[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Katchii]

Oddly, having a method to AFK level is completely irrelevent.

[SNIP]

I completely disagree, because by extension this means you are able to simply walk everywhere, input no command or other control of your character and still progress through the game. Granted, it takes some thinking and understanding of mechanics and stuff to be able to put together a fully functional AFK gambit set-up, but once you do literally all you're doing is moving your character around and clicking/opening boxes. It takes the game play out of the game, which is completely unacceptable to me.

Everything else you said is irrelevant to me, because it's all in the background stuff. Stats and gear may be more important than levels but you're not doing anything with them except walking around and watching the game play itself for you. Watching a game play itself is not good gameplay. If the game play isn't fun or compelling, I couldn't care less about how interesting or well fleshed out all the background interactions and stuff are because it doesn't change how bad/ unrewarding the game play is.

[StrawberryZebra]

I completely disagree, because by extension this means you are able to simply walk everywhere, input no command or other control of your character and still progress through the game. Granted, it takes some thinking and understanding of mechanics and stuff to be able to put together a fully functional AFK gambit set-up, but once you do literally all you're doing is moving your character around and clicking/opening boxes. It takes the game play out of the game, which is completely unacceptable to me.

Until you run into a new zone. Or a boss. Or undead. Or a Flan. Or Flying enemies. There are lots of situations where you get much better results by moving away from auto piloting.

Like the Flan - As you'd expect it's tough to kill with attacks, but very vulnrable to specific magical elements. You either need to manually take control, or change your AI to deal with them. Alternatively you can switch your weapon types, Blunt weapons are checked against Magical Defences, not physical ones, so you can get some excelent results there too. Either way, it requires a reaction from the player when you encounter them.

It goes back to what I said earlier though, the game wasn't difficult enough at base level to force you to have to switch up your tactics away from just brute forcing your way through.

[Katchii]

Until you run into a new zone. Or a boss. Or undead. Or a Flan. Or Flying enemies. There are lots of situations where you get much better results by moving away from auto piloting.

Like the Flan - As you'd expect it's tough to kill with attacks, but very vulnrable to specific magical elements. You either need to manually take control, or change your AI to deal with them. Alternatively you can switch your weapon types, Blunt weapons are checked against Magical Defences, not physical ones, so you can get some excelent results there too. Either way, it requires a reaction from the player when you encounter them.

It goes back to what I said earlier though, the game wasn't difficult enough at base level to force you to have to switch up your tactics away from just brute forcing your way through.

You're right, but as you kind of inferred, doing that is just more efficient. It's still possible to have a pretty standard "brute force" gambit set-up and defeat your enemies. It always just felt very passive to me, even if the combat still had decisions you could make

Ironically, I had forgotten I picked this game up a couple of months ago on a great deal (~$10) because I'm still interested in seeing the story, as mediocre as I remember it to be, because I just love Final Fantasy and it's always irked me that I never finished this game back on PS2.

Back OT for FFXIV. I finally finished getting my Black Mage to 70, and while I do love the big numbers, the spell visuals and get big satisfaction in seeing enemies just melt .....this game is terrible for turret casters, especially one with such a tight rotation as Black Mage where movement at the wrong time can completely fuck up your DPS. I'll likely only ever touch this class when the level cap gets raised, because SMN and RDM are just as good DPS wise (if not better) and aren't so completely screwed on rotations due to having to take two steps to avoid AoE that EVERYTHING uses.

I also got Samurai to 70 and really like the class, and holy crap does it get even better once you get to 62 because of the Kenkai generation. It's just a very satisfying class to play. I'm working on Monk next to get rid of the shared gear between SAM and MNK to help free up some more inventory space. I always forget how much fun I have playing Monk because of the constant movement...but then remember how frustrating it is to play in dungeons because a lot of tanks just.won't.stand.still =/

[StrawberryZebra]

You're right, but as you kind of inferred, doing that is just more efficient. It's still possible to have a pretty standard "brute force" gambit set-up and defeat your enemies. It always just felt very passive to me, even if the combat still had decisions you could make

It's orders of magnitude more efficient. Like 12 hours to kill Yiazmat with simple brute force compared to 30-45 minutes with a solid setup. I've blown up Zodiark and Ultima, within seconds before now. I've completed Hell Wyrm and Omega Weapon in under 5 minutes, as opposed to the 1.5-2 hours each they'd take normally.

But thats what I enjoyed about the game. It was a depth challenge, to come up with the best setup for a specific boss and refine it to the point of optimisation. That, to me, has always been the core part of the Final Fantasy gameplay. It doesn't matter if that's having the right jobs to tackle a fight in 3 and 5, the right materia in 7 or beating 10 with no sphere grid, the core challenge was always having the best stratergy to win. The actual act of participating in combat in each of those is remarkably shallow too, in the worst cases it was hitting X over and over until the boss died, but that never stopped them being a fun challenge to overcome.

Back OT for FFXIV. I finally finished getting my Black Mage to 70, and while I do love the big numbers, the spell visuals and get big satisfaction in seeing enemies just melt .....this game is terrible for turret casters, especially one with such a tight rotation as Black Mage

I never really feel as though I get to really play much as a Black Mage. I mean, I start casting spells, but have to cancel them more frequently than I would like and have to use Transpose to keep Enochian running which, of course, further tanks any meaningful damage output. It feels like you're playing Tower Defence while the rest of your group is playing Final Fantasy.

It's good and well the Black Mage having obscene turret DPS, but if they're never going to get the chance to use it then what's the point? You never go adventuring in science labs so those theoretical numbers have no practical applications.

@StrawberryZebra: I just prefer killing monsters while talking to people and interacting rather then soloing everything, i dont know what exactly this has to do with nostalgia

FF14 always had a lot of callbacks to other FF titles, but they've really pushed the boat out with Stormblood. I wasn't addressing Eureka specifically but the trajectory the game is on as a whole.

[lawow74]

It's good and well the Black Mage having obscene turret DPS, but if they're never going to get the chance to use it then what's the point? You never go adventuring in science labs so those theoretical numbers have no practical applications.

That's the one of the main reasons I stick to BRD. If standing around and casting is such a PITA to pull off when every encounter is 'AoE AoE AoE lol isn't dodging this crap fun lol AoE', why subject yourself to that? I'd rather stay mobile and, more importantly, stay ranged as well. All I see to BRD are upsides. No cast times, no positionals, no combos, fight at range, and you can plink away at a harp when you feel like it.

[Wrecktangle]

But thats what I enjoyed about the game. It was a depth challenge, to come up with the best setup for a specific boss and refine it to the point of optimisation. That, to me, has always been the core part of the Final Fantasy gameplay. It doesn't matter if that's having the right jobs to tackle a fight in 3 and 5, the right materia in 7 or beating 10 with no sphere grid, the core challenge was always having the best stratergy to win. The actual act of participating in combat in each of those is remarkably shallow too, in the worst cases it was hitting X over and over until the boss died, but that never stopped them being a fun challenge to overcome.

I won't sugarcoat it. As much as I love FF7/9 and still do playthroughs to this day, they aren't deep from a combat perspective. I hear you loud and clear there.

I look at a game like Tactics where you can see preparation/depth in SPADES, but at the same time the actual combat system is just as engaging as the preparation. That to me is what they should be trying to do. Emulate the success, engagement, and depth of that engine (note: I AM NOT SAYING COPY IT, JUST THE SUCCESS OF IT).

While I can't comment on FF12's depth because I lack the expertise, the combat itself was enough to put me off. It was jarring. It wasn't good as an action combat game, and it wasn't good as a turn based, so it's a good simulator? Not my idea of fun, especially not in the FF sphere.

[Katchii]

I won't sugarcoat it. As much as I love FF7/9 and still do playthroughs to this day, they aren't deep from a combat perspective. I hear you loud and clear there.

I look at a game like Tactics where you can see preparation/depth in SPADES, but at the same time the actual combat system is just as engaging as the preparation. That to me is what they should be trying to do. Emulate the success, engagement, and depth of that engine (note: I AM NOT SAYING COPY IT, JUST THE SUCCESS OF IT).

While I can't comment on FF12's depth because I lack the expertise, the combat itself was enough to put me off. It was jarring. It wasn't good as an action combat game, and it wasn't good as a turn based, so it's a good simulator? Not my idea of fun, especially not in the FF sphere.

Pretty much my feelings exactly.

[zito]

Do tribe quests reset twice a day? I swear i do them then a few hours later they are up again. I know they reset at 11 am est but this is before that

[RohanV]

Do tribe quests reset twice a day? I swear i do them then a few hours later they are up again. I know they reset at 11 am est but this is before that

Did you just hit a reputation level? I believe you get a new set immediately after you get to the next rep level.

[lawow74]

Did you just hit a reputation level? I believe you get a new set immediately after you get to the next rep level.

Correct. For all but the last two rep-ups (to Sworn and Bloodsworn), you can do an extra three a day after you do the rep-up key quest.

[Graeham]

So, the next Live Letter is on the 11th May! We should get the trailer, then, too.

[Kazgrel]

Here's hoping for some nifty changes to DRK, since it's one of the three mentioned in the previous LL. More Souleater potency is the last thing they need (since that's often one of the only changes DRK ever sees).

Haven't been around on here much lately thanks to being obscenely busy.

[Faroth]

I can't help but think that nostalgia is the driving factor for FF14's success at this point. There's a solid MMO in there too, but nostalgia has been the main factor for recent design choices it seems.

One thing implemented over the course of 6 years of content in this game and nostalgia is suddenly the main factor in their design choices?

Oooooookay. >_>

[lawow74]

One thing implemented over the course of 6 years of content in this game and nostalgia is suddenly the main factor in their design choices?

Oooooookay. >_>

I think he means that plus the design impetus behind both the raids to date has been callbacks to older FF games. It gives me a 'Warlords of Draenor' vibe, trying to cash in on nostalgia to keep the playerbase invested.

[Kazgrel]

I think he means that plus the design impetus behind both the raids to date has been callbacks to older FF games. It gives me a 'Warlords of Draenor' vibe, trying to cash in on nostalgia to keep the playerbase invested.

The quote Faroth referred to was directed at Eureka, iirc.

This game’s far from WoD vibes to me. That’ll happen when they stop having flight in new regions going forward or set the quests to unlock flight to open 4 months before the xpac is over...anywho, as a veteran of umpteen threads about that topic in WoW, I’ll just stop here.

[Grym]

That's the one of the main reasons I stick to BRD. If standing around and casting is such a PITA to pull off when every encounter is 'AoE AoE AoE lol isn't dodging this crap fun lol AoE', why subject yourself to that? I'd rather stay mobile and, more importantly, stay ranged as well. All I see to BRD are upsides. No cast times, no positionals, no combos, fight at range, and you can plink away at a harp when you feel like it.

I stopped for a bit, towards end of Heavensward.

But at the time, BRD cannot cast while moving, at least not if you have the song on, which is needed for damage.

Unless you just mean un-do the song when moving and re-cast the song whenever stop moving?

[Kazgrel]

I stopped for a bit, towards end of Heavensward.

But at the time, BRD cannot cast while moving, at least not if you have the song on, which is needed for damage.

Unless you just mean un-do the song when moving and re-cast the song whenever stop moving?

BRD got a gigantic overhaul with Stormblood. It’s back to being able to run and gun, for starters.

[Grym]

BRD got a gigantic overhaul with Stormblood. It’s back to being able to run and gun, for starters.

Awww man, that alone almost got me to want to try it again.

But not sure if I want to come back now after being gone for so long.

[lawow74]

The quote Faroth referred to was directed at Eureka, iirc.

This game’s far from WoD vibes to me. That’ll happen when they stop having flight in new regions going forward or set the quests to unlock flight to open 4 months before the xpac is over...anywho, as a veteran of umpteen threads about that topic in WoW, I’ll just stop here.

Yes, but I don't think Eureka was the only thing Zebra was talking about. The nostalgia factor is a big force behind both the Omega and Ivalice raids' designs to date, hence my reference to WoD which involved the old Horde as a big focus to its story.

Awww man, that alone almost got me to want to try it again.

But not sure if I want to come back now after being gone for so long.

It's never a bad time to come back, catching up is easy to do, especially as we're about to enter a catch-up patch. BRD is so much more fun now, instead of gimping your DPS with support songs and having to play Bowmage you rotate between them to give yourself different combat buffs and support your allies with them and other abilities as well.

[StrawberryZebra]

One thing implemented over the course of 6 years of content in this game and nostalgia is suddenly the main factor in their design choices?

Oooooookay. >_>

Not a sudden shift to be sure. It's always been present to some extent.

With Stormblood however they've definately tried to recapture some of the same feeling as FF11 with the Red Mage and Eureka. They've got an entire dungeon that is basically a rerun of a section of FF6, as well as callbacks to FF5 and the Ivalice games.

It's not a problem, by any stretch of the imagination, just a general direction the game seems to be heading in. More nostalgia content, less content unique to the world of FF14. I'm okay with that, even if I would prefer them to flesh out 14 more on its own rather than a world built on nostalgia and references to other FF titles.