Regarding Midnight and Last Titan

[Al Gorefiend]

I love how you CONSTANTLY complain about Alliance favortisim, and then when blizz wants to revisit horde zones, demand they do not.

He isn't a Horde fan. He wants a genshin impact looking 3rd faction led by blood elves

[Varodoc]

Blizzard has finally understood that Generic Asspulled Island #22 can't replace the magic of the original. That is why 2/3 of the Worldsoul saga will take place in revamped zones. This is the formula from now on. Enough with the Aspulled islands that don't feel like Warcraft. MORE expansions set in the revamped old world. It only took about, let Me check, over 12 years to understand this.

As for the zones themselves...

Midnight

Launch zones:

1) Ghostlands

2) Eversong Woods

3) Kingdom of Zul Aman

4) Silvermoon (City proper + outskirts, like Suramar and Zuldazar, Endgame zone like Suramar, location of the First raid tier like Suramar)

Patch zones:

1) Isle of Quel'Danas (Mid tier, Sunwell Plateau 2.0)

2) Remnants of K'aresh (Final tier, Dimensius the All-Devouring final boss, return and resolution of the Ethereal conflict)

The Last Titan

Launch zones:

1) Borean Tundra + Dragonblight (merge them into one zone since they are very similar aesthetically)

2) Howling Fjord + Grizzly Hills (merge them into one zone since they are very similar aesthetically)

3) Zul'drak

4) Icecrown + Crystalsong Forest (CF can easily be just a subzone in another zone; Endgame zone like in Wrath, First tier revolving Icecrown 2.0 OR Iridrikon, since his lair is somewhere in Northrend)

Patch zones:

1) Sholazar Basin (this works well as a patch zone because it's fairly secluded and isolated from the rest of the continent, giving it a feeling of mystery and secrecy that works well for a patch setting, the Mid tier could be an Azjol-Nerub raid with the Nerubians invading the region for whatever reason)

2) Storm Peaks (Final tier Ulduar and culmination of the Titan secrets)

Both expansion settings will be instanced, as per usual.

[Enrif]

1) Sholazar Basin (this works well as a patch zone because it's fairly secluded and isolated from the rest of the continent, giving it a feeling of mystery and secrecy that works well for a patch setting, the Mid tier could be an Azjol-Nerub raid with the Nerubians invading the region for whatever reason)

2) Storm Peaks (Final tier Ulduar and culmination of the Titan secrets)

Both expansion settings will be instanced, as per usual.

jeez, a bunch of terribel ideas, but this is the worst. Both zones are integral parts of the northrend continent, you can't just cut them out to be delivered in a patch

At best Ulduar could be a patch zone and a underground zone like Azjol'Nerub would make for a good patch zone. Not a zone that is already part of the continent

[Varodoc]

jeez, a bunch of terribel ideas, but this is the worst. Both zones are integral parts of the northrend continent, you can't just cut them out to be delivered in a patch

At best Ulduar could be a patch zone and a underground zone like Azjol'Nerub would make for a good patch zone. Not a zone that is already part of the continent

My ideas are objectively good as they are in line with the pedigree of previous expansion storylines.

Literally every single idea i have presented is logical, coherent with the storyline, and in line with Blizzard's MO.

Both zones are integral parts of the northrend continent, you can't just cut them out to be delivered in a patch

Give one good reason why they can't do that.

[Enrif]

My ideas are objectively good as they are in line with the pedigree of previous expansion storylines.

Literally every single idea i have presented is logical, coherent with the storyline, and in line with Blizzard's MO.

Oh god, not another pedigree fanatic... shall i get the dog food?

But for this. Silvermoon not being the expansion capital for Midnight would be a huge insult for a lot of players. Especially those who wanted Silvermoon to be updated and brought into the rest of the world since TBC. Isle of Quel'danas can easily take the role of Suramar 2.0 instead.

Give one good reason why they can't do that.

Sure, they could repeat Tanaan Jungle. But you would have two massive zones being empty, both of wich flank icecrown, so there wouldn't be a great way to go there, just long empty flights. It is more likely that they will gives us the whole continental zones in the launch, with the patch taking place underground again. One of the headlines for TLL is after all, what are all these machines doing that got placed into azeroth, and the culmination of the world soul saga would make sense to go underground again. It is also the question were the expansion hub will be for TLL. I doubt they will use Dalaran, again. And i doubt they will use faction splitting hubs. Which leaves 4 areas: Ulduar itself, Icecrown Citadel, Argent Tournament Grounds, or Wyrmrest Temple.

[Varodoc]

But for this. Silvermoon not being the expansion capital for Midnight would be a huge insult for a lot of players.

This exists only in your head.

I have yet to come across a player who has threatened to quit if Silvermoon isn't the player capital.

Sure, they could repeat Tanaan Jungle

And also Vanilla, the very foundation of the game, where you had zones like M. Hyjal being closed-off, and no one ever complained. If anything, people loved the mystery and were hyped when Cataclysm finally opened-up those previously-inaccessible zones (I was certainly hyped to see what was beyond the massive gate in Tanaris).

[MrLachyG]

They said that it would be the culmination of the past 20 years of WoW and set the stage for the next 20 years. So it won't be ending (unless you believe the theories that it'll lead into WoW 2 or some other Warcraft game, but that sounds like a huge stretch to me), but they claim that it'll be a massive climax.

It sounds kind of like what FFXIV did with Endwalker- it was a big finale that resolved the ongoing story, but they're continuing to tell new stories in the setting.

would be cool if they made a Warcraft 4 RTS which then led into "WoW 2" - they could very well make it with an updated engine, and simply have characters move over from WoW 1. They probably won't, and I doubt my own idea but it would be cool if they did - but only if we kept all our stuff

[Enrif]

This exists only in your head.

I have yet to come across a player who has threatened to quit if Silvermoon isn't the player capital.

Seems you forgot the outcry of Karabor/Bladespire Citadel not becoming capitals in WoD. This was extremely negatively received by the community.

And also Vanilla, the very foundation of the game, where you had zones like M. Hyjal being closed-off, and no one ever complained. If anything, people loved the mystery and were hyped when Cataclysm finally opened-up those previously-inaccessible zones (I was certainly hyped to see what was beyond the massive gate in Tanaris).

You go 18 years back instead of any recent examples? Even my example with Tanaan is nearly 9 years old. Since then, Blizzard never did this again. It was always a isle somewhere. Zaralek being underground and Amirdrassil being another plane is the closest to that.

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would be cool if they made a Warcraft 4 RTS which then led into "WoW 2" - they could very well make it with an updated engine, and simply have characters move over from WoW 1. They probably won't, and I doubt my own idea but it would be cool if they did - but only if we kept all our stuff

I hear a lot of people want a WC4. But honestly, i don't think Blizzard would be able to make a WC4 that would make people happy (just look at the disaster that was WC3 Reforged), and a WC4 as a RTS game might not have a great market appeal anymore, compared to the 90s. But that's just my opinion

[Varodoc]

Seems you forgot the outcry of Karabor/Bladespire Citadel not becoming capitals in WoD. This was extremely negatively received by the community.

Is this a joke? Karabor/Bladespire Citadel were presented as the capitals, that is why there was an outcry. Because they were planned to be capitals but this was cut mid-development.

They have never said that Silvermoon will be the capital of Midnight.

You go 18 years back instead of any recent examples?

I go back to the very foundations of the game, that every true fan of WoW should look back to fondly and with love.

You still haven't found any valid reason as to why a patch zone must be a disconnected landmark.

You also still haven't explained how My ideas are "terrible" at all.

[FelPlague]

My ideas are objectively good

New sig dropped bois.

[Enrif]

Is this a joke? Karabor/Bladespire Citadel were presented as the capitals, that is why there was an outcry. Because they were planned to be capitals but this was cut mid-development.

They have never said that Silvermoon will be the capital of Midnight.

Well then, go ahead, tell us what the expansion hub would be, if not Silvermoon, the obvious choice. I'm sure you can come up with a good idea.

I go back to the very foundations of the game, that every true fan of WoW should look back to fondly and with love.

You still haven't found any valid reason as to why a patch zone must be a disconnected landmark.

You also still haven't explained how My ideas are "terrible" at all.

I was there when WoW was in developement, i was there when WC3 dropped. Don't come with this bullshit excuse of "look back fondly with love". Only an uncritical mind that wants to live in the past would come up with such stupid comments. As Garrosh once said: Times change. Get a grip on yourself.

And i never said a patch zone must be a disconnected zones. I said, it would be stupid to keep a big empty hole, were before there was something. We had examples of patch content in etablished areas. DF alone had 2, Zaralek, which was connected to most zones, and Amirdrassil, which after the raid was put next to the Ohn'ahran plains. In SL we got Korthia added to the Maw, WoD had Tanaan, Pandaria changed the Vale of Eternal Blossom, Cata added the Molten Front to Hyjal.

but you know what they had all in common? They were not empty zones. You can have patch content in Sholazar and Stormpeak, could even make sense due to the Titan stuff going on there. But they would not be patch zones that will be added later, they just get more content, like dream surged and time rifts or fyrakk assaults.

[MrLachyG]

Seems you forgot the outcry of Karabor/Bladespire Citadel not becoming capitals in WoD. This was extremely negatively received by the community.



You go 18 years back instead of any recent examples? Even my example with Tanaan is nearly 9 years old. Since then, Blizzard never did this again. It was always a isle somewhere. Zaralek being underground and Amirdrassil being another plane is the closest to that.

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I hear a lot of people want a WC4. But honestly, i don't think Blizzard would be able to make a WC4 that would make people happy (just look at the disaster that was WC3 Reforged), and a WC4 as a RTS game might not have a great market appeal anymore, compared to the 90s. But that's just my opinion

To be fair, they didn’t make Warcraft 3 Reforged; wasn’t it outsourced? Also pretty sure no matter what they do it will piss people off. They could deliver the absolute perfect expansion and people would still give it shit and call it bad

[Enrif]

To be fair, they didn’t make Warcraft 3 Reforged; wasn’t it outsourced? Also pretty sure no matter what they do it will piss people off. They could deliver the absolute perfect expansion and people would still give it shit and call it bad

It was not made directly by the blizzard team, but it was still published by blizzard, so in the end they could have pulled the plug instead of releasing what they had.
yeah, that's probably true.
But honestly, i got into thinking what kind of game could tell the story of Warcraft, that is not the MMO, and could be more bite sized, just as Tekken 8 came out, and i think, the warcraft setting with its iconic hero's, would make a great background for a fighting game that can actually explain the story in a concise way.

[Varodoc]

New sig dropped bois.

My idea is good because it is the most realistic.

I actually have no horse in this race; if Silvermoon is the player hub (very unlikely), good for Me, that means the Alliance will be allowed back into Silvermoon (since Blizzard hasn't done split hub since 2017).

But it's far more likely that Silvermoon will literally be Suramar 2.0. Player reception to Suramar and the whole fantasy of going undercover in a hostile city was very well-received.

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Well then, go ahead, tell us what the expansion hub would be, if not Silvermoon, the obvious choice. I'm sure you can come up with a good idea.



I was there when WoW was in developement, i was there when WC3 dropped. Don't come with this bullshit excuse of "look back fondly with love". Only an uncritical mind that wants to live in the past would come up with such stupid comments. As Garrosh once said: Times change. Get a grip on yourself.

And i never said a patch zone must be a disconnected zones. I said, it would be stupid to keep a big empty hole, were before there was something. We had examples of patch content in etablished areas. DF alone had 2, Zaralek, which was connected to most zones, and Amirdrassil, which after the raid was put next to the Ohn'ahran plains. In SL we got Korthia added to the Maw, WoD had Tanaan, Pandaria changed the Vale of Eternal Blossom, Cata added the Molten Front to Hyjal.

but you know what they had all in common? They were not empty zones. You can have patch content in Sholazar and Stormpeak, could even make sense due to the Titan stuff going on there. But they would not be patch zones that will be added later, they just get more content, like dream surged and time rifts or fyrakk assaults.

THE ONLY FACT is that the expansion is in Northrend.

NORTHREND.

So, every zone will have to be in Northrend or be connected to Northrend.

My proposition takes account of every known zone in Northrend. That is why it is good.

[Enrif]

THE ONLY FACT is that the expansion is in Northrend.

NORTHREND.

So, every zone will have to be in Northrend or be connected to Northrend.

My proposition takes account of every known zone in Northrend. That is why it is good.

So? Just because it's northrend doesn't mean it can not add new stuff for patch zones. We know from the DK Classhall mount quest and one of the dailies at the argent crusade tournament grounds that there are at least a few small isles if not more in the foggy cold north of northrend. We know that there is a vast underground network under northrend housing the nerubian kingdom of azjol'nerub. We know that Ulduar has a really big part that we do not actually explore, when we travel via train from the centre area to Mimirons area.

And given that with DF and TWW we get a lot of underground content and tech, it can reasonably be assumed that blizzard will use this tech in northrend aswell, the one area in the world, where we know for sure, there is a lot to discover below the ground.

That is how to make an educated guess. An even then, i will only call this a guess, and not be so cocksure as you claim with your "My ideas are objectively good".

Get help with your attitude.

Besides, you still didn't told us what the Expansion Hub would be for Midnight, if not Silvermoon.

[Varodoc]

So? Just because it's northrend doesn't mean it can not add new stuff for patch zones. We know from the DK Classhall mount quest and one of the dailies at the argent crusade tournament grounds that there are at least a few small isles if not more in the foggy cold north of northrend. We know that there is a vast underground network under northrend housing the nerubian kingdom of azjol'nerub. We know that Ulduar has a really big part that we do not actually explore, when we travel via train from the centre area to Mimirons area.

And given that with DF and TWW we get a lot of underground content and tech, it can reasonably be assumed that blizzard will use this tech in northrend aswell, the one area in the world, where we know for sure, there is a lot to discover below the ground.

That is how to make an educated guess. An even then, i will only call this a guess, and not be so cocksure as you claim with your "My ideas are objectively good".

Get help with your attitude.

Besides, you still didn't told us what the Expansion Hub would be for Midnight, if not Silvermoon.

They set the expansion in Northrend because they realized random asspulled island #20 isn't cutting it anymore for the community. That is why they are going back to the beloved OG places for 2/3 of the Worldsoul saga.

Clearly, they are not going to asspull random islands near Northrend haha.

They are obviously not going to make another underground Nerubian expansion either, especially not so close to the last one. Very silly.

And given that with DF and TWW we get a lot of underground content and tech, it can reasonably be assumed that blizzard will use this tech in northrend aswell, the one area in the world, where we know for sure, there is a lot to discover below the ground.

That tech is not linked to underground content and was not created by DF either. It was already used in SL to travel to and from Oribos, and will return in Midnight to travel to Quel'Thalas.

Besides, you still didn't told us what the Expansion Hub would be for Midnight, if not Silvermoon.

The Vindicaar or the Revamped Exodar, since they stated that we will ally with the Army of the Light to defeat the darkness.

Those few who actually listened to Metzen's words, they know that it is equally a Light-expansion as it is an Elven-expansion.

[Enrif]

The Vindicaar or the Revamped Exodar, since they stated that we will ally with the Army of the Light to defeat the darkness.

Those few who actually listened to Metzen's words, they know that it is equally a Light-expansion as it is an Elven-expansion.

Vindicaar as a hub would be ridiculously small, it was fine as a patch hub, but not an expansion hub. Exodar, now that could work, except, it can't. Remember the Vindicaar? The Exodar is so badly damaged it can not be repaired. All the remaining good stuff was used to make the Vindicaar. So the Exodar will be left where it is.

So, any other "objectivly good ideas"?

[Golden Yak]

I'd be pretty happy with Varodoc's outlines in fact. Certainly Midnight's, it's how I envision pretty much every zone layout up to K'aresh. I figured it would be the Void itself, but having K'aresh would be even better since you can loop the ethereals into things. Enter the Void in some capacity for a final raid perhaps.

I don't know about a draenei ship for the hub though - I do expect the Army of the Light to show up, but moreso in a later patch, kinda coming in as reinforcements. The Void invades hard and corrupts the Sunwell (starting to feel a bit like Legion), so Sunwell Isle is like Midnight's Broken Shore. The Light showing up then as part of a major counterattack makes sense to me.

As a hub... if they do hopefully rebuild all Quel'thalas from scratch it could be anywhere, if we enter from the south then somewhere in Ghostlands maybe. Windrunner Spire is bound to be someplace important, with Alleria and possibly the other Windrunner sisters being involved. I also wouldn't be surprised if we do wind up getting at least some part of Silvermoon, with the rest of the city and much of its ruins acting as the rest of the zone. Something we can work our way towards either right away or later on like Thal'drazus.

But if it is something like Windrunner Spire that might be more appropriate. This should be a major campaign to retake an invaded kingdom, we don't need some sprawling city that's full of toy shops and fruit carts. It can be a fortified encampment - all the amneities can be there for professions and what not, with more of a martial flavor as opposed to casual civilization.

And for Last Titan, I hope we do get some underground zones, Azjol-Nerub at least. Get down there to that Spider Kingdom. Tying it into a patch with Sholazar or whatever would be fine. Just gimme. I don't care that we got a spider kingdom in TWW, give me another one, the real one.

[Varodoc]

Vindicaar as a hub would be ridiculously small, it was fine as a patch hub, but not an expansion hub. Exodar, now that could work, except, it can't. Remember the Vindicaar? The Exodar is so badly damaged it can not be repaired. All the remaining good stuff was used to make the Vindicaar. So the Exodar will be left where it is.

So, any other "objectivly good ideas"?

Wrong. The Army of the Light still has the Aurobos, Lothraxion's spaceship:

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Aurobos


Considering how it's been many years since Kael'thas died, it's very likely that Tempest Keep has also been reclaimed by the Naaru.

Anyway, since you think you could so much better, why don't you tell us what TLT will look like?

Do keep in mind that Blizzard's new formula is 4 zones at launch, and that the expansion takes place in Northrend, so no Avaloren/Lordaeron/Whatever isn't Northrend... (as the expansion takes place in Northrend; Metzen's words)

And for Last Titan, I hope we do get some underground zones, Azjol-Nerub at least. Get down there to that Spider Kingdom. Tying it into a patch with Sholazar or whatever would be fine. Just gimme. I don't care that we got a spider kingdom in TWW, give me another one, the real one.

Surely Sholazar Basin deserves special treatment, considering how it was hand-crafted by the Titan Keepers?

You would expect the Titan expansion to place special focus on the Titan hand-crafted zone, which is why I foresee that Sholazar Basin will be the focus of a patch.

This is why I place Sholazar Basin in its own tier:

“Sholazar Basin is a self-contained environment where the world-shaping titans allowed their creations to roam and flourish. Shielded from the Scourge by a powerful magical barrier, the basin has remained a haven from the undead. It is viewed by many of Northrend's embattled races as a kind of promised land.”

— The Art of World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King, pg. 112

This right here, this is patch content. I predict that Sholazar Basin will be shielded during the launch of TLT and it will be opened in a patch, with the magical barrier slowly being lifted off as the storyline progresses.

[Golden Yak]

Surely Sholazar Basin deserves special treatment, considering how it was hand-crafted by the Titan Keepers?

You would expect the Titan expansion to place special focus on the Titan hand-crafted zone, which is why I foresee that Sholazar Basin will be the focus of a patch.

This is why I place Sholazar Basin in its own tier:

This right here, this is patch content. I predict that Sholazar Basin will be shielded during the launch of TLT and it will be opened in a patch, with the magical barrier slowly being lifted off as the storyline progresses.

I could definitely see it having some special Titan-related purpose, sure. The shield going up with the arrival of the Titans would be a plausible way to close it off at the start of content, that's a good idea. Same with Storm Peaks/Ulduar really, the Pantheon locking everything down in anticipation of their arrival.

Maybe the basin could be what connects to Azjol-Nerub, the nerubians coming up under the shield, literally undermining things. Hey, if we become friends with the spiders after TWW, maybe they're how we get into the basin, and we bring down the shield from within. Spider friends helping us thwart the nasty Titans, yeah!

I have a harder time imagining what Zul'Drak or Icecrown could involve, but I do keep coming back to wanting Yogg-Saron to somehow return, an Old God revival that succeeds, and Icecrown is lousy with saronite construction. I dream of his essence somehow taking root in them, turning them into a vessel for him to be reborn.

They never did anything with Malykriss, the pure saronite necropolis. This could be the time.