Virginia: Ultrasound required before abortion

[Deleted]

It's retarded.

[Selkhet]

Whenever I read these threads I always worry of the alarming amount of people who seem to tirelessly strive to hold jurisdiction over the wombs of complete strangers, simply because they are women and can procreate. The Anti-Choice crowd is always keen to point out that beyond legal law there is rarely a set line between when a foetus becomes an unborn baby, and yet they're very willing to forget the old "Every sperm is sacred" motto.

Thank you. This is awesome. I have one too.



The people who deny women abortions are the same people who give a hard time for women who don't want to have children or want to sterelize themselves. Anti-choicers are often agains birth control too. What these people really want is to women to remain abstinent and available, until THEY decide they want them to have children.

It's all about controlling women. The rest are just excuses.

[Shrain]

My sister was going to have an abortion, but the doctor asked if she wanted to see the ultrasound first, and she did. After seeing it, she didn't go through with the abortion. .... You would think this story is going into, "Now she has a happy and wonderful life and I am so glad she didn't!" - but it isn't. Her baby is beautiful, amazing, simply precious. ... But my sister is still a drug abuser, and my parents won't let her give the child up as they are more attached to the baby then my own damn sister. This poor girl is going to grow up with a mother who is a monster of a human being. YES I wish she had an abortion. Not because I wanted this baby to die, but because this baby deserves so much better then what she is given but will instead have to grow up with her cracked out mother.

[Bakis]

It's all about controlling women. The rest are just excuses.

Indeed and that is a read thread in Islam as well as Christianity. In fact I dont view pro-lifers any different from the royal house in Saudi Arabia.
None of them are for freedom for women.

[ArMeD_SuRvIvOr]

A seed isn't a tree.
An egg isn't a chicken.
A fetus isn't a person.

[Purlina]

Because the bill assumes that the person getting the abortion doesn't already understand the risk, or what they're giving up. That's not the government's job. I'll admit, I did use poor choice of words about imposing "personal opinion".

You can inform them of the risks without an ultrasound. And what kind of person doesn't know what they are giving up.

Of course they know, it's not like they think babies come from storks...

All this law would do is toy with the emotions of people who want an abortion.

[Deleted]

Two things:

The OP said that the unborn child would gain legal rights. Interesting. And how would it enforce those rights? It can't. So that's a silly idea in the first place, the Government may as well say 'we have the rights to choose what you do with your unborn child'

And secondly, it is a medical fact (supported by medical law) that you are more likely to suffer ill health or be at risk of harm by being pregnant than by not being pregnant.

So by default the last part of the criteria is met by anyone who is pregnant.

[Burpie]

I think the argument is that if u feel like shit about something your doing, maybe your not doing the right thing

But who are they to decide what "the right thing" is in the place of these women?

Anyway, to me this seems pointless and waste of money and time.
I hope my country doesn't introduce anything alike.

[Ghostie]

We could put the shoe on the other foot and vote that all men have to take salt peter or the medical equivilant so they lose sexual desire until they're ready to reproduce. I don't think that would go over very well either and men would be hollering 'my body, my rights!' It's not for the religious right to decide, it's for the individual and ideally their partner to make decisions, and ultimately it's the woman's choice and her choice alone.

Adoption is not a viable option, lots of abuse in that system and lots of kids in there, its an abusive for profit business run by the social service industry. (generalizing here, but it is the case)

[Lolita]

Personally, I would never get an abortion, but I see nothing wrong with other women choosing to have one. Too many people in this country think their opinion should be law. Well, guess what? Not everyone holds the same opinion as you. What another woman decides to do with her body is none of you business.

[Powerogue]

perfectly reasonable, this sort of decision should not be taken lightly.

plus this'd allow them to see the stage of growth the kid is in, since I'm pretty sure in most places you can't abort the kid after x months through the pregnancy.

[gneugen]

Ah but what of those who are born with defects? Should their life be thrown away as well. They are incapable of caring for themselves. Babies are born all the time that will need a "host" to live for their entire lives. Then the process repeats itself at around age 60+

There's a reason the death rate for children dropped dramatically, its because many babies who would not live do.

The great thing about anti-abortionists is that the arguments never change -- mainly because they stop listening when their tired old "reasoning" gets shut down yet again.

The argument for/against abortion is not one of the unpredictable. It's a matter of decision making, planning 8-9 months in advance. Forget the fact that someone is pregnant, and just ask them "do you want to give birth to a child?" If their answer is no, why is it suddenly different that they are 2-4 weeks pregnant? It's not a person in there, it's the probability that in 9 months it will be a person. Inevitable retort: "if they're planning, they should plan to not have sex." Of course. In an ideal world, that would happen. This world isn't ideal though, and you shouldn't take away someone's decision making power on the emotional guilt YOU feel that something in their womb is already a human. It isn't a human, it's a growth of their body.

Once we can predict birth defects, people will add that into the decision making process as well. "I don't want to give birth to a mentally retarded human that I will need to take care of for X years." It is selfish, but so are plenty of things and I'd much rather someone make this choice ahead of time than create a human they don't give a shit about. That's far more destructive to this world than the illusion of decaying morality you seem to see.

[Lolita]

Don't get pregnant...the exception being rape

There are times that birth control fail, or the guy is a douchebag and keeps going after the condom breaks. What then?

[Shrain]

There are times that birth control fail, or the guy is a douchebag and keeps going after the condom breaks. What then?

Or the two involved are on drugs/have been drinking and neglect to think of either.

[Symphonic]

Abortion simply shouldn't be something EVER CONSIDERED unless it was from a rape (Even then, considered, not always aborted - but can you imagine the worst moment in your life and carrying a baby that looks just like him bringing up those experiences every day? Even if carried through and given up for adoption, which is ideal, the mother could be a basket case due to thinking about the terrible rape all through her pregnancy.). Another consideration is if the baby is going to die due to defects not allowing it to live past birth. Instead of stillborn one may consider aborting. And finally, if the life of the mother is in jeopardy - may die because she is pregnant or because she may die giving birth - this is another consideration for abortion. Aside from those 3 things (And even those 3 things it is still a consideration not "it's ok to abort just do it!") there is absolutely no reason why people should be aborting. If you don't want a child, use birth control. if you still get pregnant while using contraceptives, then start looking for a family that would love a child and carry it through birth. My mother was adopted hours after she was born. My grandparents couldn't have kids, and someone was kind enough not to abort my mother and give her up for adoption literally moments after she was born.

[Deleted]

Absolutely pathetic.

So why are all these guys getting blown up in Iraq and Afghanistan for if it's not to preserve freedoms and freedom of choice etc?

Because some people see the unborn child as a human being with value. To those with that perspective is like saying why can't i kill my baby after a few weeks of it being born because now I'm really inconvenienced? Afterall, we've been to war to have the freedom of choice to kill unborn / born babies... If you value the unborn as a life, you wouldn't even consider it a choice. However,if you don't think it's a life, then yes, it's about "choice".
Current laws are in place if you kill a pregnant woman you will be charged with the murder of 2 lives. So on one hand, the law recognizes it as a human life, but if the woman "chooses" to abort the baby, it's no longer murder. That's what I would call absolutely pathetic.

[Purlina]

if you still get pregnant while using contraceptives, then start looking for a family that would love a child and carry it through birth. My mother was adopted hours after she was born. My grandparents couldn't have kids, and someone was kind enough not to abort my mother and give her up for adoption literally moments after she was born.

Not all children get adopted into a happy home, there are just not enough willing families. (That qualify)

Many children end up getting abused.

[Symphonic]

Not all children get adopted into a happy home, there are just not enough willing families.

Many children end up getting abused.

I know many churches have programs to help find happy families. I know in my church there are family services which help find the right family for a child. My brother had two sons who got adopted into a LOVELY family a couple years ago. They still know me as their uncle, my parents as grandparents, and we occasionally get to see them. My brother just couldn't take care of them (He can't hold a job, etc... kind of chemically imbalanced). There are good programs to find willing and happy families who will not abuse them.

[Ghostie]

Slightly off-topic, but this button I saw the other day made me laugh. Somewhat applicable to this thread, I think.

Awesome. That'll give them something to think about.

[Purlina]

I know many churches have programs to help find happy families. I know in my church there are family services which help find the right family for a child. My brother had two sons who got adopted into a LOVELY family a couple years ago. They still know me as their uncle, my parents as grandparents, and we occasionally get to see them. My brother just couldn't take care of them (He can't hold a job, etc... kind of chemically imbalanced). There are good programs to find willing and happy families who will not abuse them.

I know that there are good families that adopt, but there just isn't enough for every child...