i'm really starting to worry

[AceofH]

Yeah but I still enjoy it, and one day i'll get non-stop PB procs and get world first or something

Oh don't get me wrong. Sin is my favorite spec too

[Heladys]

still feels awful when a entire class is bottom, i don't get why people always do the world race card either a class is not fun if you are doing shit dps because the devs can't balance for shit.

Someone's always on top. Someone's always on bottom. What matters is that you contribute to killing the bosses at the difficulty your raid chooses to run and your group has fun.

[AceofH]

Someone's always on top. Someone's always on bottom. What matters is that you contribute to killing the bosses at the difficulty your raid chooses to run and your group has fun.

Except there is no reason to bring a rogue. Our only job is dealing damage and right now we suck at it.

[ymirsson]

Except there is no reason to bring a rogue. Our only job is dealing damage and right now we suck at it.

Then play an alt until they fix your char. But i am quite sure that bitching on an unofficial forum won't make your problems go away. Also, hyperbole is bad. ALWAYS. It's literally the worst!

[cparle87]

this was expected.. rogues simming bottom dps but blizzard refuses to acknowledge it

Someone has to be on the bottom. It's kinda how rankings work. Trying to turn it into Blizzard having some evil plan or personal vendetta against the class is very silly.

[Twix]

Someone has to be on the bottom. It's kinda how rankings work. Trying to turn it into Blizzard having some evil plan or personal vendetta against the class is very silly.

what kind of argument is that? All three rogue specs are at the bottom.. ever heard of class balancing? Blizzard needs to address this issue.

[cparle87]

what kind of argument is that? All three rogue specs are at the bottom.. ever heard of class balancing? Blizzard needs to address this issue.

There's been cases of all of a class's dps specs being on the bottom before. And like someone earlier said there's only double digits in sub parses so we don't have the full picture yet.

[cparle87]

I dont think its evil, but sometimes, even when all of the evidence shows one thing, blizzard goes ahead and tries to justify what they do.

Evidence showing... that rogues are in a bad place compared to other classes? And that you're mad that they haven't been buffed yet? I just can't seem to wrap my head around this. Blizz doesn't need to "justify" anything, especially regarding class balance. "How dare you make my class the worst! Fix it now!" Sounds really immature to me.

[precious]

Evidence showing... that rogues are in a bad place compared to other classes? And that you're mad that they haven't been buffed yet? I just can't seem to wrap my head around this. Blizz doesn't need to "justify" anything, especially regarding class balance. "How dare you make my class the worst! Fix it now!" Sounds really immature to me.

And yet worked wonder with other classes.

Warriors cried nerfs reverted
Locks cried nerfs reverted
Feral druid cried for many months (tbh well deserved) tuned them just fine.

Lets face it. If tomorrow morning feint and cheat death was out of the game u wouldnt see rogues almost nowhere.

Problem is the amount of rogues guilds have, and its 100% blizzard fault when they tuned Tomb in a way that guilds went full retard of recruiting or making ppl reroll to make their lives easier, and as far i can remember never a class had all its specs at bottom either as pure or hybrid. And its gonna get worse the more gear rest classes get. The fact that we can do the 2m dps mark close to 960-965 ilvl while other can break it at 955 is beyond stupid.

[RobertoCarlos]

Everything pointed to rogues being pretty average this tier. Scaling problems. Average set bonuses except assassin but assassins scaling is the worst of all 3 so w/e.

Rogues werent terrible all expansion at least we had our moments even if it required spec swapping and ignoring outlaw after its swift trait nerfs.

We peaked in ToS with soak stacking. Long may we reign.

Rogues didnt get it the best, or the worst. But we've always been viable. Could have been worse, could have been a ret pally.

In hindsight you would have wanted to have been an arms/fury warrior, aff lock, frost mage and boomkin for legion. They were the OP specs majority of the game and sometimes shadow priest was in there too

[Zensunni]

Then re roll, please. I'm serious. I'm begging you. Please re-roll.

[Shelly]

still feels awful when a entire class is bottom, i don't get why people always do the world race card either a class is not fun if you are doing shit dps because the devs can't balance for shit.

Fairly certain if every Rogue spec is at the bottom then Blizz has intentionally balanced them to be there and it's balance as intended.

Everyone seems to feel like balance happens in this vacuum where everyone should be at the exact same DPS without regard to any utility.

The other thing that people don't really pay attention to is that Blizz balances around social engineering. They are completely willing to push up classes that they'd prefer to see doing better and let others fall behind slightly.

[Deleted]

Then re roll, please. I'm serious. I'm begging you. Please re-roll.

Complainers are not true rogues.
True rogues are trying to be better instead finding excuses with WLogs.

[Immunize]

Looking at overall Damage and even 75th percentiles will show you nothing about why to bring a rogue right now.

You want a rogue in progress on nearly every boss (except maybe Coven, but fuck that boss):
Garothi boss for the soaks and high burst damage on the cannons
War Council (using Shuriken-Combo to dominate the boss damage charts)
Portal Keeper for the easy debuff transportation from portal to portal aswell as really good burst damage to the mini Portal-Bosses
Eonar is a mix between Shuriken-Combo abuse on priority targets in add waves and high burst damage on the Sentinax add
Argus, Kingaroth and Aggramar again you just melt the prority targets in intermission phases

On Felhounds, Imonar and Varimathras you could argue about the need to bring a rogue but even there you are just as valuable for mechanics and OKish dps as on the other bosses, which is why rogues are still highly represented on the rosters for all guilds.

As progress in mythic should be the focus for classes to shine on, you should not worry right now as every non-idiotic raidleader will gladly take you in for mythic kills.

As for HC raiders that want to be top dps for every fight in an already easy raid in which other classes can just cheese and pad the dps meters better than rogues and for players that are worried about later stages in this tier when the other classes will just scale way better than rogue, yes...you will not have a good time.

If you are worried about the bad scaling and the months after progress is over, where your dps and utility will mater less than it does now, you should start to reach out to blizzard like the other classes did after they got nerfed (i.e. Warrior) so blizzard will maybe do something about that (or not, but you tried at least)

(90th percentile Boss Damage charts for Antorus HC and Mythic, so you can see we are not that shit as you think in doing damage that matters) :
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...s&difficulty=4

[jtstormrage]

Its not about the race for world first, it is about class balance.

Blizzard has left all three rogue specs in a bad place. It is not fun when you play your arse off and do everything perfectly and are 14th on the meters.

On the bright side, rogues still have good utility, and are excellent at surviving, soaking, and burst damage. There is a fair amount of that in Antorus.

[MyndZero]

You shouldn't sim a minority, being mythic, to get accurate measures of how well your class is doing. In mythic, classes are often brought for specific reasons, and hence why on one fight, people were choosing not to bring a single melee dps.

You should instead be simming based off heroic, which has an infinitely larger pool of players and you will get a better representation of how your class is doing if you're worried about DPS.

[Deleted]

Rogue is utter garbage in Antorus, everyone knows that

We are going to be benched and bottom of meters on every boss

[Immunize]

As I said. If your worries are for Heroic raids and your dps in those raids, you will have a bad time in the coming months as the raid will only get easier the more gear you acquire as raid group and other classes start to scale more than you as a rogue.

Right now Rogues (or Sub in particular) are in a good to OKish spot.

Of course it's not great to be a pure dps class and not dominate some fights all tier long, but for the current state and for current Heroic and Mythic fights we are needed as always (Mythic raiders are/will be not the minority as they were in ToS, seeing as many guilds will test the waters to start Mythic raiding as the Heroic raid is cleared pretty fast)

[Deleted]

Fairly certain if every Rogue spec is at the bottom then Blizz has intentionally balanced them to be there and it's balance as intended.

Everyone seems to feel like balance happens in this vacuum where everyone should be at the exact same DPS without regard to any utility.

The other thing that people don't really pay attention to is that Blizz balances around social engineering. They are completely willing to push up classes that they'd prefer to see doing better and let others fall behind slightly.

It's more or less that they haven't touched rogue. Rogue don't scale as well with gear as other classes. And I don't believe that they are trying to push other classes, they nerfed affliction lock but gave them a compensation for their nerf (not a huge buff, but still something which wasn't needed since they already were god tier).

- - - Updated - - -

Complainers are not true rogues.
True rogues are trying to be better instead finding excuses with WLogs.

I love rogue (except maybe outlaw because I'm just a combat rogue player and I miss KS) and I going to stick with it, but its still not fun that even when I'm seeing that other classes (in guild) are getting muuuch stringer with antorus gear and I'm getting just a slight DPS increase with the new gear.

[Deleted]

It's simple, a handful of the devs hate rogues, there's little hints of it all over the game. Quick exit our class hall and you end up in the 'wine' and cheese shop in dalaran directly in front of you is the <Wine Vendor>

Rogues are one of the most if not the most gear dependant classes, and low and behold. Lets set everyones ilvl for BG's.

Roll the bones is a !@#$ing insult, outlaw dps is garbage. The class was gutted and someone at Blizzard is subtely rubbing it in our faces.

Taken from us forums coz I agree