Are we at the point that removing secondary stats from gear would make sense?

[manypillars]

They're not going to do it. The large loot tables, randomized stats, and +forges are by design. According to them it is for the purpose of 'making loot more exciting' and to stretch out the length of time it takes to gear up. Why in the world are they going to take away secondary stats when they're a tool they use to stretch out content by making it take longer for you to get what you want?

[Xargoth6634]

Defintely don't see this happening. 'Dumbing' down of stats would remove the fun of min-maxing.

Nothing fun about this from my perspective, although a system without any kind of secondary stats would seem kind of bland.

[endersblade]

I think they just need to make secondary stats (and tertiary for that matter) craftable. gear drops with the main stats only - HP, INT/STR/AGI/SPI (which I guess isn't a main stat anymore?), and then you can use a crafter to add up to two secondaries and one tertiary (at a much higher cost) to a piece of gear.

[effs]

Nothing fun about this from my perspective, although a system without any kind of secondary stats would seem kind of bland.

Let's say for example, before the days of template PvP. For me, stacking a specific stat was a lot of fun (enhance mastery). I wanted to see how high I could hit with Frost Shock.

[Ehuehuecopter]

Crit Haste Mastery =/= Hit Expertise

Don't mix good stats with garbage

[Clash the DK]

Gear doesn't need secondary stats. Using a simple "Power" stat instead of primary stats would even work fine for gear.

But...the game does need the customization and choice of Haste vs Crit. That choice would need to be supplemented somewhere else within another system. Whether it be through gems, enchants, talents or a completely new system altogether.

[Kokolums]

Blizzard didnt like reforging because everyone would just have an addon tell them that items and stats to reforge, soon it will be the same with ingame simc addons telling you what item is better. Secondary stats also sucks hard when the gears secondary stats in raids for example tos dont match at all what you actually need for your specc

Thats the point of game design though. New systems are designed to have a shelf life. You create a system like reforging, and as soon as some programmer writes an addon to do the calculations for you and that addon proliferates, you scrap the system and do something else.

- - - Updated - - -

Gear doesn't need secondary stats. Using a simple "Power" stat instead of primary stats would even work fine for gear.

But...the game does need the customization and choice of Haste vs Crit. That choice would need to be supplemented somewhere else within another system. Whether it be through gems, enchants, talents or a completely new system altogether.

No theyll never make a simple "power" stat to replace other stats because their goal is to make it too complex to have an addon tell you what an upgrade is.

[Sencha]

No.

/10stupidthread

[Deleted]

I would write a long rebuttal to you but I argued with enough bad tanks about avoidance vs effective health and hit strings back in Wrath. Just because it worked for you in a casual 10 man guild doesn't mean it was the best option.

I can't really be bothered arguing either but I do take exception to your "bad tank" accusation. I geared for maximum effectiveness for the content I was doing. Unfortunately I no longer have a copy of the spreadsheet by Arielle on http://www.theincbear.com/ that I used back then with my own values plugged in, but I can assure you that it showed effective health values for agility and stamina that were similar enough for agility to be a winner overall. I was not doing 25hc Icecrown. I did have relatively low health compared to some bears, but more than enough for the content I was doing. I looked through some old screenshots and saw myself unbuffed in Dalaran in June 2010 with 42k health. I can remember a tank we pugged for ICC25 dying in a single gcd pulling the first trash pack in the raid. They barely scratched me. He was a stam stacker with crap gear who had 50% more health than me.

[Skul]

The gear is already super bland and the stat page a joke. I would like to see MORE stats and the return of +hit, +expertise, +spell hit, +Spell pen, +armor pen, etc.

People argue the above are "bad stats" but the truth is, they were stats that MATTERED. They were stats that had very real impact on your character. Was it a noob trap? Yes it was, but that can be fixed with education and a more truthful stat page that showed people "You will miss 15% of the time" or whatever.

I want REAL stats back. Stats that allow you to balance and create real gear sets. Gear sets are now reduced to Set bonus + trinket + 2 legends + best relic traits and that is it.

[Deathquoi]

I can't really be bothered arguing either but I do take exception to your "bad tank" accusation. I geared for maximum effectiveness for the content I was doing. Unfortunately I no longer have a copy of the spreadsheet by Arielle on http://www.theincbear.com/ that I used back then with my own values plugged in, but I can assure you that it showed effective health values for agility and stamina that were similar enough for agility to be a winner overall. I was not doing 25hc Icecrown. I did have relatively low health compared to some bears, but more than enough for the content I was doing. I looked through some old screenshots and saw myself unbuffed in Dalaran in June 2010 with 42k health. I can remember a tank we pugged for ICC25 dying in a single gcd pulling the first trash pack in the raid. They barely scratched me. He was a stam stacker with crap gear who had 50% more health than me.

I mean I'm not going to tell you you were dumb because you cleared content just fine, I just take exception to the idea that stam stackers were wrong.

[Deleted]

Wish we could be allowed to change at least one stat on an item to a pref stat.. for m+15 i have had 2x 930 rings with insane vers (worse stat for BM).. So i am using 910 rings instead..

Now i think about it Vers seems pretty terrible for my alts also.. maybe they zhould get rid of it

[Deleted]

I just take exception to the idea that stam stackers were wrong.

I never said that. I said people who stacked stam without understanding what it did for them were morons. It was a perfectly good tactic in some circumstances.

If you want to understand my tanking perspective with a different game, when Diablo 3 first came out I was able to solo tank Diablo on Monster Power 20 indefinitelty with under 20k hp on my monk. Most people playing at that level had about 150k hp and would die after about 20 seconds. I once stood and fought him for about 45 minutes before suiciding because it would have taken me about 3 days to kill him. I do understand effective health, and also the impact that the ratio of effective to actual health had in the game in the past. Regrettably, that is no longer a concern; healers no longer go oom.

[Deleted]

Wish we could be allowed to change at least one stat on an item to a pref stat.. for m+15 i have had 2x 930 rings with insane vers (worse stat for BM).. So i am using 910 rings instead..

Now i think about it Vers seems pretty terrible for my alts also.. maybe they zhould get rid of it

I'm just taking you as an example, but there's a boatload of people that don't understand that having a lot of not-perfect-stat might actually be better than having less of perfect-stat. A 20 ilvl difference is a LOT of stat to lose, and I don't see most classes having weights as silly as shadowpriest (where haste is about twice as good as int, with versatility even slightly above int at some points). If you're equipping a 890 ring over a 925, you're almost certainly doing something wrong.

[Thimagryn]

If you want the game to be like that, you might as well play Guild Wars 2.

[haxartus]

Primary stats are already irrelevant. Any piece of gear with the same ilvl has the exact same primary stats, so you can completely ignore the primary stats. If you remove the secondary stats, the only relevant number on the gear will be the ilvl, which is way too simplified even for Blizzard.

[Deleted]

Oh god, please no. Was already stupid to remove hit, removing more secondary stats, if not all - would make the gameplay bland. It would be dull, your idea would make the system dull.

This. This is one of the major issues of WoW atm: oversimplifying everything, dumbing the game down in what looks like an attempt to please people whose IQ is below 50.