before social medias, and millennia generation entered it.
The difference in mindset of the youth today compared to 20 years ago is the primary catalyst.

Communities started to die when they butchered the 40man guilds, when half the roster is needed, maximum half the people are online.
This trend continued with the terrible idea of 10&20 man raiding aswell.

Then remove all outside raid grinds, LFR, X-realms, makes it so easy to raid at your own leisure that you dont need to commit to a guild.

But yes, Mark Kern hits it on the head with :

"- veteran MMO players want to feel that challenge again, without the automation and the hand-holding."

[Kyanion]

I disagree. You know what happens when you follow that mindset? You end up with the travesty that is LFR, or the Wrath version of Nax. LFR is so goddamned easy that people can clear the entire raid and never actually learn anything mechanically. If you want to raid, there should be a baseline level of skill and competency that needs to be met. LFR set that bar WAYYYY too low. Wrath Naxx is another example. There was a very good reason why only 1% of people playing vanilla ever experienced it: Because it was fucking hard. and when they updated it for Wrath, both the change in raid size and the absolute butchering of the mechanics made it a pale joke of it's former self. I mean, take thaddeus. 40 man thaddeus was a fucking nightmare, where a single person messing up the charges could easily end your raid in a heartbeat. 10 man thaddeus in the same room? A goddamned joke, where you could literally position your entire raid so that the entire fight could be done without ever needing to move.

I guarantee you, even if the classic server is everything everyone could ever hope for, it will still only be the 1% clearing Naxx 40, because that shit as current content was mean as hell.

Ah here we go with "Vanilla raids were harder than all future raids" tripe.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah yes, the utopia of 2004, in which nothing bad happened on wow. No ninjas, griefers etc.

No spawn campers, people rushing to tag the mob first so you get screwed...

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Which matters why?

It doesn't, but that wasn't your initial argument.

[Kyanion]

Oh please. I've been on 3 different mythic guilds this expansion. Outside of raiding, nobody utters a word. Don't even mention LFG/LFR, u don't even have to communicate for m+20s.

Riiiight, go ahead, go pug a m+20 and let me know how it goes. Of course you wouldn't have to type anything in game as you'd likely be in voice chat at that point.