We're Taking Your President From You Episode III: Flynn Likely Flips

[Felya]

I think you're starting to see the light. This has nothing to do with collusion at all. There was no deal during the campaign for sanction relief for Clinton dirt and Flynn is just pleading guilty so he doesn't hurt Muellers feelings.

Why would Flynn lying to America, about his negotiating with Russia, be a problem?

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Of course you haven't seen anything out of Popadopoulus deal yet, we haven't seen the next indictment yet, just another plea deal. We also haven't seen a grand jury or any other form of trial yet, even Manafort isn't in trial yet. At least you have an excuse for not understanding anything about the American legal system.

What do you mean we haven’t seen anything out of Papadopoulos deal yet? There has been 2 indictments and a guilty plea since... we did also have a Manafort bail hearing, that resulted to limiting his travel between a handful of states and a 15 million dollar bond.

[Ripster42]

Why would Flynn lying to America, about his negotiating with Russia, be a problem?

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What do you mean we haven’t seen anything out of Papadopoulos deal yet? There has been 2 indictments and a guilty plea since... we did also have a Manafort bail hearing, that resulted to limiting his travel between a handful of states and a 15 million dollar bond.

12.5mil in property with his wife having to agree to turn over an additional 10mil if he doesn't show last I heard.

[Skroe]

I'm going to engage in a thought experiment here. Bare with me. The below is edited. I italicized the changed parts.
Edited from: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/01/u...stigation.html

Michael Flynn Pleads Guilty to Lying to the F.B.I. and Will Cooperate With Taliban Inquiry

By MICHAEL D. SHEAR and ADAM GOLDMANDEC. 1, 2017

WASHINGTON — President Trump’s former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, pleaded guilty on Friday to lying to the F.B.I. about conversations with the Taliban ambassador in Pakistan last December, becoming the first senior White House official to cut a cooperation deal in the special counsel’s wide-ranging inquiry into rogue foreign policy by non-administration personnel.

Mr. Flynn’s discussions with Abdul Salam Zaeef, the Taliban ambassador, were part of a coordinated effort by Mr. Trump’s aides to create foreign policy before they were in power, documents released as part of Mr. Flynn’s plea agreement show. Their efforts undermined the existing policy of President Barack Obama and flouted a warning from a senior Obama administration official to stop meddling in foreign affairs before the inauguration.

The documents do not disclose what Mr. Trump knew about Mr. Flynn’s discussions. But in at least one instance, prosecutors say, Mr. Flynn was directed by a “very senior member” of the presidential transition team to discuss a United Nations resolution. Mr. Trump’s lawyers believe that unnamed aide was Mr. Trump’s son-in-law and close adviser, Jared Kushner, according to a lawyer briefed on the matter.

The transition team was led by Vice President Mike Pence. Its top members included Mr. Kushner; Reince Priebus, Mr. Trump’s first chief of staff; and K.T. McFarland, who was Mr. Flynn’s deputy and was later appointed to be the ambassador to Singapore. Mr. Flynn spoke to Ms. McFarland about another of his conversations with Mr. Zaeef, according to the lawyer.

Russia and the Taliban. Both enemies of the United States of America. Both profoundly evil regimes opposed to democracy and human rights. Both seeking to overturn their regional, and eventually global order. Both attacked us in the last 20 years.

Becomes a bit more striking when we change names though eh? But it's the _EXACT_ same. Shalcker's foreign policy line is a load of crap, and also entirely besides the point. Why?

Because it is a crime.
That Michael Flynn, convicted felon, plead guilty to.

And then he agreed to tell Mueller everything he knows without the presence of a lawyer or being able to invoke the 5th Amendment.

[Allybeboba]

I guess Flynn should have told the FBI “I do not recall”. That seems to be his mistake is this.


Cheers

[Breccia]

Sorry, but unlike you, I'm not going to have an epileptic fit over this.

Um...you're the one who pointed it out, intentionally bypassing basically every scrap of context to do so.

Like I said, beyond pathetic.

[Arvei]

The false premise you and your ilk start from, that you are somehow owed information gathered from an ongoing investigation, and that the lack of information which you aren't entitled to, somehow proves your point, is laughable.

Again, on your break today you may want to discuss a new strategy with comrade supervisor. Or maybe not. It may highlight your poor performance.

I wonder if he's actually managed to convince anyone of any of his and his employer's garbage? He seems very inefficient.

[Skroe]

I guess Flynn should have told the FBI “I do not recall”. That seems to be his mistake is this.


Cheers

Mistake? You think that the only source Mueller has is people? Every criminal prosecutor interviewed based on their experience has made clear that deals like this come at the end, as a capstone, above a mountain of supporting evidence.

Mueller has everything from the US Intelligence Community, Five Eyes and our allies. And who knows what other witnesses he has... people whose names we don't know yet... the Papadopoulos' of the world.

Flynn is getting off easy, precisely because he is now Mueller's star witness against certainly Kuschner, and probably Trump. But star witnesses are on top of a mountain of other evidence.

Flynn has been part of the US intelligence community for decades. Of all the Trump inner circle, he was the most exposed. He made some money off his consultancy after he was fired by Obama, but unlike Manafort or Trump, he was not very wealthy. In absence of his consultancy - which has been shot for some time now - his source of income was his Army pension, to the tune of $180,000 a year. A pension that can be removed for criminal actions. And without that pension, his family is on the street.

He had every reason to cooperate and not "forget", because at least now, he can preserve some aspects of his life. Had he "forgotten" and been caught later - and he knows the resources Mueller has - he would have lost everything, instead of just a little.

Justice always gets its way.

[Allybeboba]

Mistake? You think that the only source Mueller has is people? Every criminal prosecutor interviewed based on their experience has made clear that deals like this come at the end, as a capstone, above a mountain of supporting evidence.

Mueller has everything from the US Intelligence Community, Five Eyes and our allies. And who knows what other witnesses he has... people whose names we don't know yet... the Papadopoulos' of the world.

Flynn is getting off easy, precisely because he is now Mueller's star witness against certainly Kuschner, and probably Trump. But star witnesses are on top of a mountain of other evidence.

Flynn has been part of the US intelligence community for decades. Of all the Trump inner circle, he was the most exposed. He made some money off his consultancy after he was fired by Obama, but unlike Manafort or Trump, he was not very wealthy. In absence of his consultancy - which has been shot for some time now - his source of income was his Army pension, to the tune of $180,000 a year. A pension that can be removed for criminal actions. And without that pension, his family is on the street.

He had every reason to cooperate and not "forget", because at least now, he can preserve some aspects of his life. Had he "forgotten" and been caught later - and he knows the resources Mueller has - he would have lost everything, instead of just a little.

Justice always gets its way.

He got convicted of lying. If he had not lied to the FBI he wouldn’t be in this situation. All he had to say was “I do not recall” as others have done.

[Felya]

12.5mil in property with his wife having to agree to turn over an additional 10mil if he doesn't show last I heard.

Yeah, I wouldn’t take my word for the number. I saw it on here and it might not be remembered right.

[Draco-Onis]

He got convicted of lying. If he had not lied to the FBI he wouldn’t be in this situation. All he had to say was “I do not recall” as others have done.

Actually Flynn had a number of charges pending against him, he pleaded to lying as part of the deal there was no shortage of things to take him and his son down on. He could have spent the rest of his life in prison so whatever he gave up must have been worth it.

[Pipebomb]

Any discussion on ABC having to change the story? This story said candidate Trump instead of president-elect Trump

Correction: During a live Special Report, ABC News reported that a confidant of Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn said Flynn was prepared to testify that then-candidate Donald Trump instructed him to contact Russian officials DURING THE CAMPAIGN. That source later clarified that during the campaign, Trump assigned Flynn and a small circle of other senior advisers to find ways to repair relations with Russia and other hot spots. It was shortly after the election, that President-elect Trump directed Flynn to contact Russian officials on topics that included working jointly against ISIS.

Flynn's still in trouble, don't get your hopes up on him testifying anything bad against Trump though... I just don't see it. He seems pretty loyal to Trump.

But this change in ABC's story means Trump is NOT in violation of the Logan Act, correct?

[Felya]

I guess Flynn should have told the FBI “I do not recall”. That seems to be his mistake is this.


Cheers

It’s funnier than that... he couldn’t say he didn’t remember. Because, Pence repeated the lie on national television. He couldn’t say he didn’t remember, because he told Pence that it didn’t happen. If he didn’t say shit to Pence or if the liberal media didn’t question Pence, to result in Flynn’s lie being revealed, he could claim he didn’t remember.

It’s why this is all so stupid... Trump could have fired Comey and justified it with Rosenstein’s letter. That was fine... but, again... Trump goes on national television and tells liberal media, that the firing was about the Russian investigation. Now, it goes from nothing, to obstruction, just because Trump’s camp cannot keep their mouths shut on national television (see also twitter).

[Draco-Onis]

Flynn's still in trouble, don't get your hopes up on him testifying anything bad against Trump though... I just don't see it. He seems pretty loyal to Trump.

I seriously doubt he is more loyal to Trump then his son which was also on the table, if he recants for some reason Mueller will crucify them both.

[Blade Wolf]

I'm going to engage in a thought experiment here. Bare with me. The below is edited. I italicized the changed parts.
Edited from: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/01/u...stigation.html



Russia and the Taliban. Both enemies of the United States of America. Both profoundly evil regimes opposed to democracy and human rights. Both seeking to overturn their regional, and eventually global order. Both attacked us in the last 20 years.

Becomes a bit more striking when we change names though eh? But it's the _EXACT_ same. Shalcker's foreign policy line is a load of crap, and also entirely besides the point. Why?

Because it is a crime.
That Michael Flynn, convicted felon, plead guilty to.

And then he agreed to tell Mueller everything he knows without the presence of a lawyer or being able to invoke the 5th Amendment.

Not even able to plead the 5th? damn.

[Incredibale]

Um...you're the one who pointed it out, intentionally bypassing basically every scrap of context to do so.

Like I said, beyond pathetic.

You got cucked hard by ABC and went full warblgarbl when I made the observation.

BTW, good luck with your Logan Act. You'll need it.

[Shalcker]

I have to do errands and I'll feed you to the woodchipper later, but this bolded part, unless you're working for the _present_ administration is a Federal Crime, and precisely what has turned Flynn into a convicted felon.

Logan Act may be old, but it is the law.

Logan act? Obscure legislation on which noone was convicted for centuries?

Flynn was indicted for lying to FBI. Just like Papadopoulos. It is right there in indictment. Logan act was never mentioned.

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You are saying... that all Flynn did is lie to US government, about negotiating with Russia?

He admitted to it - that is his plea.

The term for hiding negotiations from US, while negotiating a deal with Russia, is colluding with Russia.

There was no "deal with Russia". There was action by Obama's government that were leading to obvious tit-for-tat response, and Trump's team decided it was to their advantage to delay that response.

Russia got absolutely nothing out of it.

[Felya]

Logan act? Obscure legislation on which noone was convicted for centuries?

Yes, it is that rare for someone to commit this crime. What’s the legal difference between and obscure legislation and a different legislation? How often it is used, mixed with misinformation, to make it seem different?

Flynn was indicted for lying to FBI. Just like Papadopoulos. It is right there in indictment. Logan act was never mentioned.

What did Flynn hide from US government?

[Shalcker]

So your theory is that Flynn pleaded guilty to literally everything he did with no context? That Flynn got absolutely nothing out of the plea deal, he just pleaded guilty to everything Mueller accused him of?

He might have gotten something to help his Jr. He does seem to care about that.

[Blade Wolf]

You got cucked hard by ABC and went full warblgarbl when I made the observation.

BTW, good luck with your Logan Act. You'll need it.

Don't even need the Logan act considering Trump has commited god knows how many violations of the emoluments clause.

[Felya]

He admitted to it - that is his plea.

Then... on whose behalf was he nagotiating, if not US? How is he not colluding with Russia, if he is hiding it from US? You are not making any sense...

There was no "deal with Russia". There was action by Obama's government that were leading to obvious tit-for-tat response, and Trump's team decided it was to their advantage to delay that response.

No, they lied to America, not Obama’s administration. You saying that Trump’s team decided to hide their nagotiating from America, is worse than his plea. We are not there yet...

Russia got absolutely nothing out of it.

Russia is who he nagotiated with, according to you. You just said he admired to it...