Surv? What? Huh? How?

[Deleted]

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/q1kz1...?s=6323&e=6662

I spent like 4-5 hours prior to the raid finding out how to play Surv from scratch, since when my Hunter hit 85, MM was best.
What i'm wondering is, what the hell do I do when I have haste procs up (so like 1.0 sec cobra shots) and LnL proc? Do I wait for the previous ES to finish ticking (sitting doing nothing for a few sec) or get focus capped or what?

I'm constantly always getting focus capped with 2pc T13 in Surv, almost always during LnL procs, then I find myself focus starved for Black arrow+ES coming up at the same time OR focus capped again!

Am I just being dumb or over complicating it?

Reason i'm not posting in "help my dps" thread is cause.. well.. nobody looks there, really?

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...airii/advanced

Atm i'm trying to go: 961 hit -> 1250 haste -> crit -> mastery -> haste

Advice? Sit and do nothing for a sec or so for ES to stop ticking or get focus capped or??... :/

[Tfudge]

I've noticed this lately as well...
The only thing i can think to focus dump (though have not actually tried this) is kill command - as to how effective it will be.... /shrug
Or depending on your prof/race you could use a gcd on say engy gloves, goblin racial, something that won't gimp your damage

[Pope]

If you're about to get focused-capped during LnL, just use Kill Command. Fills the gap between your two ES.
I think with the T13 2piece our rotation is way better then before. I'm not focus starving as much as I did in 4.2.

Did you try the rotation with Explosion trap instead of Black arrow?

[Thetalisker]

Use Kill Command after your first ES in those L&L cases. In your normal 'rotation' you should be able to cast 2 CS and one instant in between ES - so either Arcane or Black Arrow.

[tommerbob]

You shouldn't use Kill Command as MM or Survival. Use Arcane Shot as focus dump. When you get an LnL proc: ES-Cobra-Es-Arcane Shot-Es. You could do Es-KillCommand-Es-ArcaneShot-ES instead, but I do not recommend it. Why? Because if you are at low focus, you can use my first rotation, and still cast 3 ES's. If you use Kill Command, you can't do that, you'll get focus starved.

If you are having problems with getting focus-capped, get into the habit of using Arcane Shot more. You should never have more than 75-80 Focus, ever. Remember, you can use LnL procs even with ZERO focus. The only time when you should worry about focus is making sure you have 44 focus when ES comes up, and 35 focus when Black Arrow comes up. Some people prefer using Explosive Trap instead of Black Arrow, which essentially saves you a ton of focus by itself.

[Fugitivelama]

I've noticed this lately as well...
The only thing i can think to focus dump (though have not actually tried this) is kill command - as to how effective it will be.... /shrug
Or depending on your prof/race you could use a gcd on say engy gloves, goblin racial, something that won't gimp your damage

Engineering gloves and racials are not on the GCD. I can not speak for other profession bonus' but I would assume they are the same way.

Also the way DoTs stack on targets has changed, it is no longer necessary to fire a filler shot in between the free ES(in most situations). A dot that is refreshed with 1tick remaining will have that one tic applied to the new DoT. Basically what this means is that instead of using a filler in between your ES from LnL you can just wait a fraction of a second before firing the 2nd one, Frostheim notes that .01 seconds is enough. This allows for more ES's and more LnL procs throughout the fight and thus increasing our overall damage. The only time you may want to use a filler shot or to take a longer pause is if you are moving closer to your target as shot flight time factors in to this. In most Cases your LnL proc rotation will be.... Explosive - .01second pause(The 2nd shot can not be qued till .01 sec after GCD has expired from the first one) - Explosive - Arcane - Explosive

[sleepingforest]

You shouldn't use Kill Command as MM or Survival. Use Arcane Shot as focus dump. When you get an LnL proc: ES-Cobra-Es-Arcane Shot-Es. You could do Es-KillCommand-Es-ArcaneShot-ES instead, but I do not recommend it. Why? Because if you are at low focus, you can use my first rotation, and still cast 3 ES's. If you use Kill Command, you can't do that, you'll get focus starved.

If you are having problems with getting focus-capped, get into the habit of using Arcane Shot more. You should never have more than 75-80 Focus, ever. Remember, you can use LnL procs even with ZERO focus. The only time when you should worry about focus is making sure you have 44 focus when ES comes up, and 35 focus when Black Arrow comes up. Some people prefer using Explosive Trap instead of Black Arrow, which essentially saves you a ton of focus by itself.

using KC to drop keep from getting focus capped is better than adding a cobra shot in the middle, what do you need even more focus for? with the new 2pc it's almost impossible to get focus starved.

[Deleted]

Ok this thread is a hilarious read.

Since the new dot-clipping mechanic, you can get away with ES, ES, AS, ES - the first 2 ES you fire off will not clip each other any more, just make sure you delay the 3rd.

NEVER use Kill Command, as SV it hits for less than arcane shot.

You should never be focus capped - try to float around 60 - 1 cobra, 1 arcane, 1 cobra 1 arcane.
Plan ahead with your BA (/trap) cooldown and start saving up a little, about 6 seconds before it comes up, just spam cobra (ES, then CSx3 and you'll have a buttload of focus for both BA and ES)

Explosive trap is currently simming higher DPS than BA in certain situations (if you can proc it, and keep the boss in if for the full duration, and can launch the trap without fumbling too much) so have a play around with that too.

[tommerbob]

using KC to drop keep from getting focus capped is better than adding a cobra shot in the middle, what do you need even more focus for? with the new 2pc it's almost impossible to get focus starved.

No, its not. KC costs 40 focus. Assuming you even have that much focus when you get an LnL proc, that will make you focus starved, and unable to cast your 3rd ES.Using Cobra shot, regardless of how much focus you have (you should never have more than 75 to 80 anyway), you can always get 3 ES's.

[Dunee]

Actually these days you can reliably do ES ES arcane ES (unless you are moving towards the boss) and you WILL get all 9 ticks (if you are moving towards the boss while doing this you will do 8 ticks)

[Pope]

Ok this thread is a hilarious read.

Since the new dot-clipping mechanic, you can get away with ES, ES, AS, ES - the first 2 ES you fire off will not clip each other any more, just make sure you delay the 3rd.

NEVER use Kill Command, as SV it hits for less than arcane shot.

You should never be focus capped - try to float around 60 - 1 cobra, 1 arcane, 1 cobra 1 arcane.
Plan ahead with your BA (/trap) cooldown and start saving up a little, about 6 seconds before it comes up, just spam cobra (ES, then CSx3 and you'll have a buttload of focus for both BA and ES)

Explosive trap is currently simming higher DPS than BA in certain situations (if you can proc it, and keep the boss in if for the full duration, and can launch the trap without fumbling too much) so have a play around with that too.

Which dot-clipping? I'm still losing ES-ticks when I shoot them back to back. (Just tested it. 3 Shots, back to back. 7 Ticks.)

KC is not a dumb spell to use as surv. You easily have situations like these:

- Pooling Focus for the next ES, but LnL procs at 40 focus.
- You shoot ES. TotH-proc. You're over 60 focus now.
- Using CS now will easily cap your focus, especially with T13. When you fired your second ES of LnL, you're at 100 focus. Congrats.

That's what KC is for.

(seriously, I'm using KC only under TnT when I'm at high focus due to LnL, or haste-procs or BL or whatever.)
Focus-capping is bad, and it's better to at least do something. It still hits in the 5-digit-region.

[Deleted]

If you read what i said, only the first 2 wont clip, if you fire the 3rd one, you'll lose ticks.

Try it now: ES-ES-AS-ES and you'll get all 9 ticks.

Also - at 60 focus, casting 1x CS will take you to about 87 focus, which is fine

[Maelstrom51]

If you read what i said, only the first 2 wont clip, if you fire the 3rd one, you'll lose ticks.

Try it now: ES-ES-AS-ES and you'll get all 9 ticks.

Also - at 60 focus, casting 1x CS will take you to about 87 focus, which is fine

Using the lag tolerance thing, you will clip one or two firing them like that. To solve the problem, you can simply backpedal while executing it, or wait a fraction of a second.

[Pope]

If you read what i said, only the first 2 wont clip, if you fire the 3rd one, you'll lose ticks.

Try it now: ES-ES-AS-ES and you'll get all 9 ticks.

Also - at 60 focus, casting 1x CS will take you to about 87 focus, which is fine

I stand corrected, I probably missed the clipping mechanic. This changes everything.

But anyway, I'm gonna keep KC on my bar for now, maybe it'll still be useful.

[tommerbob]

I didn't know they fixed clipping. This is awesome news!

So it looks like best LnL rotation is ES-ES-AS-ES

[Dorfie]

If you read what i said, only the first 2 wont clip, if you fire the 3rd one, you'll lose ticks.

Try it now: ES-ES-AS-ES and you'll get all 9 ticks.

Also - at 60 focus, casting 1x CS will take you to about 87 focus, which is fine

I'm getting 9 ticks like 80% of the time and 8 ticks the rest. Hmm?

[Deleted]

I'm getting 9 ticks like 80% of the time and 8 ticks the rest. Hmm?

Not entirely sure - i spent about an hour messing around with it and i think i only got 8 ticks once.

Roughly how far away from the dummy are you?

[Bombs]

Actually these days you can reliably do ES ES arcane ES (unless you are moving towards the boss) and you WILL get all 9 ticks (if you are moving towards the boss while doing this you will do 8 ticks)

Most people here are telling you what they are doing on their hunters. Most people are wrong. Do what Dunee says because that is the way to play Sv now. Anyone using KC outside of BM nowadays...I don't even know what to say.

Also, use Explosive Trap on cooldown instead of Black Arrow because Explosive Trap will proc LnL TWICE during its duration. The only fight where this is not possible is Ultraxion, you have to use Black Arrow there.

Hopefully that clears things up.

[Dorfie]

Just did 10 tests at 35 yards stationary using ES > ES > AS > ES. 5/10 were 8 ticks, 5/10 were 9 ticks. Something isn't right.

[Pope]

I even got the 9 ticks standing 10 meters away from the dummy.
So it's definitely not the range.

What I'm thinking is:
The "ignite"-mechanic of ES seems to be able to work with 6 ticks. (confirmed by shooting AS and ES with LnL, and another ES afterwards. 6 ticks.)

So I guess the delay of the arcane shot isn't long enough to consume all 6 ticks of both explosive shots.

So that would mean with an arcane shot and a heartbeat-delay, we should get all 9 ticks.