Heroic Argus is too easy for an end-of-expansion boss

[Tehterokkar]

This boss has been 1 of the biggest jokes ever in this expansion.

It shares the spot with Xavius for being way too easy and uninteresting, and makes KJ look like a brick wall.

First off, there are barely any mechanics. The only thing I had to do in our 2 split runs was run to an orb in P1 to get DPS increase, move from big mean cone with 2 second cast time. Dodge some very obvious lines in P2 every 10 seconds. P3 you had again some lines and had to interrupt 1 specific cast. Then P4 is just afk and nuke boss while switching to orbs every 30s or something and dodge small swirly circles.

Like there is NOTHING going on. It's literally a free kill for any guild as long as they can assign healing/raid CDs to key parts of the fight.

Even our Healers were asking if there was supposed to be some raid damage in p2, because they had nothing to do.

I remember Archimonde being a huge brickwall for even higher up Mythic guilds, but this boss is just a joke.

[SLSAMG]

Mate, it's only Heroic...

[Deleted]

Mate, it's only Heroic...

Heroic (normal) Garrosh was tough as nails.
Archimonde was a bit easier than that, but way harder than Argus.

[Aggrophobic]

Mate, it's only Heroic...

While true, this raid was really, really simple.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

While true, this raid was really, really simple.

Every heroic boss in Legion has been a joke except Gul'dan and Kil'jaeden, and both of them were killed by every half decent guild within 50 pulls. Heroic servers no purpose anymore other than farming ap and wf/tf. Could be as easy as LFR for all i care.

[tangers58]

Heroic (normal) Garrosh was tough as nails.
Archimonde was a bit easier than that, but way harder than Argus.

If you thought garrosh was hard you obviously aren't the best judge of difficulty

[Deleted]

I was solo healing normal Garrosh for most of its lifetime so no it was not tough as nails

And I was solotanking it, but it was still proportionaly harder than rest of the expansion's normal content.

[Aggrophobic]

Every heroic boss in Legion has been a joke except Gul'dan and Kil'jaeden, and both of them were killed by every half decent guild within 50 pulls. Heroic servers no purpose anymore other than farming ap and wf/tf. Could be as easy as LFR for all i care.

I agree but there are people who only raid this and you'd think they would get borded really fast when even the last bosses are as easy as this.

I get the feeling that Blizzard just overreacted when people told them ToS was too hard and they just took this one down too far.
We'll seen next week though.

[Siglius]

I agree but there are people who only raid this and you'd think they would get borded really fast when even the last bosses are as easy as this.

I get the feeling that Blizzard just overreacted when people told them ToS was too hard and they just took this one down too far.
We'll seen next week though.

Rest of the raid seems pretty on point, both Coven and Aggramar are fairly difficult for heroic bosses imo, only Argus seems out of place. I would partly blame that on his death gimmic being too forgiving in the last phase, but what do I know. Mythic has the potential to be very different since half the fight is completely different.

[Deleted]

That wasn't the point though, and you yourself invalidated your original statement. I do wonder how Mythic Argus will play out though, cuz this fight is significantly easier than KJ so far. Doesn't it have a phase where Sarg shows us supposedly?

Just because you could solotank a boss doesn't trivialise the fight. That was the result of tanks being OP damage dealers in Mists. And we are not talking about Mythic here, ofc Mythic is gonna be crisp. It always is, they spent way too much time overtuning Mythic, and they rarely focus on Heroic. But they should realise that Mythic is indeed only accesed by a small portion of the raiders, when Heroic is the staple endgame for casual raiding. And casual raiders are the majority.

[Isheria]

Just because it is heroic doesn't mean the boss should be this easy, first of all there are 2 damage boost mechanics in this yet you can 100% ignore them because the boss has almost no hp and phases cycle way too quickly and there's pretty much no difficulty whatsoever. The only way to wipe on this boss is basically screwing up cosmic beacon interrupt on phase 3 and even then you can still kill the boss even if 1 person survives since the transition resses everyone automatically. This boss basically needs at least another 6-8b hp if not more (on a 30-man group) in order to be a proper boss.

[Taeldorian]

In terms of argus it’s solely due to the death mechanic and the repeated damage boosts throughout the fight.

If at any point in P3 you die you can just release repeatedly. So, it’s impossible to wipe. It’s a very very fun fight imo. I enjoy it a lot but it’s obvious to see that the death mechanic makes the fight a bit too easy especially when paired with the damage boosts..

However, that entire final half of the boss fight is different in mythic. We have no idea what’s going to happen. So it could be insanely hard for all we know.

Edit: also, I killed heroic KJ with a pug before any nerfs came out. My guild got it a day after. It wasn’t as hard as people are saying. It was rough, but not super crazy. Mythic is obviously a different story.

[Siglius]

In terms of argus it’s solely due to the death mechanic.

If at any point in P3 you die you can just release repeatedly. So, it’s impossible to wipe. It’s a very very fun fight imo. I enjoy it a lot but it’s obvious to see that the death mechanic makes the fight a bit too easy.

However, that entire final half of the boss fight is different in mythic. We have no idea what’s going to happen. So it could be insanely hard for all we know.

Edit: also, I killed heroic KJ with a pug before any nerfs came out. My guild got it a day after. It wasn’t as hard as people are saying. It was rough, but not super crazy. Mythic is obviously a different story.

I've kinda been speculating that the reason why mythic replaces the last two phase is simply because the ressing mechanics is an entierly new gimmick and they were unsure if they could tune it properly for mythic.

I agree with the rest, if p4 were actually difficult it would be en entierly different fight.

[Ahovv]

I'm not sure I would trust the tuning insight of someone who only raids heroic.

[Deleted]

Boss needs way way more health. Even if there weren't any player power increasing effects he would have way too little. P1 and P2 (why is the boss not using tortured rage here...) are missing 2-3 abilities, resident sleeper. P3 is ok for dps and tanks, resident sleeper again for healers if beacons are kicked correctly. P4 has robust mechanics in place, with current tuning irrelevant though, just zerg and ignore everything. It's funny how you don't need the tree at all during the phase to kill the boss (outside of initial rezz ofc).

Certainly one of the biggest tuning slip ups in regards to a heroic tier endboss ever. Which btw is the only relevant comparison here - mythic is irrelevant, because the target audience this is supposed to last for longer than the first week is completely different.

[Deleted]

Boss needs way way more health. Even if there weren't any player power increasing effects he would have way too little. P1 and P2 are missing 2-3 abilities, resident sleeper. P3 is ok for dps and tanks, resident sleeper again for healers if beacons are kicked correctly. P4 has robust mechanics in place, with current tuning irrelevant though, just zerg and ignore everything. It's funny how you don't need the tree at all during the phase to kill the boss (outside of initial rezz ofc).

Certainly one of the biggest tuning slip ups in regards to a heroic tier endboss ever. Which btw is the only relevant comparison here - mythic is irrelevant, because the target audience this is supposed to last longer than the first week is completely different.

You and the OP aren't the "targeted" audience. You are both Mythic raiders with 940/950+ in the whole raid.

So not sure what you 2 are moaning about. This boss will be hard enough for the people its actually targeting. The ones that are finishing off Normal now slowly getting into Heroic.

[Deleted]

You and the OP aren't the "targeted" audience. You are both Mythic raiders with 940/950+ in the whole raid.

So not sure what you 2 are moaning about. This boss will be hard enough for the people its actually targeting. The ones that are finishing off Normal now slowly getting into Heroic.

Agreed I'm not part of the target audience. That's why I don't care that much would have steamrolled it no matter what.
But the target audience will find this disappointing as well: freeloot even for them after eventually overcoming harder coven and aggramar heroic.
And also who doesn't have 940 these days? My alts that have never done mythic have that just from heroic tomb and weekly m+ chest.

[Tehterokkar]

You and the OP aren't the "targeted" audience. You are both Mythic raiders with 940/950+ in the whole raid.

So not sure what you 2 are moaning about. This boss will be hard enough for the people its actually targeting. The ones that are finishing off Normal now slowly getting into Heroic.

There is nothing about "target audience".

The boss is piss easy because there are simply no mechanics to it.

If you get even a bit lucky, the only thing a DPS has to do in this fight boils down to:

P1 - move with raid every 20s when boss casts Cone of Death

P2 - Move from obvious black lines every 5-10s

P3 - Move from obvious black lines every 20s

P4 - Move from swirlies every 5s


How can this even remotely fall under the "oh but you are mythic raider doing heroic bosses" -card?

Even with 10 less ilvl overall(we had 941.8 and 941.4 ilvl in our 2 splits average) in the raid it would still be easily doable with better raid CD assignment.

[borisshayo]

You and the OP aren't the "targeted" audience. You are both Mythic raiders with 940/950+ in the whole raid.

So not sure what you 2 are moaning about. This boss will be hard enough for the people its actually targeting. The ones that are finishing off Normal now slowly getting into Heroic.

Most heroic raiders are going to kill it with much better gear than current mythic raiders have, which will make the boss even more of a joke. Phases 1 and 2 should have been merged together or something so there's actual mechanics happening. Phase 3 would be okay if it weren't for the fact that everyone gets ressed in the transition to P4 so even if you get through it with a single person alive you're perfectly fine. P4 is just undertuned. As it stands Argus is probably the 4th easiest boss in the raid.

[Ophenia]

People with 950i crying that Argus Heroic is too easy

Hint : Argus Heroic is not balanced for you. We will hear about your complaints when you'll be one-shotting Argus Mythic, this version is the one balanced for you.

I'm pretty sure a few "Heroic guilds" or Casual players will have a hard time dealing with Argus.

There is nothing about "target audience".

The boss is piss easy because there are simply no mechanics to it.

If you get even a bit lucky, the only thing a DPS has to do in this fight boils down to:

P1 - move with raid every 20s when boss casts Cone of Death

P2 - Move from obvious black lines every 5-10s

P3 - Move from obvious black lines every 20s

P4 - Move from swirlies every 5s


How can this even remotely fall under the "oh but you are mythic raider doing heroic bosses" -card?

Even with 10 less ilvl overall(we had 941.8 and 941.4 ilvl in our 2 splits average) in the raid it would still be easily doable with better raid CD assignment.

And what is a great heroic fight then ?

Kil'Jaeden boils down to, for a random DPS :
P1 : hit the boss
Interphase : AFK
P2 : hit the boss, cleave the adds
Interphase : find Illidaddy or follow your group and kill the adds
P4 : hit the boss, and once during the complete fight, go into the vacuum cleaner

Wow indeed Kil'jaeden looked piss easy too