Sin'dorei: Making my Voice Heard

[Sal the Shieldhog]

I posted this on the WoW forums, after discussing this in Mumble and Gchat all day/night:

Hey all. Been discussing this a lot tonight. Figured I'd make a giant thread. I'd really appreciate some feedback on some of my ideas.

So, this thread is about us Sin'dorei, our lore, our city, our faction, and our faction leader. Before anyone begins complaining, yes I know more than half of Burning Crusade was dedicated to Blood Elves and our story. However, that was nearly what? 4? 5 years ago? We've had barely 3 updates as a race since then (Lor'themar and Halduron's model updates, and a small piece of the Quel'delar chain).

To start with, we need an actual faction leader. Yes, Lor'themar is the leader. But he isn't technically the leader, per see. See, he was made Regent Lord by Kael'thas, basically ruling in the Prince's absence. Now that Kael'thas has been dead (For almost a half decade, one might add), it means the Sin'dorei are basically left without a head of state. Sure, Lor'themar has been a just leader, but his position was only meant to be temporary. Either push to make him king (Like it's been hinted at in some quests and lore), or reconstruct the Convocation of Silvermoon to rule jointly.

Secondly, rebuild Silvermoon and the Isle of Quel'danas for the Sunwell's sake. I understand wanting to keep it as a reminder of the dead, but Arthas is dead and, so far as anyone who wasn't at the Frozen Throne knows, there is no Lich King. There is no need for the reminder of that pain. If you can regrow the Plaguelands (Read: PLAGUElands), the it shouldn't be much harder to fix that strip running through the middle of our nation. Just get a bunch of druids, paladins, and priests, do a ritual, heal the land. Simple, easy fix.

Silvermoon needs to be rebuilt, or at least partly. You can't honestly say that no reparations have begun in the 10+ years half the cities been destroyed for. It's not even like it's a small section; It's half the Light-forsaken city!

Thirdly, we NEED lore updates. We've had hardly any since Burning Crusade. And our faction leader's story wasn't even a new one, it was a story from a Blizzard contest with a few words and sentences changed around. I know there are hardly any Sin'dorei left, and that Garrosh and Sylvanas are spreading them thin, but it doesn't show any of that in-game, or anywhere else for that matter. It's like you guys just decided to abandon both of the Burning Crusade races.

Here's an idea me and a few friends came up with: Redo the starting area for Mists of Pandaria like you did for a few races in Cataclysm. I mean, fix Silvermoon up a bit, have the new players clean up the remaining Scourge, maybe have more involvement with the High Elves and the Amani/Zandalari trolls (Perhaps tie it in with the Zandalari chain that is in Pandaria *cough*cough*).

I may get a small uproar with this, but it's necessary too: We no longer rely upon demonic magic to, ahem, "get a fix," so why are our eyes still glowing with demonic corruption? You'd think after 5 years, the Sunwell (Now a fountain of Holy and Arcane energy, R.I.P. Muru) would've purified them a bit. You could even use the Sunwell as a way to bring the High and Blood Elves closer as a people and begin continue repairing the ties between them (Which, in my opinion, started when the High Elves were allowed to pilgrimage to the Sunwell). THis would also allow you to give us different eye color options (Green for those people who wish to stay the same, blue for those who wish to play high elves, and white/goldish for those who wish to be purified by the Sunwell).

I understand that this is a lot, but it's necessary. Every time I enter my capital city, I get a little sadder and a little angrier that still nothing has been done about my favorite race in the game. Please, just bring this to the developers and at least show them; I'd appreciate even just knowing my voice and opinions on this subject have been heard.

Thanks to all those who read the entire thing.

Tell me what you think. I, for one, fervently believe that this would be a good thing.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure exactly how many features Blizzard can/should add to the elves, but new lore is definitively needed. The same can be said for the Draenei, who're more or less just random soldiers in the alliance army nowadays. Also, their city is still basically rubble. They sure are slow to rebuild.

[Chonar]

Rebuilding Quel'danas? What about those wanting to get items/title from Shattered Sun faction, or farming the legendary bow from Kil'jaeden?

I guess perhaps you could phase the area to be level-appropriate when you enter it through a different manner... Maybe have the 'old' Quel'danas only accesible through the portal in Shattrath City? Hm. :/

[Nonfictionless]

I'd definitively support the rebuilding of Silvermoon and Quel'danas and most definitively the lore update. Although I doubt much will be done, at least in MoP. It's all about the humans vs. the orcs right now. And as for the old rep/items/legendary Chonar, let us not forget Naxx40. Blizzard would have no problem removing/reusing them. Honestly though that doesn't bother me one bit.

However I do disagree with the removal of their corruption. Yes they aren't reliant on fel energies but they are still massive addicts to the arcane. Given their past and how their magic addiction will dictate their future, they really only have one way to go and that's down. Arcane may not work as fast as fel magic on decaying the body but it is still a prominent side effect that all magic users have to deal with. And with how deeply their culture is infused with the arcane, the damages wroth by their fel addiction couldn't be reveresed in a few decades, let alone one, at least in my opinion.

[Yumisara]

I think the Blood Elves should get a massive update, or at least caught up with the times. Phasing works decently well for that, but it may just be the matter, that Blizzard just won't do it. They should however at least make Lor'themar the King since Kael'thas is dead.

Rebuilding Silvermoon would be a great idea and bring it back to it's former Glory, but leave the Scar through Eversong there. It's not like the Lich King ran through there yesterday.

Quel'danas... I don't know about that one. I think it should be phased, as a zone overall on the island. But still being able to enter the instances and do those. Like with Icecrown, areas are phased out because of the amount of time you spent doing the Argent Tournament quests.

[Cairhiin]

I have to totally agree with the OP. I also think our race is in need of a massive upgrade, but having said that I'm also well aware there's other races that have similar issues if not worse (like the Draenei). For a start we really do need a much more visible leader, and I would also love to see Silvermoon rebuild.

[Zaelsino]

Eh, Metzen says they have some "big plans" for the blood elves and the draenei down the line. I'd be satisfied with a slightly updated capital to reflect TBC's finale, and if I had my way Theron would find himself killed somehow, Rommath taking a level in badass to become the magically-inclined leader Kael'thas was supposed to be, with Halduron and Liadrin as his more moderate aides in the spire...

Sadly, it's probably unrealistic to expect a starting zone revamp at this point. It wouldn't take too much development time, I suppose (Eversong/Ghostlands/Azuremyst/Bloodmyst are only four lowbie zones after all), but it's just down to a lore and continuity issue at this point. They have so little to gain by revisiting those areas.

The best thing could do? Pay no attention to these little fools who think yet another "civil war" is how to make the race relevant (I refuse to believe a race this small would be stupid enough to gimp themselves like that again), and instead work on showcasing the different shades and schisms in Silvermoon's various factions. Have Liadrin struggle with a split between "old way" Blood Knights and those following a slightly more harmonious path post-TBC. Have Rommath vie against Tae'thelan to maintain the Magisters' political power and credibility now that blood elf society is moving past the age where their totalitarianism was needed. Have Halduron champion the cause of bringing the high elf remnants back into the fold, etc.. Maybe have Lor'themar play something of a role in the Orgrimmar raid (I'd personally prefer him to side with Garrosh to stick it to Sylvanas by proxy, and thus open up the possibility of another leader, but alas...); little things like that would be a nice way to seed some bigger plotlines down the road.

As for the more immediate future, well... I'd say there's a rather high chance the Reliquary at least will make an appearance in MoP. Hopefully.

Oh, and Lady Liadrin should come back wielding Quel'Delar to complement Halduron's Thori'dal. Just because. <3

[Axxon]

Patience is all you can have now. Blood Elves and Draenei will get some love some day.

[Grimbold21]

Wouldn't rebuilding Silvermoon making it the largest city in the game? I mean you have half of a city which is already comparable in terms of size to the others.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Wouldn't rebuilding Silvermoon making it the largest city in the game? I mean you have half of a city which is already comparable in terms of size to the others.

It would.

Oh, the irony. Biggest city, smallest population of any race q.q

---------- Post added 2012-04-13 at 05:02 PM ----------

I'm not sure exactly how many features Blizzard can/should add to the elves, but new lore is definitively needed. The same can be said for the Draenei, who're more or less just random soldiers in the alliance army nowadays. Also, their city is still basically rubble. They sure are slow to rebuild.

Poor BC races =/ Stuck in '07 since... '07?

And yeah, both humans and elves seem to be slow at rebuilding things (The humans did get that statue of Varian built pretty quick though).

Rebuilding Quel'danas? What about those wanting to get items/title from Shattered Sun faction, or farming the legendary bow from Kil'jaeden?

I guess perhaps you could phase the area to be level-appropriate when you enter it through a different manner... Maybe have the 'old' Quel'danas only accesible through the portal in Shattrath City? Hm. :/

They could do that (The portal through Shattrath). That way, they can rebuild both halves of Silvermoon City, and possibly turn Quel'danas into the starting area (And incorporate the rejoining of the High and Blood in that). Maybe give the eastern half of Silvermoon to the Blood elves )With Lor'themar leading), and the western half to the High elves (with Vereesa as that leader).

This, in turn, could lead to high elves being playable.

I'd definitively support the rebuilding of Silvermoon and Quel'danas and most definitively the lore update. Although I doubt much will be done, at least in MoP. It's all about the humans vs. the orcs right now. And as for the old rep/items/legendary Chonar, let us not forget Naxx40. Blizzard would have no problem removing/reusing them. Honestly though that doesn't bother me one bit.

However I do disagree with the removal of their corruption. Yes they aren't reliant on fel energies but they are still massive addicts to the arcane. Given their past and how their magic addiction will dictate their future, they really only have one way to go and that's down. Arcane may not work as fast as fel magic on decaying the body but it is still a prominent side effect that all magic users have to deal with. And with how deeply their culture is infused with the arcane, the damages wroth by their fel addiction couldn't be reveresed in a few decades, let alone one, at least in my opinion.

Well, they've dealt with the Sunwell (Which was originally a source of just Arcane power), for thousands of years. If anything, it made them stronger (at least until it was gone ).

Now that it's a fountain of partial-Arcan, partial-Light based energies, thanks to Mu'ru, I find it possible that the Fel-energies they tainted themselves with could be reversing at least somewhat. I don't mean all the way, and I think this could be a way to get away from the image of "crazy-psycho-magic-starved elf" we seem to see a lot in the Burning Crusade dungeons.

As Zaelsino pointed out earlier, Tae'thelan is also another indicator in this direction, given his goal of finding a way to end the addictions the Sin'dorei suffer from.

Eh, Metzen says they have some "big plans" for the blood elves and the draenei down the line. I'd be satisfied with a slightly updated capital to reflect TBC's finale, and if I had my way Theron would find himself killed somehow, Rommath taking a level in badass to become the magically-inclined leader Kael'thas was supposed to be, with Halduron and Liadrin as his more moderate aides in the spire...

Sadly, it's probably unrealistic to expect a starting zone revamp at this point. It wouldn't take too much development time, I suppose (Eversong/Ghostlands/Azuremyst/Bloodmyst are only four lowbie zones after all), but it's just down to a lore and continuity issue at this point. They have so little to gain by revisiting those areas.

The best thing could do? Pay no attention to these little fools who think yet another "civil war" is how to make the race relevant (I refuse to believe a race this small would be stupid enough to gimp themselves like that again), and instead work on showcasing the different shades and schisms in Silvermoon's various factions. Have Liadrin struggle with a split between "old way" Blood Knights and those following a slightly more harmonious path post-TBC. Have Rommath vie against Tae'thelan to maintain the Magisters' political power and credibility now that blood elf society is moving past the age where their totalitarianism was needed. Have Halduron champion the cause of bringing the high elf remnants back into the fold, etc.. Maybe have Lor'themar play something of a role in the Orgrimmar raid (I'd personally prefer him to side with Garrosh to stick it to Sylvanas by proxy, and thus open up the possibility of another leader, but alas...); little things like that would be a nice way to seed some bigger plotlines down the road.

As for the more immediate future, well... I'd say there's a rather high chance the Reliquary at least will make an appearance in MoP. Hopefully.

Oh, and Lady Liadrin should come back wielding Quel'Delar to complement Halduron's Thori'dal. Just because. <3

I'd prefer if Lor'themar stayed alive :x He's done so much for the Sin'dorei. When you think about it, it's really not his fault he's being twisted the way he is; The other leaders see him as week because A. He hasn't seized the crown for himself, preferring to stay Regent Lord and let the royal line die (Which is a mistake, but not for the power-hungry reasons), and B. His forces are so small and so stretched out across the world. Sylvanas especially uses this to her advantage, as played out in the Lor'themar leader story.

I can see Halduron do that with the High elves, and it's would be a great way to further expand on the whole rivalry-friendship thing they've been hinting at between Halduron and Lor'themar. The Blood Knight plot would be a great way to help the High elf re-introduction too, with them being on Liadrin and the neo-Knights' side.

It'd be cool for her to wield that in my opinion, but I think Quel'delar is one of the lore weapons Blizzard is going to leave with us.

Patience is all you can have now. Blood Elves and Draenei will get some love some day.

I've had enough with patience. It's been nearly 5 years (in real and game time) since the Burning Crusade races have had a major update, while every other race has had 1 or 2, sometimes 3 or more updates since the end of the Sunwell patch.

[Nonfictionless]

The addiction isn't just a physical need, it's physiological too (at least as I understand it). And the fact that it does make them more powerful only lends to the degeneration. This isn't unquie to the Sin'dorei. It corrupts even the most noble or wise, simply look to Malygos. The only way to prevent this in future elves is to abstain from it's practice.

Arcane magic is a drug. Its use is intoxicating and sends power throbbing through the veins, but it is also addictive, subtly corrupting and even maddening. ---Direct from the WoW Roleplaying Book.

And as we know with their history all of this is shown with ample examples in the Sin'dorei. The corruption won't go away soon and honestly it shouldn't. I understand from a roleplaying side that some people would like this to go away so they aren't limited to being a Sin'dorei, but Blizzard wouldn't change it for something so limited.

[Deleted]

I think Blizzard will be updating the dran zones, seeing as its official that they've rebuilt the Exodar.

(So here's hoping we'll get some belf construction going)

[pateuvasiliu]

I'm not sure exactly how many features Blizzard can/should add to the elves, but new lore is definitively needed. The same can be said for the Draenei, who're more or less just random soldiers in the alliance army nowadays. Also, their city is still basically rubble. They sure are slow to rebuild.

I'm still wondering why they would rebuild when they could simply walk back to Outland, now free of Illidan, and reclaim it/live in Shattrath.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

The addiction isn't just a physical need, it's physiological too (at least as I understand it). And the fact that it does make them more powerful only lends to the degeneration. This isn't unquie to the Sin'dorei. It corrupts even the most noble or wise, simply look to Malygos. The only way to prevent this in future elves is to abstain from it's practice.



And as we know with their history all of this is shown with ample examples in the Sin'dorei. The corruption won't go away soon and honestly it shouldn't. I understand from a roleplaying side that some people would like this to go away so they aren't limited to being a Sin'dorei, but Blizzard wouldn't change it for something so limited.

I don't think Malygos' case was because of his mastery over the magic (I may be wrong though), I think it had more to do with seeing his close friend, his brother really, annihilate his entire family at once while laughing gleefully.*

Dragons aside, I don't wish for their entire corruption to be removed, I just want something to be done with them. I really don't think the arcane addiction will ever go away (seeing as how the Sunwell is still half-arcane now), I just think the demonic based corruption should start being erased, with the Sunwell's light-based half purifying and replacing that part.

If this does ever happen, we could probably see playable High, Blood, and "Light" (called so for their "golden" eyes) Elves, based on whichever class you play or maybe even whichever you choose (this of course would mean other races get an eye option too. For example, most night elves are supposed to have silver eyes; the golden eyes are meant for those destined for greatness (or maybe it's the other way around?)).

---------- Post added 2012-04-18 at 06:30 AM ----------

I'm still wondering why they would rebuild when they could simply walk back to Outland, now free of Illidan, and reclaim it/live in Shattrath.

It's possible now that they've been living on Azeroth so long that they just don't want to leave. Maybe they'd rather stay with the Alliance than to back to Outland, or some other reason. Who knows? *shrugs*

[Spiffums]

Sin'dorei........Till I Die!

[Ratyrel]

Rebuilding Quel'danas? What about those wanting to get items/title from Shattered Sun faction, or farming the legendary bow from Kil'jaeden?

I guess perhaps you could phase the area to be level-appropriate when you enter it through a different manner... Maybe have the 'old' Quel'danas only accesible through the portal in Shattrath City? Hm. :/

Maybe put it in Caverns of Time - anything without a proper place seems to go there nowadays anyway

[Nonfictionless]

I don't think Malygos' case was because of his mastery over the magic (I may be wrong though), I think it had more to do with seeing his close friend, his brother really, annihilate his entire family at once while laughing gleefully.*

Dragons aside, I don't wish for their entire corruption to be removed, I just want something to be done with them. I really don't think the arcane addiction will ever go away (seeing as how the Sunwell is still half-arcane now), I just think the demonic based corruption should start being erased, with the Sunwell's light-based half purifying and replacing that part.

If this does ever happen, we could probably see playable High, Blood, and "Light" (called so for their "golden" eyes) Elves, based on whichever class you play or maybe even whichever you choose (this of course would mean other races get an eye option too. For example, most night elves are supposed to have silver eyes; the golden eyes are meant for those destined for greatness (or maybe it's the other way around?)).

Well from a mainly aesthetics point of view, yes changing eye color would be something Blizzard might do. But your argument would have to be clearly focused on that to them.

But secondly Arcane corruption (Even Fel as it is simply a strictly evil and demonic twisted branch of Arcane) isn't like a typical corruption in lore. Where as they can eventually be cured or purified an item that has been touched by it, this is a corruption of the soul. Now these agings and markings of decay can be hidden with a few spells from a skilled weaver but the Sin'dorei's is just so much much more. They went from having the Sunwell to nothing and when presented with the techniques and power to steal their arcane needs from demons they jumped at it and with gusto. Perhaps in some of the younger generation and definitely the newest generation I could see their eyes reverting to the normal brilliant blue.

[Shawman]

Maybe have Lor'themar play something of a role in the Orgrimmar raid (I'd personally prefer him to side with Garrosh to stick it to Sylvanas by proxy, and thus open up the possibility of another leader, but alas...); little things like that would be a nice way to seed some bigger plotlines down the road.

I cannot see this at all, because frankly, isn't Lor'Themar suppose to be a staunch ally of Sylvanas at this point since the Forsake basically brought the Sin'dorei into the Horde's fold? I mean, Tranquillien is decked with both races...

Anyway, I agree with the OP.

Shadow in the Sun was a GREAT way to portray Lor'Themar as a humble leader ("I am the Regent Lord, not the King.") which is something the Horde needs alongside Baine.

On the flipside, Shadow in the Sun was a story from the past while Velen's short story was set in the present/slight future because the Exodar is completely rebuilt and ready to leave, though Velen is holding the Draenei back. Since the Draenei have some update in lore, the Blood Elves need some loving too.

[Rhozul]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Blood Elves have been building something extravagant. Garrosh says that they're over nine thousand [currency] in debt to Ogrimmar right now.

[Zaelsino]

I cannot see this at all, because frankly, isn't Lor'Themar suppose to be a staunch ally of Sylvanas at this point since the Forsake basically brought the Sin'dorei into the Horde's fold? I mean, Tranquillien is decked with both races...

Isn't that exactly what his short story debunked, though? It showed us that he's Sylvanas's pawn; and that moreover, he's fully aware of it, and not too pleased. I think he'd jump at the chance to get out from under her thumb.