Main Difference between Vanilla and Current WoW/Legion.

[Mullet Man]

Sorry, I won't ignore positives all around in official metrics released, unlike you.

Again, provide a source for those official metrics please.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Again, provide a source for those official metrics please.

... So now you're denying that their company and the product is showing positives all around too?

Ok then. Like I said, blinders, ignorance-tinted for your peace of mind I suppose.

http://files.shareholder.com/downloa...TVI_Slides.pdf

[Eleccybubb]

Again, provide a source for those official metrics please.

Watch him post the "MUAs"

Despite the fact that the quarterly report only shows it for Blizzard and Activision in general. And all WoW usually says is "stable" in most of the recent ones. Stable means jack shit unless there is a number to back it up.

http://files.shareholder.com/downloa...ss_Release.pdf

In fact why the hell am I even bothering dragging myself into this? No point trying to debate with someone like the poster you are quoting mate.

[Netherblood]

Do people not realize that WoW vanilla model was tried in more recent times in Wildstar. While leveling you would fight 1-2 mobs at a time, getting hit by quest mobs special attacks could 1 shot you. Huge grinds to get going at max level, 40man raids, attunments for raids, pvp not very well balanced and bursty. PVE gear being best for pvp, etc. Some of the old WoW devs even worked on the game. Guess what, Wildstar failed horribly. Now I don't think classic servers will be a complete fail, there will be 50-100k players playing on them most likely. However, they won't be able to sustain 1million+ players though like some people claim.

[Eleccybubb]

Do people not realize that WoW vanilla model was tried in more recent times in Wildstar. While leveling you would fight 1-2 mobs at a time, getting hit by quest mobs special attacks could 1 shot you. Huge grinds to get going at max level, 40man raids, attunments for raids, pvp not very well balanced and bursty. PVE gear being best for pvp, etc. Some of the old WoW devs even worked on the game. Guess what, Wildstar failed horribly. Now I don't think classic servers will be a complete fail, there will be 50-100k players playing on them most likely. However, they won't be able to sustain 1million+ players though like some people claim.

Oh for the love of god.

WILDSTAR WAS NOT LIKE VANILLA OR HARDCORE.

No getting hit by a special attack didn't one shot you and this is coming from a Spellslinger who spent a bit of time undergeared, You could easily AoE so again another lie, grinding to 50 wasn't hard at all just some of the zones were garbage, attunements is probably literally the only thing that was Vanilla like along with the one 40 man raid that got it's size reduced and the old devs ironically wanted to make "anything but WoW" and it backfired.

Enough with this already. I swear half the people who spout this about Wildstar played it for 2 weeks then left it alone.

Wildstar did not fail because it tried to be like Vanilla which it wasn't. It failed because it was a mess. Optimization was poor, there was a clear lack of endgame content outside of raiding, the PvP was a disaster and Warplots didn't help, the zone events were mind numbingly boring as were world bosses and the handling of the game upto F2P was a disaster from Carbine.

[Mullet Man]

... So now you're denying that their company and the product is showing positives all around too?

Ok then. Like I said, blinders, ignorance-tinted for your peace of mind I suppose.

http://files.shareholder.com/downloa...TVI_Slides.pdf

Finally, some real data we can discuss like adults.

To summarize:
Stable MAUs due to patch (ie no growth), Franchise is strong (expected), Revenues and OI down from last year.

Specifics for WoW in the report for the lazy:

• World of Warcraft released a large content update in the quarter, leading to stable MAUs1
Q/Q, with strong participation in value added services

• Strength across Overwatch, World of Warcraft, and Hearthstone franchises

• Revenues and OI down Y/Y given comp to last year’s WoW expansion and Overwatch full game sales

[Queen of Hamsters]

Watch him post the "MUAs"

Despite the fact that the quarterly report only shows it for Blizzard and Activision in general. And all WoW usually says is "stable" in most of the recent ones. Stable means jack shit unless there is a number to back it up.

http://files.shareholder.com/downloa...ss_Release.pdf

In fact why the hell am I even bothering dragging myself into this? No point trying to debate with someone like the poster you are quoting mate.

What, someone not invested in believing that a game that's obviously doing well, is on its knees struggling...?

There's a point debating with me, if one brings facts to the table rather than "muh feels". I say millions are playing this game, which of course can't be proven with sub numbers but instead by surrounding factors all combined.

Others say millions don't play, despite all those factors. I'm 100% open to seeing what they base that assumption upon other than the final sub report which still showed millions playing...

[sam86]

inner fire pushed your armor above leather levels.
shield was fine, and mind flay slowed their movement speed, by the time they got to you they were low enough to die to a mind blast.
and you also didnt have many mana problems thanks to that spirit tap.

shadow form also gave reduced damage taken

inner fire had limited charges that ends fast, mind flay slows only 1 mob and has no effect on ranged, shadowform reduce physical dmg only and since u still needed to heal urself getting in/out of shadow form eats ur mana, even with spirit tap u still had serious mana problem in compare to other cloth users (mage create their own food and warlocks were 2nd best solo class anyway), and u ignored touch of weakness bug, even if i didn't suffer from it (was for forsaken only) I still remember it as probably longest bug i know that stayed in official game ever (from introduction until patch 2.3 i think)
EDIT: I think vanish / pet still follow bug stayed far longer, also it wasn't consistent like touch of weakness that had 100% chance to occur
and if u want to compare ur solo with rogue/druid be my guest, druid lvl as feral and use mana to heal between fights (one of very few classes in old times that had almost no downtime thanks to that), and rogue pick their fights in first place so easy to lvl, also quests vs elementals/mechanics were nightmare however because immune to poison dmg
I don't know about shaman (wasn't horde back then), but compare priest to any other class except warrior will show why they were competing on worst class to lvl

[Dergiab]

Never played warrior in vanilla, but rogue honestly wasn't as bad as some people picture them.

It was bad for Rogue leveling, but they had great escape mechanics. But escaping a battle yields no experience points.

[Tomana]

It was bad for Rogue leveling, but they had great escape mechanics. But escaping a battle yields no experience points.

Well, that's better than some specs that had bad leveling AND no escape mechanics.

[Devilyaki]

After you leveled a few to 60 it became not that hard or long to do.

[skannerz22]

vanilla was an auto attack simulator
legion was a casino simulator

[Dahij]

no, it was not.

Yes it was, at least with my BM hunter I could pull and kill more than one mob.

[skannerz22]

So... still no source for your numbers.
Got it. As expected. You made up numbers to fit your narrative.

We can also argue that Retail is doing so poorly that they hope to reboot interest by releasing Classic.
You need to take off your rose tinted Retail glasses.

they mean 5.5 warlords of draenor
and 100mill accounts during mists of pandaria animated statistic blizzard posted on the main site
jagex then posted 200mill accounts for runescape to try and defame wow/blizzard
they did not make up any numbers

[Lionhearte0]

The BfA cinematic trailer has 7.8 million views.
The Features overview has 2 million
Classic Announcement has 1.7 million views.

You were saying?

Did you just use view counts to prove subscription numbers? LOL. An epic 5 min battle has more views than a 1 minute clip of a gnome and splices of old cinematics in reverse? Yeah, you're a dumbass.

How does it feel that your precious retail is trending down to 1 million subs?
How does it feel knowing the game is doing so poorly, they had to ruin it more by adding CRZ to make it look like more people are playing?
How does it feel hearing they just confirmed new realm mergers coming up soon? Why the need to merge realms if their population is growing? Lol.

Face it, your precious "muh retail" is dying. It must hurt you so much :^)

[Deleted]

Did you just use view counts to prove subscription numbers? LOL. An epic 5 min battle has more views than a 1 minute clip of a gnome and splices of old cinematics in reverse? Yeah, you're a dumbass.

How does it feel that your precious retail is trending down to 1 million subs?
How does it feel knowing the game is doing so poorly, they had to ruin it more by adding CRZ to make it look like more people are playing?
How does it feel hearing they just confirmed new realm mergers coming up soon? Why the need to merge realms if their population is growing? Lol.

Face it, your precious "muh retail" is dying. It must hurt you so much :^)

Fun fact is that with 1 million it is still a big success. And we are Far above 1 million

Edit according to people on forums wow is dying since tbc and still the leading MMO.

[Direpenguin]

With good gear, normal mobs are no threat in any expansion.

Bullshit. In Vanilla, you could still very easily die if you got 3+ orcs on you in Burning Steppes. Especially if 2+ of them were casters. And the farms in Plaguelands were no faceroll either.

Rose colored glasses work both ways apparently.

- - - Updated - - -

Fun fact is that with 1 million it is still a big success.

Another fun fact is that subjective declarations aren't facts.

[Forogil]

Others say millions don't play, despite all those factors. I'm 100% open to seeing what they base that assumption upon other than the final sub report which still showed millions playing...

The ones claiming that millions don't play seem wrong (i.e. millions are actually playing retail).

Since Blizzard don't release numbers we can as a baseline look at wowprogress and sum up the realm numbers for unique characters that do raiding in T20 we have 952k in EU, 824k in NA - and unknown number of Chinese players (excluding 60k in TW).

However, there are still many players that are in guild that don't do organized raids; and only about 60% of guilds that do organized raids actually kill heroic bosses (and the numbers were similar during MoP).

[Tharkkun]

You are confusing challenging with dangerous.
I specifically used the word dangerous.

As a new melee character in vanilla, you can't say the first Level 1 Dire Wolf didn't take half your health bar.
As you skilled up and learned your class you could take on additional mobs or even an elite. But the danger was still there.

This is my first kill on a brand new character in Legion.
Health bar at 95% or more.
https://i.imgur.com/eQFwLLC.jpg

It all depended on which class/spec you were.