Blood elves, high elves and what could have been

[Combatbutler]

And, humans and High Elves had Alliances back long before the second war. Humans learned magic from the Elves, and they fought together in the troll wars and so on. 100s if not 1000s of years before the fall of Lordaeron.

You mean the humans forced the elves to teach them magic, which many elves regret to this very day.

When I write how it suddenly turned this is what I have in mind. Humans and Elves were allied for a long long time. Whatever happened in the TFT and in Quel'thalas(TBC) is a small part in all this.

The only human Kingdom the elves had an alliance with was Dalaran, they didn't really care for the rest. And this one true ally betrayed them in TfT.

All this is why I say they disregard what happened in all those years before. The humans helped the High Elves during the troll wars, not the other way around. And I can't recall any big disputes before the Alliance felt in WC3, but if there is, my bad.

This isn't entirely true, the humans needed the elves alone they had a snowball chance in hell of beating the trolls, since Quel'thalas was tanking the troll main army. They forced the elves to teach them magic and then decided to send troops in order to help beat their common enemy.

[Mehrunes]

you should also take in considaration why garithos was treating kael'thas like that. was garithos a racist bastard? yes....but why? he didnt born this way....in fact something that very few people are aware for is that garithos went to help the high elves and protect quel thalas against the horde. as he did though a small band of orcs broke off from the main invading force and put blackwood to the torch killing all of its inhabitants. garithos's family perished trying to defend the lives and homes of their subjects. garithos blamed the elves for the loss of his home and family believing that they had diverted troops that could have been used to defend humanity.

And not only was there nothing to support him putting the blame on the High Elves, the idea that these troops could have been defending humanity rather than defending Quel'thalas as they were doing and that not doing so is something High Elves should be blamed for implies that in his mind humans deserved the protection more, which is racist.

[Arrashi]

And not only was there nothing to support him putting the blame on the High Elves, the idea that these troops could have been defending humanity rather than defending Quel'thalas as they were doing and that not doing so is something High Elves should be blamed for implies that in his mind humans deserved the protection more, which is racist.

I mean lets be real, garithos problem wasn't coming from his racism, it was coming from the fact that he was dim motherfucker. Just like those guys on nationalist marches heyooooooooooo.

[Mehrunes]

I mean lets be real, garithos problem wasn't coming from his racism, it was coming from the fact that he was dim motherfucker. Just like those guys on nationalist marches heyooooooooooo.

Why not both ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Though I suppose him being racist stems from him being a dim motherfucker in the first place.

[Dagoth Ur]

Garithos did nothing wrong.

This video is gold, especially the way it ends, ''never trust an elf''!

I can't help feeling that, no matter how much racist and unlikable Garithos was, he would be like the breath of fresh air for humans of Warcraft.
They could actually have good internal conflict storylines with someone like that still around.

Also it would hopefully lessen moral absolutism that is prevalent in Alliance and bring some greyness to it.

[Graden]

I can't help feeling that, no matter how much racist and unlikable Garithos was, he would be like the breath of fresh air for humans of Warcraft.
They could actually have good internal conflict storylines with someone like that still around.

Also it would hopefully lessen moral absolutism that is prevalent in Alliance and bring some greyness to it.

Plenty of people agree according to this.
I wasn't aware that Garithos has so many supporters.

[Dagoth Ur]

Plenty of people agree according to this.
I wasn't aware that Garithos has so many supporters.

Man, I really wanna see Garithos vs Garrosh 1v1 cinematic someday. I would even be okay with another alternate timeline story if we get that.

The trash talk between them would be pure gold.

[Arrashi]

Man, I really wanna see Garithos vs Garrosh 1v1 cinematic someday. I would even be okay with another alternate timeline story if we get that.

The trash talk between them would be pure gold.

Epic rap battles of azeroth.

[Broken Fox]

I can't help feeling that, no matter how much racist and unlikable Garithos was, he would be like the breath of fresh air for humans of Warcraft.
They could actually have good internal conflict storylines with someone like that still around.

Also it would hopefully lessen moral absolutism that is prevalent in Alliance and bring some greyness to it.

I feel like that’s Genn’s role

[Doffen]

You mean the humans forced the elves to teach them magic, which many elves regret to this very day.



The only human Kingdom the elves had an alliance with was Dalaran, they didn't really care for the rest. And this one true ally betrayed them in TfT.




This isn't entirely true, the humans needed the elves alone they had a snowball chance in hell of beating the trolls, since Quel'thalas was tanking the troll main army. They forced the elves to teach them magic and then decided to send troops in order to help beat their common enemy.

Think I answered enough on my take on all this, but it seemd to me that in every thread the elves are always the victims. Why is that? They were arrogant aristocrats(a-holes were maybe over the top) who cared little for other kind, and the humans were scattered and weak when the elves came to the Eastern Kingdoms.
The Elves cared little for the weak Human race and looked down on them. They had the upper hand but with help from a very clever leader in Trollbane the Humans started to be strong, with the help of elves. And they gave them magic for the help with the trolls. Anesterian Sunstrider needed help and the humans saw this as an awesome opportunity to make an alliance. Thus they learned magic.

[Zulkhan]

To be honest I completely forgot about him XD

Not forgetting about Houjin/Tushui Pandaren is an herculean effort in itself.

Alleria wasn't super pro-Alliance either. She's anti-Orc. She helped in Second War because she considered Orcs to be a bigger threat than what Anesterian believed and wanted to protect her country. And then she went on a vendetta against Orcs for killing her family members.

Not saying she was pro-Alliance ever from a political standpoint but she became close friend of some Alliance members eventually. Of course, this personal connection misled people and made them feel elves and humans/dwarves are buddies by default even though that's not the case for the races as a whole, it was true only for a few individuals.

[Dagoth Ur]

I feel like that’s Genn’s role

Yeah, I guess you could say it partially is.

But Genn basically serves as Anduin's mentor figure atm. He still supports Anduin and his aggressive attitude towards Forsaken is completely justified. Only thing Genn is guilty of is stupidly attacking Forsaken in the middle of the war with the Burning Legion. In the end there's no internal conflict for Alliance there.

What I meant was, Garithos could serve as both instigator of conflict and political rival/obstacle for Anduin on his way to learning how to become good and just king.
For example, imagine Garithos calling Anduin out on his age and inexperience in effort to score political points and try to take crown for himself or something like that. Could be cool way to shook Stormwind up a bit.

[Broken Fox]

Yeah, I guess you could say it partially is.

But Genn basically serves as Anduin's mentor figure atm. He still supports Anduin and his aggressive attitude towards Forsaken is completely justified. Only thing Genn is guilty of is stupidly attacking Forsaken in the middle of the war with the Burning Legion. In the end there's no internal conflict for Alliance there.

What I meant was, Garithos could serve as both instigator of conflict and political rival/obstacle for Anduin on his way to learning how to become good and just king.
For example, imagine Garithos calling Anduin out on his age and inexperience in effort to score political points and try to take crown for himself or something like that. Could be cool way to shook Stormwind up a bit.

A lot of those Forsaken wouldn’t be Forsaken at all had Genn not locked himself behind a wall and refused to aid his allies for years. And then their leader ends up killing his son. Poetic justice. Genn’s a shithead and I’m guessing a major catalyst in the war.

But yeah I don’t see him betraying Anduin or trying to usurp power in the Alliance. He just has a hard-on for the Horde.

[Techno-Druid]

Not forgetting about Houjin/Tushui Pandaren is an herculean effort in itself.

I feel like Chen should have been the Horde pandaren leader, like he literally helped found Durotar.

[Deleted]

A lot of those Forsaken wouldn’t be Forsaken at all had Genn not locked himself behind a wall and refused to aid his allies for years. And then their leader ends up killing his son. Poetic justice. Genn’s a shithead and I’m guessing a major catalyst in the war.

But yeah I don’t see him betraying Anduin or trying to usurp power in the Alliance. He just has a hard-on for the Horde.

a lot of those forsaken wouldn't be forsaken??? this is pure speculation. because gilneas could stop arthas right? no way in hell. if gilneas had opened the gates to go to war against the scourge it would be a matter of days for arthas to transform gilneas into another scourge kingdom. gilneas was lucky that arthas had no interest in it otherwise it was doomed.
and second genn closed his kingdom in a time of peace and he had every right to since he is a king of his own kingdom.....and when the scourge came they were already in civil war and the worgen curse later

[Arrashi]

a lot of those forsaken wouldn't be forsaken??? this is pure speculation. because gilneas could stop arthas right? no way in hell. if gilneas had opened the gates to go to war against the scourge it would be a matter of days for arthas to transform gilneas into another scourge kingdom. gilneas was lucky that arthas had no interest in it otherwise it was doomed.
and second genn closed his kingdom in a time of peace and he had every right to since he is a king of his own kingdom.....and when the scourge came they were already in civil war and the worgen curse later

Yeah, that wall and gate is totally what stopped arthas. Especially the frostwyrms.

[Broken Fox]

a lot of those forsaken wouldn't be forsaken??? this is pure speculation. because gilneas could stop arthas right? no way in hell. if gilneas had opened the gates to go to war against the scourge it would be a matter of days for arthas to transform gilneas into another scourge kingdom. gilneas was lucky that arthas had no interest in it otherwise it was doomed.
and second genn closed his kingdom in a time of peace and he had every right to since he is a king of his own kingdom.....and when the scourge came they were already in civil war and the worgen curse later

OK Genn blarghlbbahggh

[Graden]

Yeah, that wall and gate is totally what stopped arthas. Especially the frostwyrms.

''Citizens of Gilneas! I have given you ample opportunities to surrender, but you have stubbornly refused! Know that today, your entire kingdom and your ancient heritage will end! Death itself has come to claim the home of the Giln- wait what is that? A wall and a gate!? Belay that order my minions, there is nothing we can do here"

[Combatbutler]

Think I answered enough on my take on all this, but it seemd to me that in every thread the elves are always the victims. Why is that? They were arrogant aristocrats(a-holes were maybe over the top) who cared little for other kind, and the humans were scattered and weak when the elves came to the Eastern Kingdoms.

Elves aren't victims, they mistreat humans and the humans mistreat them. That is the entire point of it all. Despite what many preach the high elves and humanity as a whole were never close to each other.

The Elves cared little for the weak Human race and looked down on them. They had the upper hand but with help from a very clever leader in Trollbane the Humans started to be strong, with the help of elves. And they gave them magic for the help with the trolls. Anesterian Sunstrider needed help and the humans saw this as an awesome opportunity to make an alliance. Thus they learned magic.

It never was an awesome Alliance and never will be it was an alliance of convenience, nothing more and nothing less. With the price paid for the assistance of the humans, being incredibly steep, it was a smart move of the humans but it did not help to foster good relations, quite the opposite.

It was after 16.000 years the arcane knowledge they got from the elves, which allowed one of the oldest races on the planet to finally create a noteworthy civilization.

[Deleted]

Is there anyone super invested in Void Elves coming out of Blood Elves? I've seen people enthusiastic for Void Elves, but I've yet to see anyone really eager for them to be exiled Blood Elves.

I'm very happy that the Void elves are Blood elf exiles. If the Void elves were mutated High elves I'd be uninstalling wow.