NOOB Thread - Ultraxion 10N & DPS

[Deleted]

Hi guys , I used to hardcore raid in TBC (quit in sunwell after my guild exploded for mu'ru wipes) and i came back for cata , joining this time a friendly casual guild.
They're all clueless about raiding and/or even mashing a single button, but after a few weeks we managed to arrive at Ultraxion (suffering mostly at zon'ozz for coordination issues)

185024 is the GUILD it at World of Logs (sorry I haven't the number of posts to link it in the forum!) and there are the logs of two nights at it , since I'm an holy pally i can't really say why they can't do more than 20k dps even if they're almost in 390gear , and that's why I wanted to asks some tips about the encounter for maximizing raid dps.

Raid composition is , like every friendly guild, almost changing 1-2-3 players every night

Yesterday Group was

Prot Pally
Frost/Blood DK

Demo/Destro Lock
Moonkin
Hunter
Fury War
Enhancement Shaman


Holy Pally (Me)
Holy/Disci Priest
Resto Shaman
----------

Blood Dk soaks (in dps gear) the hour of twilight , and taunts the boss when protadin has fading light . When ppl don't miss fading light and die stupidly , we usually make ultrax go in enrage with 10-15 mil hp left making me think it's only a dps problem (check the logs for it) .


Now, the easy answer is "change guild" but since i don't want to yet for many reasons I humbly ask for some tips!

tnx in advance and I hope you can manage to help us ^^

Bye ^^

[Deleted]

My guild is having similar issues only on their (I wasn't there) last attempt the highest was 25k

Basically when you have 5 dps and two tanks doing about 10k each the dps should do about 27.5k on average which should be no problem for 390 ilvl gear.

[Deleted]

Just 2 heal it. We struggled with 3 and laughed at it with 2. Even with low DPS, the fight should die way before the damage becomes harsh. Aim to kill it before the 5 min mark in 10 man normal, and 2 healers is plenty. There really is no point 3 healing it. All your doing is extending the fight to a point where 5 healers would struggle. Take an extra DPS, and kill it before the damage becomes too much. Gl.

[Deleted]

2 healing it still requires 23k dps per person, if they struggle to do 20k they're still going to wipe

Something is seriously wrong for someone with 390 ilvl not doing close to 30k dps

*edit*
Just looked at Sefis, enhancement shaman in your guild and have a lot of pointers really quick :
- completely redo reforging, not hit capped, not expertise capped, reforge for way more mastery
- get rid of shitty haste trinkets asap (fluid death > arrow of time)
- get rid of green gems
- his talents are more for pvp, not good enough for pve

*edit 2*
number of lava lashes is also a bit on the low side, only 16 while it's a 6 minute fight and a 10 second cooldown skill, should be closer to 36
Worst part though is that I can't see lightning bolt in the list...

[Deleted]

DPS for Last Enrage Attempt

Name Amount DPS DPS(e) Active Time
Destro LOCK 8613294 17.85% 23927.3 23533.7 360.0s 98.6%
HUNTER 8442842 17.49% 23546.2 23067.9 358.6s 98.2%
BLOOD DK 7728493 16.01% 21256.8 21116.2 363.6s 99.6%
DEMO LOCK 7052625 14.61% 19614.4 19269.5 359.6s 98.5%
Moonkin 6531661 13.53% 18086.8 17846.1 361.1s 98.9%
Enhancement 5131863 10.63% 14503.3 14021.5 353.8s 96.9%
Prot pala 3543992 7.34% 9834.0 9683.1 360.4s 98.7%

Hps for Enrage attempt
HPally 16644347 45.10% 45590.6 45476.5 365.1s 100.0%
Hpriest 10291035 27.89% 29999.0 28117.7 343.0s 94.0%
Rshaman 6354547 17.22% 17754.8 17362.2 357.9s 98.0%

Any thoughts?

[Deleted]

tnx for the tips , i will surely deliver them to him ..btw better you don't see our tank then you would find a lot of errors here too

---------- Post added 2012-01-17 at 11:21 AM ----------

DPS for Last Enrage Attempt

Name Amount DPS DPS(e) Active Time
Destro LOCK 8613294 17.85% 23927.3 23533.7 360.0s 98.6%
HUNTER 8442842 17.49% 23546.2 23067.9 358.6s 98.2%
BLOOD DK 7728493 16.01% 21256.8 21116.2 363.6s 99.6%
DEMO LOCK 7052625 14.61% 19614.4 19269.5 359.6s 98.5%
Moonkin 6531661 13.53% 18086.8 17846.1 361.1s 98.9%
Enhancement 5131863 10.63% 14503.3 14021.5 353.8s 96.9%
Prot pala 3543992 7.34% 9834.0 9683.1 360.4s 98.7%

Hps for Enrage attempt
HPally 16644347 45.10% 45590.6 45476.5 365.1s 100.0%
Hpriest 10291035 27.89% 29999.0 28117.7 343.0s 94.0%
Rshaman 6354547 17.22% 17754.8 17362.2 357.9s 98.0%

Btw here are dps and hps for ppl who can't see wol.

Enhancement low dps has been "solved" by dahmer , tnx a lot (hopefully =D

[Deleted]

tnx for the tips , i will surely deliver them to him ..btw better you don't see our tank then you would find a lot of errors here too

I look at my own class/spec first and generally at lowest dps first, usually most room for improvement

Quick look at all their gear and dps I can say they all need to do some reading, http://www.noxxic.com/ should be a good start.

[Hviske10ske]

If you wanted to 3 heal, then you need about 35-40k more raid dps, we roughly made it when we had about 167k raid dps and using 3 healers. When we changed a few things around we managed to get about 171-173k raid dps, and then it was just a pushover.

Not sure about how much dps you need with 2 healers, but im guessing its about the same since it was only during the last 1-2 phases where healing really becomes a problem. So if going with 2 healers, try to aim for about 180k raid dps, thats still about 24.8k needed from the dps (asuming your tanks are doing the 21k+10 mentioned above)

Basicly. Tell you dps L2P, im doing about 34k myself, and im a feral wich cant shred on that boss. Your dps should try and find some guides on EJ, MMO or whatever class specific websites is out there. Even your prot pala should be doing more dps aswell. 14.5k as a dps in DS just isnt good enough, most of your ppl (asuming 390 gear) should be able to push out about 28k without being top notch players, but just knowing the basics of their class. Thats more than enough to make the enrage since you only need about 25k (rough estimate)

[Deleted]

Tell your paladintank to use shield of the righteous...

Otherwise, as people have stated - 2 heal it. With the crystals(and especially a holy paladin) it wont be hard at all to heal till the enrage

[Blackmist]

2 healing it reduces damage needed. The damage doesn't really kick in until the 5 minute mark (where it effectively doubles over what it was the minute before). At that point it's barely healable with 3 anyway. If your dps aren't doing 25-30k then you might as well give it up until they learn to play, in all honesty.

[Deleted]

Two heal it, you're a holy pally. That means you can carry the fight really hard, in fact if you have enough gear you can solo heal with ease. There is ZERO need for 3 healers. Also weather 2 or 3 healing make sure the Disc priest is smiting at the start, it's free damage. I can check you pallies and priest so here goes:

Prot Pally
1) Gems should be yellow - mastery, blue - mastery+stam and red - mastery+parry OR all mastery.
2) Reforging is non existent, get more mastery at the cost of expertise and hit
3) Spec is terrible, use this one http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZGMhsRddoRucbG
4) No glyphs at all
5) Start using SotR when 3 HoPo is up, it'll vastly increase his DPS (which right now is way too low)

Holy Pally
1) Unglyph LoD for this fight
That's all I got, seems in order. Make sure to take red and blue buff (letting the other healer do green) and carry heals. Save CDs for the last minute and then spam HR non stop with blue

Priest
1) If you 2 healing it stay holy so that there's more benefit from green
2) If going disc then get Atonement and smite for the first minute of the fight, it helps on DPS a lot.

But your primary problem is DPS doing way less than what they should in that gear. With their gear they're all capable of at least 25k, some upwards of 30 and yet they're being beaten by tanks and dropping to below 20k a lot. I honestly don't know how this is happening but they need to play way better, even if you kill Ultrax you'll wipe on Gunship for months. Ask for individual help on the class forums and just... focus more?

[Merlaine]

There is a similar thread up in the WoW forums - Not allowed to post links yet, but if you do a search, you should find it easy enough.

Like others have said, our guild struggled to do this with 3 healers, managing it easily enough with two - key is the buffs the healers take tho.

Popping BL at the start, while the healers enter Hour of Twilight, and having a separate BL for them when they needed it most, worked great too!!

We also found that changing our raid composition where nearly all the buffs were covered, made a difference of about 3-4k dps per person overall, and some were doing over 30k during BL with volcanic potion (or class equivalent). Since you don't have to rely on a tank yelling 'pulling' and the timer from dbm shows exactly when the fight will start, prepotting for BL is easy, and you can include a second volcanic potion later in the fight.

Doing this made the difference from us wiping consistently while he had about 5-10% health left, to having a minute to spare on the enrage timer when we downed him.

[Deleted]

2 healing it reduces damage needed. The damage doesn't really kick in until the 5 minute mark (where it effectively doubles over what it was the minute before). At that point it's barely healable with 3 anyway. If your dps aren't doing 25-30k then you might as well give it up until they learn to play, in all honesty.

Yeah I really begin to thought the same two heal it wasn't a problem yesterday (we also tried with shaman going elemental but with healing gear -.-) , but overall dps really seems an issue. We try tonight with 6 main specced dps and I will update the posts (if anyone is interested ofc =D )

I , as hpally , have no issues in raid healing even after the 5 minute mark..so ppl just learn to push their buttons and do better :/ usually our wipes at previous bosses (and here) are always caused by bad dps (first unsleeping tries were enrages -.-) and bad tanking/coordination (zon'ozz ball issues) ..

and now that! I really fear that spine will be an overkill for us since it requires again nice dps and coord :d

[Deleted]

Regarding your tank: His gems are plain bad. And so is his reforging. Refer him to this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3ZiBUn_DAk It will explain him how to gem, reforge and stuff.
Regarding his dps: He did 56 crusader strikes and got 8 grand crusader procs. This means 64 holy power. He did 7 Words of glory (Totally pointless with 3 healers, He'll never need to heal himself), didn't use inquisition and only did 4 Shield of the righteous. That's (7+4)*3 = 33 holy power. That's 31 holy power he didn't use at all during the fight. If those were used with Shield of the righteous, assuming average 30k damage per (it crits with sacred duty) that's almost 1 extra million damage done. That's almost 30% damage increase right there. He's also got NO glyphs at all. Using Glyph of Seal of truth + Glyph of shield of the righteous + glyph of crusader strike would boost his dps a shitload again. Have him change this things and not only will he take a lot less damage (oh, and on this fight he can keep 100% uptime in holy shield, but only has about 40%)

[Deleted]

My guild is having similar issues only on their (I wasn't there) last attempt the highest was 25k

Basically when you have 5 dps and two tanks doing about 10k each the dps should do about 27.5k on average which should be no problem for 390 ilvl gear.

Just wanted to touch on the tank dps, they should be alot higher then 10k each (our first kill i was doing 23k dps as prot warrior and fucked up rotation quite a bit..)
I would recommend them going for a bit of expertise, make sure they have all dps talents and personally, i equipped essence trinket (fl rep, 1,3k str, 1 min cd) and macro it.
Also might wanna get bigwigs (you get a lady counting down from 5 on fading light) and tell raid to try and shave the time spent inside.

Giving DI to disc priest might not be the best choice, i would take moonkin / shamy healer.
Warrior used reck once, should be twice.
Garet should use divine plea and stack some dmg boost.
No prepot or pots being used

If the raid is having trouble focusing on everything, an idea might be to have dps macro their cd's to something they use often to maximize uptime (yes, this is not best practice by far...but dps is so low..)

And last, 2 healing (according to our healers) is not very hard at all :P

[Deleted]

Tnx for the help, i know that our MT (also our kid GM) is the main problem of the raid/guild. But he's also a jerk that doesn't listen to any advice ...he never uses any CDs either...and you know that in many situation like Zon'ozz psychic drain+melee a CD it's a tank lifesafer...and I can't count how many times he died with that combo oneshotted with no cd used

BTW any advice is usefull and i'll try to face him this afternoon (when he comes back from school ^____^) ...

[Dazzy]

Once we got to the point where everyone could click the button reliably we were about 6 million short every time.

We had 3 27k dps and 2 at ~18k, luckily the 2 18ks were unavailable on an early night of attempts and their replacements did 21k, we were still coming up ~3 mill short.

How we ended up killing it was everyone prepotted and we lusted at the start. made it with 45s left to enrage (which would have made it easily 2 healable), but we had 3.

[Deleted]

Didn't actually look at the pala on my first post but just did, and i cried and died a bit inside........ :P

This is what he should do in terms of gemming/reforging/enchanting (quickly done at work, during lunch lol)

Head - Reforge parry-Dodge, enchant with arcanum of the highlands. Socket 20/20 par/mast
Shoulder reforge parry->mastery, enchant terazane. Gem pure mast, keep stam gem.
Back reforge parry>mastery, enchant 250 armor, gem pure mast.
Chest reforge dodge->mastery. gem pure mast and 20/30 parry/stam
Bracers enchant dodge. gem pure mast
Shield enchant mastery
ranged. gem pure mast, reforge parry-dodge
Hands enchant 65 mast, gem pure mast, reforge hit->mast
Waist get beltbuckle and gem pure mast, keep stam, reforge parry->mastery
legs gem defenders demoneye, pure mast, keep stam.
ring 1. reforge dodge->mastery
Trinkets. something else would be ideal, like mirror, spindle, vp trinket, basically something with mastery
Feet: enchant 50 mastery.

This wont be exact by any means, but it will be 1000000% better then his current setup, read earlier post for glyhps and spec

[Guthric]

Two heal it, you're a holy pally. That means you can carry the fight really hard, in fact if you have enough gear you can solo heal with ease. There is ZERO need for 3 healers. Also weather 2 or 3 healing make sure the Disc priest is smiting at the start, it's free damage. I can check you pallies and priest so here goes:

Prot Pally
1) Gems should be yellow - mastery, blue - mastery+stam and red - mastery+parry OR all mastery.
2) Reforging is non existent, get more mastery at the cost of expertise and hit
3) Spec is terrible, use this one http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZGMhsRddoRucbG
4) No glyphs at all
5) Start using SotR when 3 HoPo is up, it'll vastly increase his DPS (which right now is way too low)

Holy Pally
1) Unglyph LoD for this fight
That's all I got, seems in order. Make sure to take red and blue buff (letting the other healer do green) and carry heals. Save CDs for the last minute and then spam HR non stop with blue

Priest
1) If you 2 healing it stay holy so that there's more benefit from green
2) If going disc then get Atonement and smite for the first minute of the fight, it helps on DPS a lot.

But your primary problem is DPS doing way less than what they should in that gear. With their gear they're all capable of at least 25k, some upwards of 30 and yet they're being beaten by tanks and dropping to below 20k a lot. I honestly don't know how this is happening but they need to play way better, even if you kill Ultrax you'll wipe on Gunship for months. Ask for individual help on the class forums and just... focus more?

no a holy priest should get red especially with a resto shaman.

[Gandilf]

We had some of the same issues for the fight the first couple of time.

We went with a 2 healer approach since weren't even close for the dps mark with 3 healers.

After people got the hang of when to hit the button and not it all went okay and we don't wipe at all anymore.

How ever! If people press the button at 5-sec to go they loose ALOT of dps when they are just standing there in the normal realm and not in shadow realm. I always try to get to 2-1 sec before hitting the button and this give me quit a bit more DPS overall and I'm usually the one that makes the other tank look bad. I could proberbly do even better but I'm at 19-20k as tank (DK) while the other (Druid) is at around 13k.

So a good thing is to make sure people don't hit the botton too fast and wait 1-2 sec. This is more important for casters than melee since most of our abilities are instant.