Expertise, really?

[Sonnillon]

Do we need expertise in MoP? I've read and heard that we will be needing expertise cap alongside hitcap now.

[Frostinferno]

Yes we will need it. Both will need 7.5% to cap out.

[Herecius]

Yep. Mobs be dodgin' our attacks all over the place.

[Sonnillon]

Perfect....

I do hope that as I progress through level I get my hands on some gear that has expertise on it. Although this is not nice news to SV hunter (well puts us on a same bar as rest of the specs), since we don't have Hunting Party nor Pathing any more to choose from (I say in 10-man grp it is a serious thing....).

Guess the priority will be hit cap > expertise cap > crit > haste > mastery

I've tried to reforge in beta my T13 gear for more haste and bit of expertise. Just not possible.

Thanks for the replies.

[ice216]

yeah Hunters actually need to get as much "to hit" stats as everyone else now, never really understood how my axe could be dodged but your arrows couldnt(but thats a RL vs game issue)

[bandet]

yeah Hunters actually need to get as much "to hit" stats as everyone else now, never really understood how my axe could be dodged but your arrows couldnt(but thats a RL vs game issue)

Because axes travel slower than arrows, ergo it is easier to dodge?




Now, I am not saying the fact that hunters only needed 8% hit while everyone else needed so much more wasn't stupid, but making hunter shots dodgeable is just a completely retarded thing to do.

Think about it, how does a melee counter dodge? They attack from behind. How does a hunter counter dodge? We.. uh.. well, I am 40 yards away. I guess I just have to hope the enemy backpedals towards me while I kite?

They just aren't thinking about hunters in PvP, as usual.

[Blackmist]

Since the uneven hit cap is one of the reasons (IMO) why hunters failed to scale well in late Cata (until we got a ton of buffs), I can only say this is a good change.

Also means we can share all the gear with shaman and misc pieces with rogues. Maybe we'll even get a BiS ring that doesn't involve a stat we can't use.

[bandet]

Since the uneven hit cap is one of the reasons (IMO) why hunters failed to scale well in late Cata (until we got a ton of buffs), I can only say this is a good change.

Also means we can share all the gear with shaman and misc pieces with rogues. Maybe we'll even get a BiS ring that doesn't involve a stat we can't use.

Yes, having our steady shot dodgeable is clearly the best idea ever.

[Cyph3r]

Now, I am not saying the fact that hunters only needed 8% hit while everyone else needed so much more wasn't stupid, but making hunter shots dodgeable is just a completely retarded thing to do.

Think about it, how does a melee counter dodge? They attack from behind. How does a hunter counter dodge? We.. uh.. well, I am 40 yards away. I guess I just have to hope the enemy backpedals towards me while I kite?

They just aren't thinking about hunters in PvP, as usual.

The alternative is just to raise our hit cap to 15%. At the end of the day it's the same effect, we stack for 15% worth of anti-avoidance stats. Whether that's 1400 hit or 700 hit and 700 expertise makes little difference to me, or likely anyone else. Especially with reforging, honestly how hard will this be?

And melee doesn't stand behind targets to mitigate dodge, because attacks can still be dodged from behind. They stack expertise to mitigate dodge, just like we'll now be doing. Standing behind targets mitigates Parry, and our shots will only be able to be dodged, NOT parried. And expect all classes who have a dodge boost against ranged attacks to lose that, as it was only put in to counter the fact that Hunters had such a comparatively low hit cap.

[bandet]

The alternative is just to raise our hit cap to 15%. At the end of the day it's the same effect, we stack for 15% worth of anti-avoidance stats. Whether that's 1400 hit or 700 hit and 700 expertise makes little difference to me, or likely anyone else. Especially with reforging, honestly how hard will this be?

And melee doesn't stand behind targets to mitigate dodge, because attacks can still be dodged from behind. They stack expertise to mitigate dodge, just like we'll now be doing. Standing behind targets mitigates Parry, and our shots will only be able to be dodged, NOT parried. And expect all classes who have a dodge boost against ranged attacks to lose that, as it was only put in to counter the fact that Hunters had such a comparatively low hit cap.

I was talking about PvP.

The dodge change is actually a VERY BIG DEAL in PvP. PLAYERS can't dodge from behind. Making us need 15% hit for PvE would solve the stat disparity without having retarded side effects. Dodge isn't a mechanic that is designed to work on a ranged class because of the facing requirements.

[asharia]

Dumb change.

They should keep some variety in the game

[lazybum]

Dumb change.

They should keep some variety in the game

it is more to even things out, currently all we need is 8% hit where as every other class needs 17% (casters) and melee all need hit and expertise. if you ask me it only seems fair for us hunters to be required something more then just 8%.

also like others have said makes it easier for shamans/hunters to share more gear as well as for us to share misc items with rogues and other agi classes that use expertise. over all just makes it easier in the long run to gear a hunter for the caps, least i think so, assuming you get things to drop

[Hunterpower]

I like the idea of having 15% hit in pve rather than us needing expertise, heck why not make that for all melee, too? expertise is redundant when you already have hit.
If this dodging shots goes live hunters will effectively be laughed at by ferals/rogues and even enh shamans as they miss 25% of the time or more.
if they want this to go live they need to make a pvp set bonus that makes shots undodgeable, with the pvp stats making pvp gear unwanted in pve it won't unbalance pve or anything.

[Vereesa]

I was talking about PvP.

The dodge change is actually a VERY BIG DEAL in PvP. PLAYERS can't dodge from behind. Making us need 15% hit for PvE would solve the stat disparity without having retarded side effects. Dodge isn't a mechanic that is designed to work on a ranged class because of the facing requirements.

Ret pallies would like to have a word with you and your dodges; they're just as screwed as you are. One time I had my Crusader Strike dodged 5 times in a row by a Feral Druid and that lost me the game, because I wasn't able to get any damage in.

[Atlanis]

Ret pallies would like to have a word with you and your dodges; they're just as screwed as you are. One time I had my Crusader Strike dodged 5 times in a row by a Feral Druid and that lost me the game, because I wasn't able to get any damage in.

On beta, I fought a Rogue and missed three Steadys after missing a Chim. It's a good thing there were other people around, or I'd have been a dead man. Being dodgeable is awful. It stings especially bad because we're the only Agility class that can't dodge worth shit.

[bandet]

Ret pallies would like to have a word with you and your dodges; they're just as screwed as you are. One time I had my Crusader Strike dodged 5 times in a row by a Feral Druid and that lost me the game, because I wasn't able to get any damage in.

Oh please, don't even BOTHER with your ret pally whining.

You CAN counter dodge by attacking from behind, sorry if you can't manage to do so. Hunters don't even have the option, how are we supposed to be behind the target when we are +20 yards away?

[rad586]

Oh please, don't even BOTHER with your ret pally whining.

You CAN counter dodge by attacking from behind, sorry if you can't manage to do so. Hunters don't even have the option, how are we supposed to be behind the target when we are +20 yards away?

You can shoot now the targets that are in melee range, as they've removed the minimum range on beta ...... so yeah, hunters DO have that option, atleast for instant shots.

[Vereesa]

Oh please, don't even BOTHER with your ret pally whining.

You CAN counter dodge by attacking from behind, sorry if you can't manage to do so. Hunters don't even have the option, how are we supposed to be behind the target when we are +20 yards away?

If melee could always just get behind a target so easily, people wouldn't even consider using Mangle/Hemorrhage.

[Gnarles Malarkey]

You CAN counter dodge by attacking from behind, sorry if you can't manage to do so. Hunters don't even have the option, how are we supposed to be behind the target when we are +20 yards away?

Hunters don't have the option of staying behind the boss when the tank turns it away from the raid?

Edit: I didn't notice this was a PvP-centric discussion, so pardon me. Should be noted, however, that caps are lower against equal-level mobs, so reaching them for PvP shouldn't be as much of a chore.

[Dave131]

I main as Enhancement

We have to cap Expertise and SPELL Hit

So quit yer bellyaching :-P