Heroic Argus is too easy for an end-of-expansion boss

[rangore]

The res mechanic should only work for those killed by his insta kill mechanic. People who died before being insta killed should only be ressable by battle res. that would make the fight more difficult. You can have 1 person finish p3 and still kill the encounter with the current res mechanic, which is dumb. The people who died pre insta kill mechanic should still be able to be battle ressed in p4 tho, just not use the encounter res mechanic until they are battle ressed.

[Deleted]

But it's not because they are wiping a lot - it's because they've only played for a few hours. It'll take them 2 days to clear normal this week, they'll blow through it next week, and probably only raid heroic on raid nights from then on, while many of their players pug normal during downtime.

Difficulty isn't holding them back at all.

Meanwhile, they're all getting more legendaries and mythic+ gear so their ilvl is increasing rapidly. By the time they get to heroic that also won't be difficult.

They aren't one-shotting them either. So it's just fine.

[SLSAMG]

Blizzard has set heroic up to be endgame for the vast majority of raid groups. It's reasonable to expect some challenge.

Well, this is what deluded people want to believe. Fact is, the term "end-game" is an absolute... Mythic raids are the end-game.

The problem is the vast majority of people critiquing said difficulty are using it as an "end-game" because that's all they're capable of raiding, and that's their choice... Maybe these people should step out of their comfort zone and try something a little more difficult instead of bitching about how "easy heroics are".

[Greylan]

Well, this is what deluded people want to believe. Fact is, the term "end-game" is an absolute... Mythic raids are the end-game.

The problem is the vast majority of people critiquing said difficulty are using it as an "end-game" because that's all they're capable of raiding, and that's their choice... Maybe these people should step out of their comfort zone and try something a little more difficult instead of bitching about how "easy heroics are".

End game isn't an absolute -- it includes pretty much anything you do to improve your character after the levelling process is finished.

Plenty of heroic raiders would love to raid mythic but can't since blizz won't allow xrealm mythic. Give players the tools (other than paid xfers) and you'll find a lot more heroic raiders stepping it up to the next difficulty.

[Deleted]

I like how the comparison is made between:

a) Argus heroic and other heroic endbosses
b) Argus heroic and other heroic bosses in antorus

And yet the average MMOC mouthbreather is only able to come up with "mythic raiders are ofc overgearing it!!!!111 wait for mythic next id".
How retarded do you have to be?

[Spotnick]

Total number of guilds that have downed H Argus: 753

In other words, the people who are complaining are mythic raiders.

This thread is utterly ridiculous.

You realize the top mythic guilds usually DON'T kill the last boss while they are doing split runs and join together with mains to defeat the last boss, which is usually harder than the first 3-4 bosses of mythic, right?

This week they are doing splits runs including Argus.

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Non-mythic bosses are usually tuned for players with 15 ilvl below what the raid drops in that difficulty

First bosses of the raid are, not the later ones.

[RobertoCarlos]

enjoy the raid its gonna be around more than a year

[Kelathos]

I enjoyed Hellfire Citadel. It was a good difficulty to wait out the content drought.
As a Heroic Raider, that difficult is what matters to me.

[Deleted]

Blizzard has set heroic up to be endgame for the vast majority of raid groups. It's reasonable to expect some challenge.

No they havent. Endgame = mythic.

Dont make up stuff because you want to. We needed 5+ tries on KJ heroic in first id.

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I enjoyed Hellfire Citadel. It was a good difficulty to wait out the content drought.
As a Heroic Raider, that difficult is what matters to me.

HFC mythic difficulty was weird. 3 easy bosses, 1 difficult and 1 very difficult, followed by 3-4 pretty easy ones...

[Spotnick]

Well, this is what deluded people want to believe. Fact is, the term "end-game" is an absolute... Mythic raids are the end-game.

The problem is the vast majority of people critiquing said difficulty are using it as an "end-game" because that's all they're capable of raiding, and that's their choice... Maybe these people should step out of their comfort zone and try something a little more difficult instead of bitching about how "easy heroics are".

I'm quite confident to say I will have wiped more often in heroic HFC the first week than I did in the full duration of heroic Antorus.

And we couldn't kill Archimonde on the first week... and we did a lot of extra time to try to, while this week clear seems to take about 5 hours.

There is a limit, right now heroic feels like normal, and people don't even have their tier yet. Hopefully mythic will be better tuned.

[borisshayo]

I like how the comparison is made between:

a) Argus heroic and other heroic endbosses
b) Argus heroic and other heroic bosses in antorus

And yet the average MMOC mouthbreather is only able to come up with "mythic raiders are ofc overgearing it!!!!111 wait for mythic next id".
How retarded do you have to be?

Yep, exactly this. I remember the same kind of retards defending mythic Xavius after Exorsus downed it day 1. "Oh they're the best guild in the world, ofcourse it's easy for them. It'll be plenty challenging for the average mythic guild so stop whining." Ofcourse anyone with half a brain realized something was wrong if he can be killed in two hours when you compare it to previous final bosses on mythic. And when more people got to him everyone saw the fight for what it is and nobody defended it anymore. The same thing is gonna happen to Argus HC in a few weeks when the average heroic raider will see how truly garbage this fight actually is.

[Jastall]

Non-mythic bosses are usually tuned for players with 15 ilvl below what the raid drops in that difficulty

Source for that? Plus, I'm not sure how it applies to Legion, where your ilvl is grossly inflated by TF, artifacts and legendaries. Using your logic, Argus is tuned for 940 players, IE current Mythic raiders, and they're absolutely stomping him into the ground. Heroic Antorus raiders, with the aforementioned ilvl inflation mechanics, should easily be 945+ once they reach him. And at that ilvl, any raid worth its salt will already feel like it almost overgears the encounter. He will be a total joke once everyone is 950+ with beefed up trinkets, tier sets, artifacts and such. Archimonde and KJ, for example, never truly reached joke status, and Gul'dan only reached it after the 7.2 traits were released.

This discussion is moot anyway, because the bigger issue is that the previous bosses in the raid have shown that Blizzard are capable of tuning Heroic right. I feel the difficulty curve up to Aggramar was fine, maybe slightly too easy but nothing too dramatic. Then said curve ends in a severe downward spike as Argus is easier than the previous 4 bosses. That is anticlimactic and disappointing. Forgot comparing Argus to previous endbosses; compared to previous bosses in his own raid he's easy.

[Lens Hunter]

I love people who brag about how easy content is. Fuck off. Not everyone will have an easy time.

[SLSAMG]

I love people who brag about how easy content is. Fuck off. Not everyone will have an easy time.

Quite the intellectual you are. Then again I shouldn't be surprised considering your avatar. Any adult that enjoys watching R&M has more issues than one can possibly imagine.

Also, calm your tits...

[Onikaroshi]

You realize the top mythic guilds usually DON'T kill the last boss while they are doing split runs and join together with mains to defeat the last boss, which is usually harder than the first 3-4 bosses of mythic, right?

This week they are doing splits runs including Argus.

Argus is different then most, they're trying to maximize trinkets since the more people in the raid WITH the trinket the better it gets. They're going to want to try their best to leverage that uptime for the race.

[Sixy]

Every heroic boss in Legion has been a joke except Gul'dan and Kil'jaeden, and both of them were killed by every half decent guild within 50 pulls. Heroic servers no purpose anymore other than farming ap and wf/tf. Could be as easy as LFR for all i care.

You forgot Helya. Heroic Helya was harder for guilds then either Kil'jaeden or Gul'dan even after the nerfs. I knew a guild that was 5/7M EN and barely killed Heroic Helya before Nighthold.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Argus is different then most, they're trying to maximize trinkets since the more people in the raid WITH the trinket the better it gets. They're going to want to try their best to leverage that uptime for the race.

Maybe so, but it's not just that. Endbosses always drop great gear. This time the difficulty is not concerning enough to not bother with it, which is why the endboss is usually skipped. You'll wipe so much that it's not worth the extra time spent wiping.

I'm sure it'll be fine for once my heroic guild gets there, but if this is the case that's unfortunate. Argus Normal looked to me like it had the potential to be a great boss on Heroic, it'll be a shame if it's a pushover.

[Ozyorkbourne]

SNIP.

Gosh. I wonder why. Maybe it's because everyone bitched about KJ being too hard and Blizzard were forced to essentially apologise and promise to never make a boss that hard again. Of course it was easy. If it were too hard, the people who play 2 hours a month couldn't kill it.

Fortunately, mythic doesn't have the same last phase. Instead of tagging something on, they REPLACED part of the fight for mythic. I'm excited about that.

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Well, this is what deluded people want to believe. Fact is, the term "end-game" is an absolute... Mythic raids are the end-game.

The problem is the vast majority of people critiquing said difficulty are using it as an "end-game" because that's all they're capable of raiding, and that's their choice... Maybe these people should step out of their comfort zone and try something a little more difficult instead of bitching about how "easy heroics are".

I've seen people who can't do mythic 0 on their mains because they physically don't understand the game and click everything. Heroic dungeons are legit their endgame.

[Onikaroshi]

Maybe so, but it's not just that. Endbosses always drop great gear. This time the difficulty is not concerning enough to not bother with it, which is why the endboss is usually skipped. You'll wipe so much that it's not worth the extra time spent wiping.

I'm sure it'll be fine for once my heroic guild gets there, but if this is the case that's unfortunate. Argus Normal looked to me like it had the potential to be a great boss on Heroic, it'll be a shame if it's a pushover.

Well, that depends Archi had those trinkets but he was TOO difficult to split effectively, but for the most part, barring tier, end bosses of raids (not expansions) have had some shitty gear too, KJ had some really mediocre pieces outside of like... the melee trinket.

[Otrew]

i think the "problem" is avatar, KJ or even naga had abilities where a person could screwup all raid. Maiden too but you can loose 1/3 of the people in the first minute and still kill the boss.Argus dont have skill like that and a lot bad player could be easily carried for other people. I raid in just a heroic guild and we know is gonna takes us like 2 months to finish heroic as always just this time we are gonna wipe probabbly more in coven or high command than in the final boss the same ways we wipe more in botanist than guldan.