Hypothetical Scenario: Vanilla Class Balance.

[RapBreon]

I just want to preface this with me saying this is just a thought-experiment, I'm not necessarily for or against the idea I'm about to propose, but I am very interested on views and opinions of people who are both for and against Vanilla undergoing minor class balance changes. I would like you to read more than just the title - if possible.

The idea is a simple one. What if Enhance Shaman's Stormstrike;

1. Has a lot more charges (because rogues and dere dem poisons); or

2. Has a much shorter duration but infinite charges/no charge system; and

Can't stack, so multiples would overwrite each other (because 2nd post).


I know a lot of people are against changing anything because it won't be Vanilla, that's fine. I fully expect you 'then it won't be vanilla' peeps to have your fun, so go B A N A N A S (as expect, give your opinion without reading).

For those of you that have been arguing about wanting to see certain specs become more optimal (I'd argue they're already viable in most circumstances besides maybe Naxx40) in a raid setting, what do you think?

I think this kind of change keeps the core 'support' aspect of Shaman alive (as in their own damage is mostly unaffected, keeping their hybrid tax in check), whilst increasing the usefulness of the actual spec. This is opposed to the whole class, as Shaman's utility is linked to their class not their spec, hence why they're Resto majority of the time (need them healers). This provides a reason for at least one lucky Shaman to not have to be Resto for raids. It also avoids any real game-play changes for the Shaman, though it may have some flow-on effects on how other classes do their rotation.

Unfortunately I didn't have enough experience with other supports to propose parallel hypothetical. But I would be interested in hearing reasonable ones.

As for actually seeing it implemented? I'm not sure and I'm still leaning with no, but that's what I made this thread for!

[bladeXcrasher]

What, you mean like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ghu7cBG_cQA

I don't see class balancing happening, it really defeats the whole purpose of what people have been asking for.

[Echocho]

What, you mean like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ghu7cBG_cQA

I don't see class balancing happening, it really defeats the whole purpose of what people have been asking for.

The question though is which version of the 2 years of balancing do we go with? Which class is going to get the shaft just because their class happened to be shit in the patch the community decided was the best one?

Early warriors for example was in a pretty bad place.

[RapBreon]

What, you mean like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ghu7cBG_cQA

I don't see class balancing happening, it really defeats the whole purpose of what people have been asking for.

Wow I did not know about that, that is fucking hilarious. I suppose I'll add an addendum that they can't stack.

I don't see it happening either, but I'm curious non-the-less from people who think it really, really should.

[bladeXcrasher]

The question though is which version of the 2 years of balancing do we go with? Which class is going to get the shaft just because their class happened to be shit in the patch the community decided was the best one?

Early warriors for example was in a pretty bad place.

There is a thread about that. 38% people said 1.1, 30% said 1.12, rest didn't care or picked random patches. Regardless of what happens, people will be unhappy.

[Warning]

The question though is which version of the 2 years of balancing do we go with? Which class is going to get the shaft just because their class happened to be shit in the patch the community decided was the best one?

Early warriors for example was in a pretty bad place.

I think a related question is, would it be acceptable to borrow things from another vanilla patch and apply them in the new game.

For example, lets say the main patch used is vanilla 1.12.1, would it be acceptable to use a higher strength value for retri paladins or another variation of their talents if that value or variation existed in a prior vanilla patch? IE, construct the best balanced version of vanilla from pieces that at some point were vanilla.

[Dergiab]

A good start for hybrids would be to have more equipment that is tailored towards a certain spec. Plate with spellpower and defense for example. Useful gear are hard to come by for them basically. My understanding is that it is somewhat remedied with AQ gear, is that correct?

PS: Anyone who feels the need to parrot their opinion that Vanilla needs to remain unchanged, you can just fuck off from this thread. This is a hypothetical discussion.

[deniter]

I really hope they start to develop this game again. For some reason they gave up everything at some point and began to turn the game to WoW jr. With the experience of MMOs they have gotten so far they can surely recognize where things started to go wrong and begin to rebuild the game from that point.

We all know they released the original WoW too soon and in incomplete state, so fixing classes and adding gear is something they should have done from the get go. Doing it now doesn't make it any less 'vanilla' or 'classic', quite the contrary. We could have the game as it was meant to be instead of what they managed to put together before the deadline.

Reading through and answering to the reddit questionnaire i was delighted to see there are suggestions about adding the missing vanilla dungeons and expansion sets without raising the level cap or creating other continents. If this leads to an expanded vanilla WoW without action/arcade gameplay and kiddy content i'm open to at least consider it.

[Kralljin]

A good start for hybrids would be to have more equipment that is tailored towards a certain spec. Plate with spellpower and defense for example. Useful gear are hard to come by for them basically. My understanding is that it is somewhat remedied with AQ gear, is that correct?

You can't fix fundamental issues of certain specs with just gear.

For example, Prot Pallies need some sort of mana reg, so you also have to throw A LOT of Mp5 on that gear as well, Holy pallies went kinda bonkers with mana reg due Crits, them having lots of mp5 early on would make them even stronger.

Aside from that, then also comes up the question - is it new gear or do you want to slap that on existing gear?

[Dergiab]

You can't fix fundamental issues of certain specs with just gear.

For example, Prot Pallies need some sort of mana reg, so you also have to throw A LOT of Mp5 on that gear as well, Holy pallies went kinda bonkers with mana reg due Crits, them having lots of mp5 early on would make them even stronger.

Aside from that, then also comes up the question - is it new gear or do you want to slap that on existing gear?

I am well aware that gear wont solve everything, but it would certainly go a long way. Holy pallies would have their own plate gear with stats that is beneficial to them, comparable to most cloth items they tend to wear anyway.

New gear would be the easiest to to do unless you change the tier drops the way TBC worked.

[Echocho]

There is a thread about that. 38% people said 1.1, 30% said 1.12, rest didn't care or picked random patches. Regardless of what happens, people will be unhappy.

Yeah if they choose 1.1 I probably won't be playing. The game was all over the place. Having to suffer through that for all eternity is a special kind of hell.

Since they can only pick one patch they should go with the most balanced one, make some changes where it's necessary and call it Classic 1.0

[deniter]

Yeah if they choose 1.1 I probably won't be playing. The game was all over the place. Having to suffer through that for all eternity is a special kind of hell.

Since they can only pick one patch they should go with the most balanced one, make some changes where it's necessary and call it Classic 1.0

They won't pick any of the old patches. It's a new game called WoW:Classic and it will have a patch history of its own. The first patch will have lots of bug fixes and features from many of the old game patches. We'll see how it pans out.

[Kralljin]

I am well aware that gear wont solve everything, but it would certainly go a long way.

Out of all the hybrid classes that were deemed "not viable" for raiding, Paladin is probably the most extreme case.

You could fix most hybrid specs (Elemental,Shadow, Balance & Enhance) just by giving them a tool to regenerate mana, Feral might need some numbers tuning but since most things were just copy n' pasted from rogue, you could leave it at that.

However Paladin, outside of Holy, was just such a damn mess.

Holy pallies would have their own plate gear with stats that is beneficial to them, comparable to most cloth items they tend to wear anyway.

Holy Pallies had their "own" gear, basically anything with Int / +Spell / +Heal on Plate was Holy Paladin loot.

But as hinted above, even if you want to add new gear for Prot Paladin, want to slap those beneficial stats for Prot on existing plate items? Introduce new ones? Where do they drop? More useless loot for Horde?

[Nights]

Just wow, how in couple of weeks we went from, "maby current grasphic" to "lets start adding new items"... just amazing how fast ppl start to ignor basics.

if you like your pizza with pinnaple eat with pinnaple, dont ruin my old school peperoni pizza with your pinnaple. but some of you guys tryes to put your pinnaple here and there even tho you ware never intrested in my peperoni pizza in first place...

[Dergiab]

Just wow, how in couple of weeks we went from, "maby current grasphic" to "lets start adding new items"... just amazing how fast ppl start to ignor basics.

if you like your pizza with pinnaple eat with pinnaple, dont ruin my old school peperoni pizza with your pinnaple. but some of you guys tryes to put your pinnaple here and there even tho you ware never intrested in my peperoni pizza in first place...

What is it about "hypothetical scenario" you do not understand?

[Nights]

What is it about "hypothetical scenario" you do not understand?

Check the forum posts since blizzcon and info there will bee classic serveers. Ppl go from thesis to demand in less then a day when someone posts "new idea" New hypothetical" scenario. Wonna bet there is some troll reading topics right now and prolly in less then 24 hours we will have another topic on blizz forums or here demanding new items for certain classes.

this crap have to stop if we want classic servers to not be a total joke, because how can blizz say whom is troll and who are ppl actually planing to play there

[Dergiab]

Check the forum posts since blizzcon and info there will bee classic serveers. Ppl go from thesis to demand in less then a day when someone posts "new idea" New hypothetical" scenario. Wonna bet there is some troll reading topics right now and prolly in less then 24 hours we will have another topic on blizz forums or here demanding new items for certain classes.

this crap have to stop if we want classic servers to not be a total joke, because how can blizz say whom is troll and who are ppl actually planing to play there

This is not demanding or suggesting anything. We are simply swapping theories on what made the class balance wonky in vanilla and what things, in theory would remedy that.

Unless you have something relevant to share to this thread, gtfo. There are countless threads already on opinions on vanilla purity where you can share your parroted thoughts.

FYI I don't want anything changed on Classic servers. Doesn't mean we can't discuss it's shortcomings.

[Mojo03]

There not going to pick a patch and start there.

It's gonna be a comprehensive experience, taking the "best" elements.

They probably should fix druids and pallys to be better tanks. Having only the warrior be a proper tank is dumb. It was then and still is.

[Daffan]

There is a thread about that. 38% people said 1.1, 30% said 1.12, rest didn't care or picked random patches. Regardless of what happens, people will be unhappy.

Because both options have a lot of problems unfortunately, there is no perfect option.

[Dergiab]

Out of all the hybrid classes that were deemed "not viable" for raiding, Paladin is probably the most extreme case.

You could fix most hybrid specs (Elemental,Shadow, Balance & Enhance) just by giving them a tool to regenerate mana, Feral might need some numbers tuning but since most things were just copy n' pasted from rogue, you could leave it at that.

However Paladin, outside of Holy, was just such a damn mess.



Holy Pallies had their "own" gear, basically anything with Int / +Spell / +Heal on Plate was Holy Paladin loot.

But as hinted above, even if you want to add new gear for Prot Paladin, want to slap those beneficial stats for Prot on existing plate items? Introduce new ones? Where do they drop? More useless loot for Horde?

The paladin is only an example because that is what I'm most familiar with.

The easiest solution would be how TBC did it; have raid tier armor be tokens that you "buy" the gear, and one gear set for every spec. Set bonuses could introduce the shortcomings, for example could prot paladins get a "spiritual attunement" set bonus to solve mana isssues.

I'm no game designer so feel free to continue point out holes in my theory