How come sexual assault accusations even without evidence lead to trouble?

[Deleted]

and thats a huge problem which needs to be addressed immediately, why are you standing against the people trying to fight for justice. You seem to agree with them that this is "unfortunate"

I'm not, I am saying just don't overexagerate it because that's just as harmful towards genuine people wanting to accuse

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as an example that came to my mind as an issue being important to progressives that would argue against the fact that we should not care about or protect people suffering from false accusations because of there being a low amount (?? data not clear) of them.

Which is weird because I never said we shouldn't protect people

[ItachiZaku]

All they have to do is cry racist and the media will shitsmear the restaurant gg.

She's thinking about it.

[spanishninja]

Well what is the % of falsely convicted rapists? Or even allegations. Even if it's 10% that still warrants unlikely to happen

If 1 in 10, or even 1 in 30 black men are definitively proven to be falsely convicted, the country would go NUTS crying racism.

Also, what are we at, around 20+ allegations now? Using the 2-3% statistic, it means that at around 30-50 accusations, there will likely be at least one falsely accused. What are you gonna tell this guy whose life was ruined?

[Deleted]

If 1 in 10, or even 1 in 30 black men are definitively proven to be falsely convicted, the country would go NUTS crying racism.

Also, what are we at, around 20+ allegations now? Using the 2-3% statistic, it means that at around 30-50 accusations, there will likely be at least one falsely accused. What are you gonna tell this guy whose life was ruined?

That he was unlucky and a victim to malicious intent. That said he can sue the accussor and would very likely win

[Slakerose]

I'm a boss, and no, it wouldn't lead to your firing, because if it would I could get sued to fucking hell and back. You know...I need grounds for summary termination.

So what would happen is that I would have someone from HR interview you, your accuser, your colleagues, review available evidence (like messages, testimonies, phone records) and based on that they would write a recommendation to Legal, who would review everything again, and then recommend available options like disciplinary measures, firing or a formal apology if the complaint is dismissed, that goes up to management, who jointly with HR and Legal takes final decision.

So no, that's not how it works.

If this is true, cause my boss, did so from accusations and I have never felt so degraded in my life. Hell Ill say tell the story that to me was opposite of where I thought I was perceived of this. I thought I was overheard talking about my weekend with a girl that we found out was trying to play us. But nope. Our job has a gym with an instructor that we can go to for 30 mins day 3 days. I was accused of staring and getting in someones personal space.

Im sorry but I was looking around because I haven't been here as long so I dont know all the exercises so I look at people who do. Personal space? What space, the one I choose every time in the gym near the water because I sweat more than you. If someone is hurting Ill say with real genuine concern "How are you feeling" or hey I know something that may help since I was nosey in a small gym and overheard it. And after every damn class I jet out of there. I do not linger because of how past events of the stories in that place. I may seem naive but as a vegan and on a spiritual path to know my true self, I do not want anyone who is not only not those but does not live in their heart instead of a mind that lives in an illusionary reality.

Hard to be authentic and caring. Hell I dont even like talking much anyway. But I will speak with respect when I do and always be of service. I got banned from the gym, rumors spread so fast that someones perception of me (upstairs where yes 95% of the women are) became so toxic, I was asked to part ways. This was last week. I didn't get angry, I forgave them, myself and took responsibility. I went on my way. The unexpected happen. The whole downstairs warehouse had a positive strong impact in a positive way for me because I leave that way and texts and apologies came.

Ill never forget what he said. I dont won't the women here to feel uncomfortable (well no shit me either. Its why I dont like talking to them because of past events in your company) and I am trying to empower women. Sure empower women but ever thought about the humans downstairs. You ever think about how creating separation does not create the happiness you say you want. No-one is unequal regardless of race gender etc.

And this shit is getting worse and this disease is spreading against a gender with no anti-bodies against it. I should have never tried to bridge the gap and played the game of staying a seemingly stupid person working downstairs, that handles his job well when you say I am. Jump and Ill ask how high. Lmao Ill never stop being the beater of my own drum.

[Ellarielle]

I kind of doubt companies where I am would, without having sufficient documentation/evidence. Otherwise the former employee will get to claim unemployment on the company's $$. This is also with me being in an "at-will" state.

[A dot Ham]

Only for the socially inept

We are on a video game forum... that probably applies to a great many people.

[Eggroll]

How come so many cases of sexual assault and harrassment never lead to trouble for those who commit them and the victims have to deal with the consequences for the rest of their lives? How about all the lives destroyed by a rape that was never prosecuted?

[sarahtasher]

What is odd is that the usual suspects conveniently forget about the political allegiance of people who actually spearheaded a cavalcade of false accusation of sexual abuse on children in the 80s

[sarahtasher]

For the record, the usual posters used like clockwork the usual argument, that is that female abusers are not prosecuted...

But, folks, who was causally dismissing the previous (fake) case of ''teacher have sex with male student'' ? Who was trying to look tough online by pretending ''it's rape kauze she is ugly'' ?

[Moon-Man]

No one is getting fired over baseless rumors.

My mate did. It happens more then you realize.

[gyrados]

so u mean like mattress girl?

[sarahtasher]

why would the number of examples matter? you could look up thousands of examples where men are having their lives ruined because of lies about sexual harassment

it happens
its a problem

laws need to be changed to protect men and punish women who falsely accuse men
if a woman tries to take action against a man without going through the legal system she should end up in jail for a few years

Yeah. Obviously. What is sexual assault on 99 women if one poor alpha stud get called mean names for boozing girls till they are out ?

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so u mean like mattress girl?

It's odd how for such a supposedly common occurrence, the usual suspects struggle to beyond ''Crosse players at Duke'' and ''Mattress girl'' (the second not being a clear cut case)and the good old ''I know someone...'' (1)

(1) Presumably Benjamim Uriah Lucius Leonard Stanton Howard...

FTR, that what happen in a country in which lawsuits means dollars signs.

[spanishninja]

That he was unlucky and a victim to malicious intent. That said he can sue the accussor and would very likely win

he can sue the accuser and win some meaningless sum of money (good luck getting that sum from a no-name actress btw). but what of his reputation and ability to find future work? nowadays, nobody bothers to follow up on the story after it happens.

[Shadee]

Many girls lie about it for money/attention.

[sarahtasher]

Many girls lie about it for money/attention.

Of course. The usual delusion of PUA. Either girls want their throbbing hot piece of meat, or they are lying. I mean, they have fedorahs and pick up lines, so why girls don't line up for their beds ?

(And of course ''many'' means ''my PUA guru told me so, so it must be true'')

[Deleted]

he can sue the accuser and win some meaningless sum of money (good luck getting that sum from a no-name actress btw). but what of his reputation and ability to find future work? nowadays, nobody bothers to follow up on the story after it happens.

The woman will have a criminal record -

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Many girls lie about it for money/attention.

By many you mean 10%

[Yvaelle]

I guess nothing will happen without evidence, but perhaps the reputation of that person might go down, which is still pretty shitty if you did not do anything.

I would say about equally often the reputation of the accuser goes down. If Bob seems like a decent guy and a good worker to everyone else, and Sharon suddenly accuses him of groping her - yea people might question their assessment of Bob, but they might also question Sharon's motivation.

Generally, because we have worked with our coworkers - we tend to form our opinions of them, and any such accusation as to their character is not only an affront to Bob, it is also an accusation that we all have failed to recognize the monster in our midst. Essentially all accusations of workplace harassment are difficult to actually deal with properly because it means that everyone who knew Bob has to publicly acquiesce that they didn't see it sooner - and convincing a crowd to collectively admit they were wrong about someone is actually pretty hard to do.

As a result, accusers are often silent because without evidence the risk of coming forward and instead of finding support - having the crowd turn against you - is actually fairly high: this is why lots of harassment has historically gone unreported. That's changing now with things like #MeToo, because it's drawing attention to just how widespread it actually is, in a way that doesn't require us to all apologize (by believing Sharon's accusation) for our poor judgment regarding Bob.

We're all willing to believe Sharon is a victim, until it means publicly stating that we were all wrong about Bob's character. #MeToo enables us to accept Sharon has been a victim, without asking us to admit our poor judgment.

[spanishninja]

The woman will have a criminal record -

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By many you mean 10%

I hope you are not trying to say that having your professional career ruined from a false sexual assault accusation is perfectly ok as long as the accuser ends up being punished for it. Cuz, no, it doesn't?

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I would say about equally often the reputation of the accuser goes down. If Bob seems like a decent guy and a good worker to everyone else, and Sharon suddenly accuses him of groping her - yea people might question their assessment of Bob, but they might also question Sharon's motivation.

Generally, because we have worked with our coworkers - we tend to form our opinions of them, and any such accusation as to their character is not only an affront to Bob, it is also an accusation that we all have failed to recognize the monster in our midst. Essentially all accusations of workplace harassment are difficult to actually deal with properly because it means that everyone who knew Bob has to publicly acquiesce that they didn't see it sooner - and convincing a crowd to collectively admit they were wrong about someone is actually pretty hard to do.

As a result, accusers are often silent because without evidence the risk of coming forward and instead of finding support - having the crowd turn against you - is actually fairly high: this is why lots of harassment has historically gone unreported. That's changing now with things like #MeToo, because it's drawing attention to just how widespread it actually is, in a way that doesn't require us to all apologize (by believing Sharon's accusation) for our poor judgment regarding Bob.

We're all willing to believe Sharon is a victim, until it means publicly stating that we were all wrong about Bob's character. #MeToo enables us to accept Sharon has been a victim, without asking us to admit our poor judgment.

If I live my life not doing wrong things like sexually harassing colleagues, it's not good enough that my character MIGHT or MIGHT NOT be questioned. If I didn't do anything wrong, my character should not be questioned at all. FULL STOP. If the only reason people would even doubt Bob's character is completely due to Sharon's dishonest claim, then Bob has a pretty fucking good reason to be pissed off about it.

[Deleted]

You just proved my point

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2-3% = unlikely

You miserunderstood, the 2-3% is the amount of allegations PROVED to be false, meaning that the court has material evidence that the allegation has been engineered to harm.

The amount of unfoundedreported allegation of sexual assault (meaning without enough material evidence to prosecute / to convict) is 40.6%.
(Bureau of justice statistics : https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fjs14st.pdf

There is a difference betwen "proved to be false" and "cannot be proved to be true". False allegators exploit the sympathy that public express from victims. Activists use the misunderstanding of the public of the burden of proof to inflate numbers and claim that rape is rampant, and too often ignored while the reality is that the justice system is set up to handle those crimes just as (if not more) seriously as any other serious crime, the allegators just fall short when presenting evidence that consent was not given / the event actually even happened.

The result is that allegation of rape has now been weaponized because the public, companies and communities will engage the consequences of the conviction for simple allegations.