[OFFICIAL] MoP Beta Hunter Information

[Marxman]

Since I can't actually post links on these forums yet, you can check the numbers I and another hunter got in tonight's raid testing by going to World of Logs> Realms > US > US-Ysera > Midwinter. I feel like hunters are in a really good place now, though I expect we might still be a little *too* good (as in I would not be surprised if we were nerfed further). Of course, most of these fights cater well to hunter mechanics.

That's surprising. I knew Simcraft was somewhat misleading a lot of the time, but it's surprising to hear that the lowest Simcraft class is probably still slightly overpowered. I suspected Hunters were about right, maybe a tiny tiny bit too low right now. Didn't expect that we were still too good...

[Renley]

That's surprising. I knew Simcraft was somewhat misleading a lot of the time, but it's surprising to hear that the lowest Simcraft class is probably still slightly overpowered. I suspected Hunters were about right, maybe a tiny tiny bit too low right now. Didn't expect that we were still too good...

Same, very surprising. I thought BM would have been ahead, but that nerf to Frenzy might have been hard hitting, especially since Focus Fire still might not be worth using.

[Truefire]

Since I can't actually post links on these forums yet, you can check the numbers I and another hunter got in tonight's raid testing by going to World of Logs> Realms > US > US-Ysera > Midwinter. I feel like hunters are in a really good place now, though I expect we might still be a little *too* good (as in I would not be surprised if we were nerfed further). Of course, most of these fights cater well to hunter mechanics.

I also had very similar results to kenny but I don't believe we're 'too' good. I think this is exactly where we need to be, a little bit ahead on single target while still being competitive when the need to cleave arises. I'm very happy with the fact that we also have 2 viable specs now. BM is slightly ahead on single target while survival is the clear favorite for multi dot purposes.

[Deadly Serious]

Hunters look like they're going to be a pretty sweet class to play next expansion. I hope they don't nerf us down like they usually do or at least nerf mages and rogues >.<

[Dch48]

Those numbers for SV are somewhat skewed by the fact that Improved Serpent is still bugged and doing twice as much damage as it should.

Also, the new stable bug is even worse than before. Now the first 5 slots are unlocked, but if you put a pet in one, you can't bring it back out. Or any other pet for that matter.

[Zeherah]

For what it's worth, I think the simc hunter module is probably one of the ones that's probably the most correct technical implementation right now. Lokrick and I have been comparing our numbers very thoroughly between our two tools and it helped us a lot in spotting various inconsistencies. The gear and action lists used by the hunter profile aren't super optimized yet though, gahddo has been working on that. So I think the combination of not having an optimized profile and other classes possibly being less debugged yet may be leading to hunters showing up low relative to other classes.

Also, imp sting is not doing twice as much, it's just doing slightly more than expected (it's using the formula from before the most recent serpent sting nerf). The only way it would count as doing twice as much is if it's not intended to benefit from the 100% damage bonus from the improved serpent sting talent, but I haven't seen a statement on that.

FYI, the beta version of the femaledwarf site is now available for public use at beta.femaledwarf.com

[Schwebels]

yay! zeherah you're the best, ive been waitin for a beta build from you

[Deleted]

Since I can't actually post links on these forums yet, you can check the numbers I and another hunter got in tonight's raid testing by going to World of Logs> Realms > US > US-Ysera > Midwinter. I feel like hunters are in a really good place now, though I expect we might still be a little *too* good (as in I would not be surprised if we were nerfed further). Of course, most of these fights cater well to hunter mechanics.

I wonder if the results where still as good without the bugged imp. sting and the scaled up vial of shadows

[Truefire]

I wonder if the results where still as good without the bugged imp. sting and the scaled up vial of shadows

I was not using vial or any other old trinkets and my results were almost identical to his.

[Deleted]

vial did 17k(34k crits) on his logs compared to 14k(28k crits) on live. thats not huge.
ss only accounted for 11.5k dps he would probably lose 1k-2.5k dps im too lazy to check it out mathematically, but ild expect the nerf to account for probably around ~20%

[Dracodraco]

I never said I was amazing, but my fail rate at any boss is nearly 0%. Sometimes doing what you are supposed to do is better than having a good score on epeenbot. Rankings and scores in DS are all about doing the most aoe or ignoring the duties you are assigned to as a dps, if you take pride in that sure, I personally wouldn't be. For someone that started raiding at end of T11 - I did fine, I'll keep improving and becoming a better hunter, like I've doing for the past year.

Sure hunters weren't that good as a class, but they weren't attrociously bad. Legendaries and better gear scaling created the gap.

Here's the thing, that just proves what I said. If you're one of the people who do not fail, then obviously, if you do as good dps as the other players in your guild, you'll have a spot. But in a top end guild, where you can expect everyone to perform as well as you do, what do you take?
The non-failing mage doing 50K.
Or
The non-failing hunter doing 40K.
You take the mage, because he's got higher DPS and won't be a burden.

As for "rankings and scores in DS are all about AOE/ignoring the duties", please oh please tell me what duties there are to ignore in DS, and where AOE is not actually how you're supposed to get through the fights?
I mean... You have nothing to do on morchok but soak crystals. Looking at your logs on the other hand, in the past 8 weeks, you've soaked 2, 1, 0, 5, 1, 1, 0, 4 crystals. So two out of eight weeks where you didn't just ignore your "duties".
Zon'ozz, you need to make sure to kill the adds (which you neglected once during the past month).
Yorsahj is *dependant* on your raid having enough AOE to kill the adds while still keeping up with the enrage timer (or, was, when it was hard). If you don't aoe like you've got a combustion hidden up your ass on that fight, you're failing.
Hagara, dependant on breaking the ice tombs with AOE so you get more uptime on the boss for DPS, no real other way to "cheese" it.
Ultrax can't be cheesed apart from begging for DI/tricks :<.
Blackhorn, the most optimal way to kill shit is to have cleave classes on the melee adds, and singletarget classes on the drakes. You wouldn't gain anything from trying to cleave 2 targets anyway, which means unless you're keeping up 4 melee adds at once, you won't gain any cheesy dps there (and even then, everyone else would have to stop dpsing in order for the adds to stay alive while you smash them).
Spine, you have to kill off the bloods or they'll overrun you in the end. Only when you get to the last plate do they start to become an issue. There are hunters that just gets to aoe a pack of 100 bloods, but that's not really an issue with performance, that's the guild setting them up for win. Main priority is to keep the bloods dead, swab them up with an amalg on roll, and boom, 20 bloods gone from the fight you won't have to deal with later.
Madness, how can you even whore on that fight? Keeping adds alive and serpent sting/explosive trap rolling for spellweave procs are better singletarget damage than ignoring the adds completly. Once again, you're supposed to be boosting your DPS through AOE/Dots/cheesing.

So that sums up:
Morchok and Zon'ozz where you can ignore duties.
Spine where you are able to AOE bloods (at the risk of your entire raid dying and wiping due to explosion damage).

And just fyi - you can actually, you know, perform well and *not* fail at the same time . That comment reminds me of someone from WOTLK on LK hc - "I think we should all stop dpsing 5 seconds before the second defile so everyone can focus on moving out". Just... Wat. If you don't have enough brain to keep up your dps while performing, you've got nothing to do in HC raids ;s.

(and being below everyone due to Legendaries and better gear scaling = attrociously bad. That's the whole point. If everyone else are better due to gear, then that means that hunters were the worst = bad).

[TJ]

Hunter's were god awful at the start of Dragon Soul untill they buffed us about 3 months in, if you were a hunter in a progression guild you were benched for 90% of Dragon Soul.

And in any progression oriented guild, and in these guilds you bring the player and the class. If these numbers are true, hunters will be benched the majority of the first tier because their damage just isn't there.

We were awful yes, but to say if you were in a progression guild you were benched is wrong (unless you mean top 50 or something). I raided progression on my Hunter (up to Spine) and we finished world 130 or so, obviously as Draco said, we didn't have any legendary casters to steal my spot so that was a factor as well but I still did alright. Managed 40k on my first Ultraxion kill (or just below, I can't remember). Had to change for Spine obviously and I played a Paladin for that :>

But yeah, wouldn't be surprised if Hunters are crap at the start of the expac. But I actually think Blizzard will fix it this time because they don't want a repeat of Cata. I won't be raiding to see it, though :<

[Deleted]

aoe'ing bloods before the parasite spawned can easily sum up to 10-15k dps over the whole fight. your dmg to a tentatcle should also be higher (with ss/mark) than to blisterings. same about the adds in p2.
about the other bosses... its obviously a huuuuge boost to ignore tentacles/blobs on yor/zon.

but seriously, im happy i play in descent guild where the officers check the logs even during farmraids and all those burdens that cheese their dmg will be sat during progression.

We were awful yes, but to say if you were in a progression guild you were benched is wrong

i really dont know if you played in a top 100 world or top 100 world 25m. if you played in an healthy overall top 100 25m guild where your casters pretty much all got legendaries through various alt raids and your guild aimed for world firsts you should have been benched. i played in a world 300 guild back then and my dmg was okayish. i couldnt not top some casters with legendaries and rogues were just rediculous. but waht bugged me the most was the huge amount of dmg taken on yor/zon/ultrax leading into several times brezzes were neccessary. its just annoying when youre subpar in dmg (with ultraxion/mor/hagara being the obv exceptions) and the first to die whenever burstraiddmg occured.
this obviously only applies to 25m. boss abilities in 10m heroic raiding mostly hit like 25m abilities after the 30%nerf .

[Dracodraco]

aoe'ing bloods before the parasite spawned can easily sum up to 10-15k dps over the whole fight. your dmg to a tentatcle should also be higher (with ss/mark) than to blisterings. same about the adds in p2.
about the other bosses... its obviously a huuuuge boost to ignore tentacles/blobs on yor/zon.

but seriously, im happy i play in descent guild where the officers check the logs even during farmraids and all those burdens that cheese their dmg will be sat during progression.

The spellweave hits the corruption, and the arm tentacle, so as long as your tanks aren't tanking them in china, then dotting them up to get spellweave rolling is more than acceptable .
Blisterings can't be AOE'd, so not sure what you're saying there. If you somehow managed to do more dmg to the blisterings than the corruption, something went horribly horribly wrong.
Ignoring the globules on Yorsahj is nothing more than a quality of life improvement, it won't actually dip your DPS as a hunter (assuming that you get the correct debuffs like 8% spell dmg up on it, of course), as our entire ramp up is basicly "hunters mark when too far away to dps, serpent sting, hammer away".
and yes, ignoring tentacles on Zon'ozz will improve your DPS vastly for a singletarget class. That has nothing to do with any of the other fights though, and it's easy to see if someone cheesed on Zon'ozz .
Fact still remains, hunters *were* awful before we were buffed, and TJ, even if my guild's only top 100, we avoided hunters as much as we could - we had them in for Ultraxion, but that was only because we needed 13 classes that could reliably soak, and because it was the one fight where hunters weren't actually worse than other classes because the entire mechanic was "stand and nuke" with no ways of cheesing it, like multidotting / throwing in every burst CD aviable during an expose phase, etc.
I think we had like... Nine or ten staffs by the time we hit ultraxion HC (we got a pair the week we killed him).

[TJ]

Sorry I meant 130 25man, I ignore 10 man rankings. As I said, we didn't have the casters to replace me but we still got the bosses down. There's no denying Hunters were crap, but you could still take them for the first 6 as a progression guild (normal progression guild not world first contenders).

[Deleted]

we keep the bloods as far away as possible since they die in 2 globals. when 10 casters start to dot/aoe them.
blisterings cannot be aoed but avoided. my dps to the wing/hand is usually higher than to the blisterings due to ramp up time.

Sorry I meant 130 25man, I ignore 10 man rankings. As I said, we didn't have the casters to replace me but we still got the bosses down. There's no denying Hunters were crap, but you could still take them for the first 6 as a progression guild (normal progression guild not world first contenders).

ya thats what i expected. i was brought too as i was in the same ranking as you. but i wouldnt have brought a hunter if i could have chosen. the amount of brezzes due to hunter squishiness was just hilarious. also we hit a wall on zon where more dot casters (with or without legendaries) would have saved us at least 6 raidevenings. same about blackhorn and theres obv better classes for spine burst than hunters (although we are not that bad when performed correctly yet not optimal)

[malevolant]

Sorry I meant 130 25man, I ignore 10 man rankings. As I said, we didn't have the casters to replace me but we still got the bosses down. There's no denying Hunters were crap, but you could still take them for the first 6 as a progression guild (normal progression guild not world first contenders).

If they could have sat you, they would have. Once again blizzard overshoots their nerfs for the hunter class.

[Deleted]

well see once it goes live. i experienced very high (sv) hunter dmg in our beta raids yesterday similar to the hunter posting a page ago. only locks being quite ahead. and i payed like no attention to my abilities just getting to know the encounters.

[Deleted]

noticed a little bug, wondering if i was alone, when i use murder of crow in a duel, those little birds even after the duel ends keep hitting my target, and kill it.
this is pretty fun =D

and the other thing i noticed with murder of crow, is that event if your target is below 20% HP, the cooldown isn't reduce by 60sec as the tooltips says it.

[Dracodraco]

noticed a little bug, wondering if i was alone, when i use murder of crow in a duel, those little birds even after the duel ends keep hitting my target, and kill it.
this is pretty fun =D

and the other thing i noticed with murder of crow, is that event if your target is below 20% HP, the cooldown isn't reduce by 60sec as the tooltips says it.

I don't think the second part is a bug. It'll always have a 2 min cooldown, but if you cast it on a target below 20%, it'll shave off 1 minute? Or is that not how it's worked untill now.