[Megathread] DotA 2

[Jester Joe]

I think this would be a good point to just stop replying to LiiLo all together. Nothing good is going to come out of continuing this discussion.

Do you have a source for 4.7k MMR being in the top 95%? 4.7k seems a little bit too low for such a high percentile. I know there was a post with the breakdowns from Valve before Ranked was released, but I'd be interested in seeing how things breakdown in Ranked mode.

I'd be willing to bet 4.7k isn't "trench" and "trash" like someone's making it sound at least. Heck, next time I actually play Dota and do ranked finally, I'll let you guys know where I end up so you can know where trash ranking is.

Funny though how those who fling around "trash" and "low rankings" never reveal their own though.

[Sorcereria]

I really cannot fathom how people can be so bad at this game that they can't even play Storm

Idk but for me being comfortable with storm took more or less 30 games, that is feeling comfortable with comboing, disjointing and having general mana knowledge with map control. Granted I played on a 15-22fps PC @ 640*480 at work and I still consider myself quite new to dota, despite having now around 3k games on different accounts. It might have something to do that the moment I started to learn/play storm I had 9 month break from PLAYING anything.

#wontforgotmyhurtingfingers after 30min

The learning curve on dota 2 was intense since the only games I played in past 15 years was CS competitivly -> WoW in top 25 -> Dota 2 casually.

[StrawberryZebra]

I'd be willing to bet 4.7k isn't "trench" and "trash" like someone's making it sound at least. Heck, next time I actually play Dota and do ranked finally, I'll let you guys know where I end up so you can know where trash ranking is.

Funny though how those who fling around "trash" and "low rankings" never reveal their own though.

I'd be willing to bet if not my house then at least a couple of bricks and maybe even a window or two that its a long ways from being "trash" too. But on the other hand, I don't think it's going to be as high as the 95th percentile. Probably at the higher end of the scale, but not that high. It would certainly be nice to have some numbers on it though, or perhaps even a graph if people are feeling adventurous.

[Drunkenvalley]

Storm is a hero where I still don't feel comfortable with managing his mana. It's a lot different from other heroes.

[Longview]

I'd be willing to bet if not my house then at least a couple of bricks and maybe even a window or two that its a long ways from being "trash" too. But on the other hand, I don't think it's going to be as high as the 95th percentile. Probably at the higher end of the scale, but not that high. It would certainly be nice to have some numbers on it though, or perhaps even a graph if people are feeling adventurous.

here's from before ranked was introduced:
5% 1100
10% 1500
25% 2000
50% 2250
75% 2731
90% 3200
95% 3900
99% 4100

those are all the official numbers that exist. keep in mind that it is a zero-sum system, meaning that the average would stay the same regardless (in order for you to gain MMR, someone else has to lose MMR). the actual ranked numbers are probably a bit higher than these are, but i think you're underestimating just how many people there are around 2-3k MMR.

also stop insulting each other thank you

[Jester Joe]

Storm is a hero where I still don't feel comfortable with managing his mana. It's a lot different from other heroes.

It's also one of those heroes that after I see someone zoom from one lane to another to gank someone I'll be like "How do they still have mana after ulting there".

also stop insulting each other thank you

You smell....good.

I couldn't help it sorry.

[Sorcereria]

--- Storm Spirit ---
Total Damage Done: 20001

--- Zeus ---
Total Damage Done: 19734

Game 3 EG vs VG

For most of the game, zeus was faaar faar ahead in dmg done to heroes, and they barely used ulti to scout. I think it happened ONCE.

[LiiLoSNK]

I think this would be a good point to just stop replying to LiiLo all together. Nothing good is going to come out of continuing this discussion.

I'm just waiting for anyone to justify not reporting someone who plays so bad that it ruins the game. Do you know how bad you have to play to make a game unwinnable all by yourself? With the exclusion of hermanni, you all got angry because you chose to take my meaning of "terrible people" as "people who make any mistakes", and now you are purposely choosing to continue that line of thinking for reasons unknown.

Also, 4.7 is still probably top 91-95% if you count the countless low rating smurfs.

@jester joe: wait so how do you get to have an opinion on what trench is if you don't even play ranked? things like this are why it's hard for me to ever take you seriously. when you have no idea about something, you still feel the need to provide input lol.. in my opinion 4.7k is definitely trench. below 5k if not 5.2k is probably trench since that's about when you start seeing more semi pro/pros in queue.

@longview

That used to be right, but those numbers are from almost 2 years ago before 5k even existed. at this point, 5k is actually common enough to the point where you have to be 5.7k to even show up on the american leaderboards and 6.1k for the euroboards . 4k today is like 3k by those numbers

[Longview]

@longview

That used to be right, but those numbers are from almost 2 years ago before 5k even existed. at this point, 5k is actually common enough to the point where you have to be 5.7k to even show up on the american leaderboards and 6.1k for the euroboards . 4k today is like 3k by those numbers

what do you mean "before 5k even existed"?

also, given over 10 million active players, the 99th percentile would be made up by like 100k players. the leaderboards are top 200, which would be what? top 0.0001%?

the numbers are obviously not accurate, but i really don't think the top 1% are over 5k. either way it is pointless to argue because none of us have access to actual official numbers.

[LiiLoSNK]

what do you mean "before 5k even existed"?

also, given over 10 million active players, the 99th percentile would be made up by like 100k players. the leaderboards are top 200, which would be what? top 0.0001%?

the numbers are obviously not accurate, but i really don't think the top 1% are over 5k. either way it is pointless to argue because none of us have access to actual official numbers.

When those figures were announced, nobody was over 5k rating because the highest it would spit you out was like high 4000s. Nobody was 5, let alone 6k-7k. Using those old numbers after the ratings have actually been diluted over the past few years, doesnt make much sense. But yea there's no way to really know now. Also, I'm the one who agreed in that 4.7k is at least 95%.

[Lysah]

what do you mean "before 5k even existed"?

also, given over 10 million active players, the 99th percentile would be made up by like 100k players. the leaderboards are top 200, which would be what? top 0.0001%?

the numbers are obviously not accurate, but i really don't think the top 1% are over 5k. either way it is pointless to argue because none of us have access to actual official numbers.

I don't think it's pointless to argue, I mean, in my opinion he kind of kneecapped his own argument bringing up leaderboards. If 5650 can get you in the top 200 NA players, and Valve isn't lying about their 10+ million unique players, then 5k is DEFINITELY top 99%. You could create a pretty simple bell curve graph and make a fairly reasonable estimation of where players fall, given the data we know (top 200 player MMR/total accounts). I'd put money on 3500 putting you in the top 80-85%, 4500 putting you in the top 99%.

[LiiLoSNK]

I don't think it's pointless to argue, I mean, in my opinion he kind of kneecapped his own argument bringing up leaderboards. If 5650 can get you in the top 200 NA players, and Valve isn't lying about their 10+ million unique players, then 5k is DEFINITELY top 99%. You could create a pretty simple bell curve graph and make a fairly reasonable estimation of where players fall, given the data we know (top 200 player MMR/total accounts). I'd put money on 3500 putting you in the top 80-85%, 4500 putting you in the top 99%.

Illiteracy must have kneecapped your brain. Go back and show me where I said 4.7k was not 95%. Strawberry said it wasn't, I said it was.

[Jester Joe]

@jester joe: wait so how do you get to have an opinion on what trench is if you don't even play ranked? things like this are why it's hard for me to ever take you seriously. when you have no idea about something, you still feel the need to provide input lol.. in my opinion 4.7k is definitely trench. below 5k if not 5.2k is probably trench since that's about when you start seeing more semi pro/pros in queue.

I don't get how you view a video game like a college degree or something. I can easily look up what others consider "trench", what high and low rankings are, and come to my own conclusion, but if your fantasy world is anything below pro/semi pro is trash/trench, then there's obviously no point in discussing this because you have a very, VERY narrow view on rankings.

That would be like saying in Hearthstone anyone whos rank 1 or 2 is trash because they're not even legend yet.

Illiteracy must have kneecapped your brain. Go back and show me where I said 4.7k was not 95%. Strawberry said it wasn't, I said it was.

I don't see them saying anywhere in that that you specifically claimed 4.7k wasn't. But if that high of a percentage isn't good enough for you to be considered out of "Trench", then what do you think people are going to take that as?

[LiiLoSNK]

A college degree what lol? Every time you talk, you are making less sense to me. I was pointing out the irony in you trying to label what you consider as trench and THEN going on to say that you don't even play ranked. That'd be like a woman saying "oh yeah giving child birth is easy", while she herself had never given birth. You have no personal experience. You don't think that's ironic at all? you saying "but I can go research what other people call trench" also means nothing, because everyone's going to have a different opinion of trench.

My definition of trench is the middle ground between newest and best players. You know, like some sort of... Trench? When you eventually climb through the middle ground, you arrive on the other side where you start seeing people making less mistakes, maximizing farm, buying the right items. Not every game ofc, but more frequently. Trench is where you fine-tune your skills.

You're the ignoramus who keeps saying trench/trash as if the 2 were synonymous. I think of it as the "improvement" tier, whereas you, someone who has no idea what it even is and doesn't even play it, is calling it the trash tier. Maybe your trench (or your imagination on what a trench could be, since you don't play) is different than my trench? Would it be safe to assume there are different levels of trenches?

[Jester Joe]

A college degree what lol? Every time you talk, you are making less sense to me. I was pointing out the irony in you trying to label what you consider as trench and THEN going on to say that you don't even play ranked. You have no personal experience. You don't think that's ironic at all? you saying "but I can go research what other people call trench" also means nothing, because everyone's going to have a different opinion of trench.

My definition of trench is the middle ground between newest and best players. You know, like some sort of... Trench? When you eventually climb through the middle ground, you arrive on the other side where you start seeing people making less mistakes, maximizing farm, buying the right items. Not every game ofc, but more frequently. Trench is where you fine-tune your skills.

You're the ignoramus who keeps saying trench/trash as if the 2 were synonymous. I think of it as the "improvement" tier, whereas you, someone who has no idea what it even is and doesn't even play it, is calling it the trash tier. Maybe your trench (or your imagination on what a trench could be, since you don't play) is different than my trench?

I don't get why you find it so hard to understand. I don't need to play ranked to tell where the majority of the players are and what's considered higher skilled and lower skilled, it's not like when you queue into the match they tell you "Hey, pros play at this level!"

And I don't know, maybe because you're the first person I've ever heard say "Well, trench isn't really trash", so perhaps you're the one using the wrong definition? Go look around, I'd be willing to bet a majority of the time someone brings up being "in the trench", they'll continue to say "I'm stuck with morons and scrubs". Just because you decided to invent saying "well, to ME trench is all this here" and then act like everyone should consider that trench the universal trench doesn't make you suddenly right.

What IS ironic though, is you claim I'm making less sense, yet you're backtracking on trench to go "Well, after several posts on this topic I'll actually clarify what I considered trench, because it obviously should of been understood even though no one else understood. That must be all your faults, not mine for clarifying"

[LiiLoSNK]

What IS ironic though, is you claim I'm making less sense, yet you're backtracking on trench to go "Well, after several posts on this topic I'll actually clarify what I considered trench, because it obviously should of been understood even though no one else understood. That must be all your faults, not mine for clarifying"

Just googled "what is trench tier dota"

I see people saying anywhere from 2k to 4.8k. So yea looks like you're wrong again. Tons of people are gonna think they're in trench tier depending on how often other people are making mistakes. i havent backtracked a single thing lol. you're just constantly putting words in my mouth.

having the person who doesnt even play decide the definition of trench. absolutely brilliant.

[Jester Joe]

Just googled "what is trench tier dota"

I see people saying anywhere from 2k to 4.8k. So yea looks like you're wrong again. Tons of people are gonna think they're in trench tier depending on how often other people are making mistakes. i havent backtracked a single thing lol. you're just constantly putting words in my mouth.

Because you're totally not putting words in my mouth. Because I totally claimed "Here, THIS bracket RIGHT here is trench, and NO ONE IN THE WORLD would EVER say otherwise".

Welp, was mediocre while it lasted.

Before you go on some rant again also, yes, some people are going to say 4.8k, some people are probably even going to say 5k, that doesn't suddenly make it the majority's opinion. Although you did prove my point, trench isn't somewhere that's considered a "good" area.

having the person who doesnt even play decide the definition of trench. absolutely brilliant.

The real brilliant thing here? You just used my exact same way of finding out to try to prove your point. So either it's you
A) Admit that someone who doesn't play ranked can still give an opinion based on some research and observation
or
B) Claim that a quick google search proves nothing.

[LiiLoSNK]

Done with you. Talking to someone who doesn't play doesn't make sense to me, and it's more sad than fun at this point.

[Jester Joe]

Done with you. Talking to someone who doesn't play doesn't make sense to me, and it's more sad than fun at this point.

If that's what your logic resorts to.

I mean, I'm sure those sports announcers/analyzers have to play to give their opinions, amiright?

[LiiLoSNK]

If that's what your logic resorts to.

I mean, I'm sure those sports announcers/analyzers have to play to give their opinions, amiright?

You sound very skilled and well knowledge enough about dota for me to respect your opinion, im just bored of this topic because i already know im right.