Paid health care is literally insane.

[dwarven]

My father cut his fingers off and ended up getting them reattached. He would have paid more in the US for that one injury (Probably would have lost the house too) than he will ever pay through taxes over the course of his life.

That's stupid. Of course he didn't pay for it. 100 other people did. The only reason you can have your universal healthcare (albeit with egregious tax rates) is because the US provides military defense for all of its allies, and our economy rewards innovation. So you don't have to invent things like Amazon, Google, or Microsoft. Because you wouldn't have them if it wasn't for the US.

[Mifuyne]

That's stupid. Of course he didn't pay for it. 100 other people did. The only reason you can have your universal healthcare (albeit with egregious tax rates) is because the US provides military defense for all of its allies, and our economy rewards innovation. So you don't have to invent things like Amazon or Google.

[dwarven]

And here you are on an American forum, dedicated to a substantially popular American made game. Just because it pisses you off, it doesn't mean it's untrue.

[Mifuyne]

And here you are on an American forum, dedicated to a substantially popular American made game. Just because it pisses you off, it doesn't mean it's untrue.

Now I just need a emoticon that cries from hilarity.
Because "Murica is the bestest" doesn't change anything about the kind of healthcare the US or any other country has.

[dwarven]

Now I just need a emoticon that cries from hilarity.

Or maybe an emoticon with an actual argument.

[Northy]

Why bastardize a great thing? America has been the world leader in healthcare innovation for at least 100 years.

Despite all the bashing America receives every time someone mentions medical care, it remains the most advanced country in medicine. The sheer number of research papers published every year is higher than the next 5 countries on our list combined. America’s medical scientists are also first in number of researchers that have foreign collaborators, illustrating their willingness for cooperation with their colleagues from around the globe, which is a contributing factor to their overall success.c.

[dwarven]

Well, if we go that route they're all mainly made by people who are in favor of universal healthcare.

They're in favor of it as long as it doesn't come out of their pockets, obviously. Everyone is a humanitarian until their own well-being is threatened.

[Mifuyne]

They're in favor of it as long as it doesn't come out of their pockets, obviously. Everyone is a humanitarian until their own well-being is threatened.

But it does come out of their own pockets in most first world countries.
So what is your point exactly?

[Ghostpanther]

Why bastardize a great thing? America has been the world leader in healthcare innovation for at least 100 years.

Despite all the bashing America receives every time someone mentions medical care, it remains the most advanced country in medicine. The sheer number of research papers published every year is higher than the next 5 countries on our list combined. America’s medical scientists are also first in number of researchers that have foreign collaborators, illustrating their willingness for cooperation with their colleagues from around the globe, which is a contributing factor to their overall success.c.

Which none of that disputes the truth the lack of affordable health care and the ever increasing cost of such, which is out pacing the cost of living each year, is a serous problem in the US.

[Masark]

Just because it pisses you off, it doesn't mean it's untrue.

No, the fact that it's not true means it's untrue.

[dwarven]

But it does come out of their own pockets in most first world countries.
So what is your point exactly?

Tax evasion, obviously. Silicon valley is infamous for it.

[Mifuyne]

Tax evasion, obviously. Silicon valley is infamous for it.

Your president is also infamous for it.
So what is your point?

That some people are greedy?

[skitzin]

Yes but you pay taxes regardless. In theory a country without universal health care should have considerably lower taxes than one with - but if you compare the US to places like Canada, Australia etc, it actually depends a lot on tax brackets, local vs federal tax brackets etc. You as an individual probably don't see much tax advantage for not having universal health care in the US.

So in practice, my universal health care doesn't "cost" me anything compared to the situation I'd be in in the US.

Well as an Australian myself I can tell you that everyone here pays tax in one form or another. Part of that tax is used to cover the cost of the healthcare system. It is not free but subsidised to mitigate the costs to an individual. The cost does not evapourate into thin fucking air. It is spread around our whole society.

You are truly ignorant of it if you think you are not still paying for it on some level. Sure the more you earned they more they take but that doesn't suddenly mean that those at the lowest brackets are not paying some tax towards it. Just because Barry only pays $50 in tax and Gary pays $20000 doesn't mean both Gary and Barry aren't paying taxes. So even if you pay nothing for healthcare personally, you are still paying something into to healthcare system somewhere - whether you realise it or not.

The real question is, since Americans pay so much tax why do they get such shit services?

For the American system, the biggest waste of money for them is a lack of centralisation with regards to how the money is handled between the public and private sectors. Last I checked, this alone, accounted for ~1/3rd of the money spent on healthcare in the USA.

[dwarven]

Your president is also infamous for it.
So what is your point?

That some people are greedy?

Everyone is greedy. Poor people try to cheat on their taxes all the time. They aren't more moral just because they have less money.

[Mifuyne]

Everyone is greedy. Poor people try to cheat on their taxes all the time. They aren't more moral just because they have less money.

Remind me again what this has to do with healthcare.
Considering it is working for most countries.

[dwarven]

Remind me again what this has to do with healthcare.
Considering it is working for most countries.

I already told you, but you weren't paying attention.

[Mifuyne]

I already told you, but you weren't paying attention.

But if everyone is so greedy as you say, why does it do work in many countries?

[RapBreon]

Hmmm, my wife is a RN at a local hospital and we have insurance through them, but we still pay $720.

Without her benefits we would be paying over $1400 for Her, me and my son. Im starting to get a tingle, and not in a good place!

Is this per month? If so, holy shit. I don't want to come off as nation bashing but...I'd pay less for a well financed Mortage per month....(at 1400).

Everybody pays for healthcare. the "free" healthcare in other countries is funded by the taxes that you pay. There is no "free" healthcare. Otherwise nobody would want to be a doctor.

Except for all the Doctor's involved in humanitarian efforts. Yeah it pays well, but it also attracts altruistic people come'on'bruh.

[dwarven]

But if everyone is so greedy as you say, why does it do work in many countries?

You're just rephrasing the same question, and you've already glazed over the answer apparently, but whatever.

If we implemented universal healthcare, several things would suffer: private innovation, military, scientific endeavors. The US already spends well above the NATO recommended amount of GDP spent on defense. In fact, it's twice that of many other NATO members. South Korea would have already been annexed by North Korea if there weren't American troops stationed there. If you live in a NATO country, America is obligated to protect you with all of its big scary guns.

[Mifuyne]

You're just rephrasing the same question, and you've already glazed over the answer apparently, but whatever.

If we implemented universal healthcare, several things would suffer: private innovation, military, scientific endeavors. The US already spends well above the NATO recommended amount of GDP spent on defense. In fact, it's twice that of many other NATO members. South Korea would have already been annexed by North Korea if there weren't American troops stationed there. If you live in a NATO country, America is obligated to protect you with all of its big scary guns.

Neither private innovation or scientific endeavors would be hurt, atleast not by a lot.
The military? That's a whole different beast topic.
I like how you poke a dead horse with the whole "twice as many as X or Y, because of us X or Y".

Think about all the wasted money on warfare, that's the real issue.
Too bad we all can't get along.