"Let the buyer beware": the decline of personal responsibility

[TheWerebison]

*EDIT* This is not about people who are consistently, constantly getting errors logging in. That IS bad service. Read carefully, I'm talking about people wanting money back for things that WERE known would be in the game. :P

Also, it's not all about D3.

I've just about had it with people. Nobody takes responsibility for their own dumb purchases anymore. Folks, I'm gonna level with you; there comes a time when you're going to have to grow up and realize that your actions have consequences.

There's a thread going on where people have claimed that Blizzard should refund people for Diablo 3, because it's a "bad game". That Amazon has refunded customers who demanded a refund for Mass Effect 3 because they "didn't like the ending." That idiots demand movie theaters give their money back if they watch the whole movie and don't like it.

These people are what is destroying this country.

First off, Diablo 3 is Diablo 3. We, all of us, had access to all the information on what was going to be coming out on release. We knew it was online only. We knew it wouldn't have pvp at the start. We knew that there would be a real money auction house. We knew that it would have randomized loot exactly like Diablo 2. We knew (or should've known) that as the game with the most pre-purchases practically EVER that, as an online game, with everyone trying to play all at once, that there would be server issues on launch. We even got access to the beta, and a chance to test it out. So, my words to you are: if you had all this information at your fingertips, and you felt that you probably weren't going to like these things, and you bought it anyway...IT IS YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT.

It's not Blizzard's fault you bought the game after they accurately described what was going to be involved, what it was going to be about, what the content would be like. It's not Blizzard's fault you bought the game because "I had such high expectations." It is YOUR fault.

People go on and on about how good customer service should basically amount to companies bending over backwards to placate the droves of idiots that want to cheat them out of money. Rather than do their own research, because they are lazy, they would rather do something from a vague idea off the top of their head, get what their sub-par IQ's think that they need, and then bitch at the companies when things don't work out. There's a complete logical disconnect between customer service and common goddamn sense. Here's my take on customer service: I call it Fuck Yeah! and Fuck You!

1.)
Fuck Yeah!) You get served a meal at McDonald's that has some improperly prepared food. You get violently ill. You demand your money back. I would give you that and a stack of coupons, hoping that you would choose to eat here again, and apologizing profusely for the oversight, which was clearly our fault.

Fuck You!) You choose to eat, day in and day out, at a restaurant that serves primarily foods high in grease, starch, and fat. You blow up to the size of an elephant. You claim that McDonald's is the one that turned you into a 500-pound mouth-breather, and sue them. You know this place serves shit food, yet you choose to eat there for the convenience of not having to cook for yourself, and then you want to make several thousand bucks back on the side.

2.)
Fuck Yeah!) You buy a ton of paint from Home Depot to redo your house. You give them the specific color you want, they mix it, and because you trust them expressly, you paint the entire house. After the paint dries, you realize they made the paint wrong, and the whole thing is ruined. I would take the hit to the company and give you the correct paint for free, and if you couldn't take it all now, would also set up a free delivery. True, the customer probably should have tested the paint first, but I would let that slide, since the bottom line is, we screwed up.

Fuck You!) You buy a ton of paint to paint your house. Home Depot mixes it correctly, and you paint your whole house. Afterwards, you look at it, and decide you really don't care for that color after all. You demand your money back.

Folks, the customer is NOT always right, but people have been led to believe that they are special and deserve everything in the world. I'll tell you, I went to the theatre once to watch...I think it was Red Planet? The commercials made it look like a neat outer space action movie. And it was more of a drama. I went with my aunt and my mother, and all 3 of us were bored to tears. There were another 3 or 4 people in the theatre, and they were yawning the entire time. After a while, I started saying Mystery Science Theatre 3000-style things at the movie, and everyone in there got a good laugh, so at least the movie had SOME entertainment value (although I'm probably lucky nobody liked the movie, because I would have fully deserved it if one of them turned around and punched me in the face). Did I stomp up to the ticket booth and demand our money back for the 2 hours of my life that got sucked away by this pile of crap? Nope. This movie had been out for a while. The reviews were out there. All I had to do was take the time to read a few. It was my bad decision, and I stuck with it.

Parents, quit blaming video game companies for making violent games because you don't have the intelligence to look at the ESRB rating and see that it's not really designed with 8-year-olds in mind. Stop complaining that your kids have turned into entitled little shits, when all you ever did to "raise" them was put them in front of a television and ignore them.

Bottom line: Take some responsibility for your own actions. Grow up.

[Torq]

Bottom line: Take some responsibility for your own actions. Grow up.

In before all the whiners ranting about how entitled they are to various things.

All told, though, well said, and I agree!

[Gheld]

imo sticky + close = win thread.

[Badpaladin]

I'm not really convinced it's declining. There have always been stupid people who don't research things they throw money at.

[Skippy88]

It all depends on the circumstances. In some cases it's the sellers fault and sometimes it's the customer's fault.

However, I've noticed compared to 30 years people generally have more on their plate. Many are working multiple jobs, are in debt, etc. so their lives are a bit more hectic. This has caused so many different issues like being not having the time to be properly informed and leaving things to the last minute that in itself is the root cause of many issues. In my line of work the leaving things to the last minute has really taken over. I just got a call a few hours ago form who wanted 40 Graduation Gowns and they want them for next week. There's just no way we can fill the order in that time. I didn't ask them but I wonder how long have they known the graduation date?

[Beavis]

While I certainly agree with your sentiment, this is just the nature of today's hyper-competitive marketplace. The customer may not be right, but if you want their money next time, you better just smile and nod your head.

[Deleted]

While I do agree about people having to take responsibility of their own actions, your analogies are ridiculously fallacious and incomparable to the Diablo 3 issues all together.

Diablo 3 isn't McDonalds. People aren't complaining about the negative effects D3 is having on their lives.
Diablo 3 isn't an ordered "service" that was mistakenly replaced by another service. No one ordered D3, but ended up getting SC2 instead.

Diablo 3 is a game you bought but were unable to play due to the inability of the company behind it to foresee the amount of players it would have and because of the choices they had made when designing the game. "The always on DRM!" as they call it. That's not NOT taking responsibility for your actions. That's a company failing to give you the service you haven't just ordered but already paid for! Entirely different story than getting a wrong game or some other arbitrary crap.

You want analogies? I'll give you some.

Go to a restaurant; pay up; don't get your food.
Buy yourself a car; Car won't turn on unless you sit in it for 4 hours at a time.
Buy a house; Key to the only door won't work.

These are fitting analogies. Your's are not.
You're tired of people complaining? I've had it with people sticking up for these MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR companies, who make mistakes due to greed and not due to inability. If you feel like Blizzard is defensible, regarding Diablo 3's downtime, ask yourself this: Where the problems avoidable had they invested in avoiding them or not, and then come back to the question whether the failure of a company is the failure of the consumer and not the other way around.

[Emberhelm]

You sir, hit the nail on the head, I fully agree with you. America is becoming a cesspool for the lazy and incumbent. There are waves of people who choose to not work and instead game the system fueling their lazy asses. Funny thing being, the government is completely turning away and throwing money at those who won't contribute to society.

But I completely agree, you nailed it sir.

[Deleted]

Want to play the game you just spent $60 on?

Too bad you're an entitled manchild who is destroying the country, grow up!

Yeah, no.

[mittacc]

While I do agree about people having to take responsibility of their own actions, your analogies are ridiculously fallacious and incomparable to the Diablo 3 issues all together.

Diablo 3 isn't McDonalds. People aren't complaining about the negative effects D3 is having on their lives.
Diablo 3 isn't an ordered "service" that was mistakenly replaced by another service. No one ordered D3, but ended up getting SC2 instead.

Diablo 3 is a game you bought but were unable to play due to the inability of the company behind it to foresee the amount of players it would have and because of the choices they had made when designing the game. "The always on DRM!" as they call it. That's not NOT taking responsibility for your actions. That's a company failing to give you the service you haven't just ordered but already paid for! Entirely different story than getting a wrong game or some other arbitrary crap.

You want analogies? I'll give you some.

Go to a restaurant; pay up; don't get your food.
Buy yourself a car; Car won't turn on unless you sit in it for 4 hours at a time.
Buy a house; Key to the only door won't work.

These are fitting analogies. Your's are not.
You're tired of people complaining? I've had it with people sticking up for these MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR companies, who make mistakes due to greed and not due to inability. If you feel like Blizzard is defensible, regarding Diablo 3's downtime, ask yourself this: Where the problems avoidable had they invested in avoiding them or not, and then come back to the question whether the failure of a company is the failure of the consumer and not the other way around.

couldn't have said it better myself! +1 cookie for you sir

[Frozenshiva]

While I do agree about people having to take responsibility of their own actions, your analogies are ridiculously fallacious and incomparable to the Diablo 3 issues all together.

Diablo 3 isn't McDonalds. People aren't complaining about the negative effects D3 is having on their lives.
Diablo 3 isn't an ordered "service" that was mistakenly replaced by another service. No one ordered D3, but ended up getting SC2 instead.

Diablo 3 is a game you bought but were unable to play due to the inability of the company behind it to foresee the amount of players it would have and because of the choices they had made when designing the game. "The always on DRM!" as they call it. That's not NOT taking responsibility for your actions. That's a company failing to give you the service you haven't just ordered but already paid for! Entirely different story than getting a wrong game or some other arbitrary crap.

You want analogies? I'll give you some.

Go to a restaurant; pay up; don't get your food.
Buy yourself a car; Car won't turn on unless you sit in it for 4 hours at a time.
Buy a house; Key to the only door won't work.

These are fitting analogies. Your's are not.
You're tired of people complaining? I've had it with people sticking up for these MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR companies, who make mistakes due to greed and not due to inability. If you feel like Blizzard is defensible, regarding Diablo 3's downtime, ask yourself this: Where the problems avoidable had they invested in avoiding them or not, and then come back to the question whether the failure of a company is the failure of the consumer and not the other way around.

It's actually a bit of both. While you do make a good case and agree to the points you made, i do think a part (albeit small in reference to your last paragraph) is still the customer's fault.
Not informing yourself about the product and paying for something you will eventually not want is one thing.
But there are a ton of people buying games just because they are "IN" and "COOL". Doesn't matter if they want the game or like it, they get it because everyone else gets it.
This is why a huge amount of actual versions of the game are digital.

From a certain point, you could believe that Blizzard made sure to have enough space for people to log in, based on the number of boxed games + a reasonable amount of digital copies. Add to that, say... 1mil extra users that for one or another reason didn't come into the equation, and you blew up a perfectly stable plan.

On a smaller scale, a good analogy would be holding a party for 20 invitees.As a precaution you prepare food/drinks for say 30, then you end up with 40 because a friend of a friend came with him because he was going. All of a sudden your plan went down the drain.

As a note, i totally agree with you, and i do think at that level they should have been better prepared for this. It's not like it was an unknown game suddenly growing into a hit and being overwhelmed over night.
They simply screwed up royally in too many departments and it shows.
TBH i was expecting more from Blizzard than this mess.

EDIT: I also think its a huge slap in the face, the fact that US servers are mostly fine, whereas the EU and Eastern servers are suffering almost constantly. I'm not one to doomsay things and whatnot, but when i can log in on the US servers on the first try, after wasting 2-3 hours trying to log in on my EU server, it adds up to the frustration.

[TheWerebison]

While I do agree about people having to take responsibility of their own actions, your analogies are ridiculously fallacious and incomparable to the Diablo 3 issues all together.

Diablo 3 isn't McDonalds. People aren't complaining about the negative effects D3 is having on their lives.
Diablo 3 isn't an ordered "service" that was mistakenly replaced by another service. No one ordered D3, but ended up getting SC2 instead.

Diablo 3 is a game you bought but were unable to play due to the inability of the company behind it to foresee the amount of players it would have and because of the choices they had made when designing the game. "The always on DRM!" as they call it. That's not NOT taking responsibility for your actions. That's a company failing to give you the service you haven't just ordered but already paid for! Entirely different story than getting a wrong game or some other arbitrary crap.

You want analogies? I'll give you some.

Go to a restaurant; pay up; don't get your food.
Buy yourself a car; Car won't turn on unless you sit in it for 4 hours at a time.
Buy a house; Key to the only door won't work.

These are fitting analogies. Your's are not.
You're tired of people complaining? I've had it with people sticking up for these MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR companies, who make mistakes due to greed and not due to inability. If you feel like Blizzard is defensible, regarding Diablo 3's downtime, ask yourself this: Where the problems avoidable had they invested in avoiding them or not, and then come back to the question whether the failure of a company is the failure of the consumer and not the other way around.

Well, answer me this, then. Since the very first day when, again, I fully expected there would be errors logging in due to the millions of people attempting to do the same...since that day, I have not had a single issue logging in. I've heard people who have, but so far, it seems to be the minority.

Now, if those people complain and want their money back because, for two weeks, they have not been able to log in hardly at all due to errors...Yeah, I can definitely see that. That IS bad customer service, and if you cannot play a game that you bought, I would provide a refund. But at the beginning of my post, I cited that people were wanting a refund just for it being a "bad game". For any or all of the reasons that I cited. That's my main issue.

Edit: I guess I didn't actually put in a question when I said "answer me this." :P

Where are most of these errors occurring? Like I said, I haven't had issues at all, except with the Auction House, which is VERY buggy. Is it in other countries?

[Deleted]

As a note, i totally agree with you, and i do think at that level they should have been better prepared for this. It's not like it was an unknown game suddenly growing into a hit and being overwhelmed over night.
They simply screwed up royally in too many departments and it shows.
TBH i was expecting more from Blizzard than this mess.

I don't shun their "always on DRM" decision at all. It's a good move and a fantastic idea. However, I also expect the damn service to work. The fact that it didn't just shows their lack on insight and foresight. They say they want to "fix" the issues, well, if the problems are fixable they must be avoidable as well, but alas.

The final two lines of yours sum it up nicely. A small mistake when handling online games is a given. Global outage due to not being prepared is inexcusable.

[Whidbey]

All the internets are belong to you sir.. bravo for saying things i have never been able to put into words!

[Donax]

While I do agree about people having to take responsibility of their own actions, your analogies are ridiculously fallacious and incomparable to the Diablo 3 issues all together.

Diablo 3 isn't McDonalds. People aren't complaining about the negative effects D3 is having on their lives.
Diablo 3 isn't an ordered "service" that was mistakenly replaced by another service. No one ordered D3, but ended up getting SC2 instead.

Diablo 3 is a game you bought but were unable to play due to the inability of the company behind it to foresee the amount of players it would have and because of the choices they had made when designing the game. "The always on DRM!" as they call it. That's not NOT taking responsibility for your actions. That's a company failing to give you the service you haven't just ordered but already paid for! Entirely different story than getting a wrong game or some other arbitrary crap.

You want analogies? I'll give you some.

Go to a restaurant; pay up; don't get your food.
Buy yourself a car; Car won't turn on unless you sit in it for 4 hours at a time.
Buy a house; Key to the only door won't work.

These are fitting analogies. Your's are not.
You're tired of people complaining? I've had it with people sticking up for these MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR companies, who make mistakes due to greed and not due to inability. If you feel like Blizzard is defensible, regarding Diablo 3's downtime, ask yourself this: Where the problems avoidable had they invested in avoiding them or not, and then come back to the question whether the failure of a company is the failure of the consumer and not the other way around.

Your analogies are flawed also

Go to a restaurant; They warn that there is a longer than normal wait due to the high volume but you pay up; don't get your food for a long while but it eventually comes
Buy yourself a car; They warn you the car needs to warmup for hours at first but after a couple weeks it will break in, you still buy car
Buy a house; They tell you the key to the only door won't work at first and it will be a couple weeks before a locksmith can come out and you still buy house.

[Deleted]

Well, answer me this, then. Since the very first day when, again, I fully expected there would be errors logging in due to the millions of people attempting to do the same...since that day, I have not had a single issue logging in. I've heard people who have, but so far, it seems to be the minority.

Now, if those people complain and want their money back because, for two weeks, they have not been able to log in hardly at all due to errors...Yeah, I can definitely see that. But at the beginning of my post, I cited that people were wanting a refund just for it being a "bad game". For any or all of the reasons that I cited. That's my main issue.

In which case, I agree with you. If your main complaint is quality you should have looked into the game before buying it. However, those aren't the only complaints. Server downtime is a valid concern, I'd say, seeing as a paid service isn't being granted to you.

As for you not having had any problem; Right now I struggle just to get into the game. So do my friends around me. One of my friends has gotten used to "Typing in his password and clicking enter for 2 minutes until the game allows him to enter." That's bullshit, son. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Vanamman]

While I do agree about people having to take responsibility of their own actions, your analogies are ridiculously fallacious and incomparable to the Diablo 3 issues all together.

Diablo 3 isn't McDonalds. People aren't complaining about the negative effects D3 is having on their lives.
Diablo 3 isn't an ordered "service" that was mistakenly replaced by another service. No one ordered D3, but ended up getting SC2 instead.

Diablo 3 is a game you bought but were unable to play due to the inability of the company behind it to foresee the amount of players it would have and because of the choices they had made when designing the game. "The always on DRM!" as they call it. That's not NOT taking responsibility for your actions. That's a company failing to give you the service you haven't just ordered but already paid for! Entirely different story than getting a wrong game or some other arbitrary crap.

You want analogies? I'll give you some.

Go to a restaurant; pay up; don't get your food.
Buy yourself a car; Car won't turn on unless you sit in it for 4 hours at a time.
Buy a house; Key to the only door won't work.

These are fitting analogies. Your's are not.
You're tired of people complaining? I've had it with people sticking up for these MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR companies, who make mistakes due to greed and not due to inability. If you feel like Blizzard is defensible, regarding Diablo 3's downtime, ask yourself this: Where the problems avoidable had they invested in avoiding them or not, and then come back to the question whether the failure of a company is the failure of the consumer and not the other way around.

Please tell me why Blizzard would ever spend the extra money for servers that would only be used for a max of a week? No company on this planet would spend that kind of money just to set them aside, never to be used again after the first week or two. You are the type of person that is completely wrong with this world. You expect everything to be handed to you on a platter and it better work damn near perfectly. Please show me a game in recent history that has launched with this many sales and has gone off without any problem. You won't be able to find one. No game that sold as many copies as Diablo 3 will ever launch without a problem. Your analogies are also wrong. Anybody that bought the game is now able to play and was able to play by the middle of the day on the 15th. If they weren't then it wasn't only a problem on Blizzard's end.

[Deleted]

Your analogies are flawed also

Go to a restaurant; They warn that there is a longer than normal wait due to the high volume but you pay up; don't get your food for a long while but it eventually comes
Buy yourself a car; They warn you the car needs to warmup for hours at first but after a couple weeks it will break in, you still buy car
Buy a house; They tell you the key to the only door won't work at first and it will be a couple weeks before a locksmith can come out and you still buy house.

Holy shit, do show me the advertisements with those warnings! This might be a breakthrough!

[TheWerebison]

In which case, I agree with you. If your main complaint is quality you should have looked into the game before buying it. However, those aren't the only complaints. Server downtime is a valid concern, I'd say, seeing as a paid service isn't being granted to you.

As for you not having had any problem; Right now I struggle just to get into the game. So do my friends around me. One of my friends has gotten used to "Typing in his password and clicking enter for 2 minutes until the game allows him to enter." That's bullshit, son. Nothing more, nothing less.

Hah, sorry, I should've been more clear. Are you also in America? Or another country?

And also, are we counting maintenance? That's just something I've gotten used to with all my Blizzard games now. I've already made it a point for myself to expect not to play any of my Blizzard games until late Tuesday afternoon. :P

[Loregasm]

I agree that people need to take responsibility for their own stupidity more, but you're wrong about D3. The simple fact that the game smashed pre-sale records should have allowed Blizzard to have servers prepared to handle the load. Top that off with the fact that Blizzard has released an MMO with 3 expansions, and apparently learned NOTHING about how to handle the release of an online game, and you have gross negligence on the part of Blizzard. I'm not asking for my money back, but I will continue to bitch and moan until my game runs smoothly and without lag. Now, the people complaining about random loot and the length of the actual story, they can go fuck themselves. I knew what I was getting when I bought the game, but being unable to play a single player game (with a multiplayer option) on the day it's released is absolute crap, and Blizzard needs to be held accountable for that.