Grover Norquist and the Republicans have betrayed the US military!

[anveena]

Anyone with half a brain could tell that we need to cut our defense budget. Do we really need to out spend the next 20+ nations?

The United States of America's military budget (2010): 698,105,000,000

The next 25 nations military budgets combined(2010): 702,188,917,600

[Deleted]

ANYONE who stands in the way of rational compromise is a threat to the security and strength of the USA.

Maybe they should be declared terrorists and assassinated.

Tip: Compromise isn't always good. And what you think is Rational always isn't.

[Sunseeker]

Tip: Compromise isn't always good. And what you think is Rational always isn't.

No, compromise isn't always good. But compromise is a damn lot better than doing nothing but more damage.

"Rational" is: Hey, we were elected to govern the country and work together to come to an agreeable solution.
"Irrational is": Hey, we made a deal with this one guy and that's more important than our jobs so lets fuck over the country in favor of a hardline ideology.

[Dacien]

No, compromise isn't always good. But compromise is a damn lot better than doing nothing but more damage.

"Rational" is: Hey, we were elected to govern the country and work together to come to an agreeable solution.
"Irrational is": Hey, we made a deal with this one guy and that's more important than our jobs so lets fuck over the country in favor of a hardline ideology.

Lower defense spending doesn't really seem like it's screwing over the country. We spend more on Defense than anything else, iirc.

[Sunseeker]

Lower defense spending doesn't really seem like it's screwing over the country. We spend more on Defense than anything else, iirc.

That's not what I was referring to. I was referring to being absolutely against revenue increases.

[Dacien]

That's not what I was referring to. I was referring to being absolutely against revenue increases.

I still think that's doesn't fit your criterion. What's funny is that if the US government was a business run by a smart businessman, we'd get the same things done we get done now for a fraction of the cost. Yes, the workers would have to accept more reasonable pay and normal retirement plans, but we'd all be so much better off.

But what we don't need is to keep feeding government. They've proven they're bad with money, and I don't begrudge them that; it's the nature of the beast. But I will stand vehemently against giving them more money.

[Wells]

What's funny is that if the US government was a business run by a smart businessman, we'd get the same things done we get done now for a fraction of the cost.

With zero historical basis to back this up.

Yes, the workers would have to accept more reasonable pay and normal retirement plans, but we'd all be so much better off.

I thought we weren't supposed to decide what other people's pay was reasonable or not.

[the1skate]

Anyone with half a brain could tell that we need to cut our defense budget. Do we really need to out spend the next 20+ nations?

The United States of America's military budget (2010): 698,105,000,000

The next 25 nations military budgets combined(2010): 702,188,917,600

While we are spending more as a % of GDP than we have since 1990 we are spending a lot less than we did before the "peace dividend" came with the fall of the Soviet Union.

[Buttfear]

I'm American and would like to see the military budget cut by 90%, we're not at war and therefore don't need a huge military.

[the1skate]

Lower defense spending doesn't really seem like it's screwing over the country. We spend more on Defense than anything else, iirc.

Actually Dacien we spend more on Social Security and health care than we do on defense. Link

[Dacien]

I thought we weren't supposed to decide what other people's pay was reasonable or not.

When they take it out of my wallet, yes, I feel strongly that I have a say. And I'm not being unreasonable here, I'm not asking they be paid in hotel vouchers and bagels. Many public workers make obscene salaries for what they do, and their retirement plans are shocking in how greedy they are.

[Sunseeker]

I still think that's doesn't fit your criterion. What's funny is that if the US government was a business run by a smart businessman,

Yes, the ever-touted "benevolent dictator" argument. Why can't we just "Be China for a day?" Think of all we could get done! We could "fire" all the people we don't like, and by "fire" I mean "deport" or "execute". We could forcibly make people change departments because we need more labor in sales and not construction. Like that cushy education job? Well now you're working 50 hours a week in manufacturing!

And yes why can't we just have the "perfect leader" who will tell us all where to go and where to sit. So much for freedom right? No no we don't need that so long as the man in charge is a smart businessman!

[Dacien]

Actually Dacien we spend more on Social Security and health care than we do on defense. Link

Glad I included my iirc qualifier

Close though, we spend a lot.

[Wells]

When they take it out of my wallet, yes, I feel strongly that I have a say. And I'm not being unreasonable here, I'm not asking they be paid in hotel vouchers and bagels. Many public workers make obscene salaries for what they do, and their retirement plans are shocking in how greedy they are.

Given your personal contribution to the wages of any given public employee probably doesn't make up 1/1000 of 1% I'm not sure how much of a say that gives you.

[Dacien]

Yes, the ever-touted "benevolent dictator" argument. Why can't we just "Be China for a day?" Think of all we could get done! We could "fire" all the people we don't like, and by "fire" I mean "deport" or "execute". We could forcibly make people change departments because we need more labor in sales and not construction. Like that cushy education job? Well now you're working 50 hours a week in manufacturing!

And yes why can't we just have the "perfect leader" who will tell us all where to go and where to sit. So much for freedom right? No no we don't need that so long as the man in charge is a smart businessman!

Whoa whoa whoa, you took my point to great lengths here. Let me rephrase. "If our elected leaders were businessmen who were business-minded."

---------- Post added 2011-11-23 at 03:09 PM ----------

Given your personal contribution to the wages of any given public employee probably doesn't make up 1/1000 of 1% I'm not sure how much of a say that gives you.

So because the thousands of dollars I pay in taxes are split a thousand different ways, I have no say in any of them? Not on board with that, Wells.

[Sunseeker]

Whoa whoa whoa, you took my point to great lengths here. Let me rephrase. "If our elected leaders were businessmen who were business-minded."

The nation isn't a business. You can't run it like one. That's like saying that a horse is like a car and you can fill them both up with gasoline.

[Dacien]

The nation isn't a business. You can't run it like one. That's like saying that a horse is like a car and you can fill them both up with gasoline.

Revenue streams, expenditures, obligations, these are the things they have in common in which government handles badly, and the private sector excels.

[Sunseeker]

Revenue streams, expenditures, obligations, these are the things they have in common in which government handles badly, and the private sector excels.

Social issues, human concerns, environmental issues, these are things that the private sector fails at horribly. You cannot analyze every national issue through the focus of a dollar. It simply does NOT work.

[Wells]

Whoa whoa whoa, you took my point to great lengths here. Let me rephrase. "If our elected leaders were businessmen who were business-minded."

Then they could run a business. Which isn't the government. Government and business are fundamentally different, which is why we have and need both.

I wouldn't want the government handling the clothing industry. I don't want businesses managing the fire department or having absolute say in worker conditions.

[Hughes]

Then they could run a business. Which isn't the government. Government and business are fundamentally different, which is why we have and need both.

I wouldn't want the government handling the clothing industry. I don't want businesses managing the fire department or having absolute say in worker conditions.

I believe what he was getting at is looking at the economics. With the way money is going in this country it would be considered 'bad business.'