Vivendi trying to get rid of Activision shares

[xanzul]

It has to do with the value of the company's share price. Vivendi's media portion of the company is very profitable while their Activision-Blizzard portion not so much and has been dragging down the company's value for quite some time.

I'm surprised though that they decided to go with this move, because originally they were looking at splitting Vivendi into two separate companies to increase the value of their media portion while still retaining Activision-Blizzard. Looks like now they're just wanting to unload it and take a lost.

Source: Vivendi thinking of splitting into two http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...y-breakup.html

I'm pretty sure if Activision had to do the merger over again with Blizzard they wouldn't. Last shareholder's report showed the Activision side of the company earning over double the revenue than the Blizzard side. It also showed Activision's profit margin increasing from it's previous year's margin while Blizzard's profit margin showed a 25% decrease from it's previous year.

Source: On page 7 - http://files.shareholder.com/downloa...11AR_FINAL.pdf

For the millionth time Activision merged with Vivendi Games NOT Blizzard Entertainment. Vivendi is considering selling only because they are having some financial issues not because of anything that may or may not be wrong with Activision-Blizzard.

---------- Post added 2012-06-08 at 05:42 AM ----------

It's too bad Richard Garriott isn't as rich as his wacky lifestyle would lead you to believe. I would love for him to have a major stake in the future of Blizzard. He appreciates games for what they are and doesn't necessarily care about world domination and dividends.

You do realize he single handedly destroyed the last mmo he developed right? It shut down literally within months of going live.

---------- Post added 2012-06-08 at 05:45 AM ----------

Apple's free cash is a myth. Only about 10% of it exists in US dollars. The rest is kept in overseas accounts and securities to prevent it from being taxed by the US government (Repatriated overseas funds face taxes when they enter the country. As long as they stay overseas, however, they remain untaxed and free for use in expanding operations there.)

Must be the same kind of myth like when people claim Wow doesn't have 10 million subscribers because somehow inexplicably Asians don't count as people.

---------- Post added 2012-06-08 at 05:48 AM ----------

Anti-trust laws in the US would not allow EA to buy Activision Blizzard.

What on earth are you people talking about? Jesus christ stop parotting moronic bullshit. Look up what anti-trust actually is before spouting off nonsense.

---------- Post added 2012-06-08 at 05:50 AM ----------

Past expansion? Cataclysm?



Strange, that. Cataclysm only sold about 5 million units, and most of those have quit the game

Actually, there are only about 2-3 million subscribers left in thegame. The other 7-8 million are chinese that pay Blizzard less than a dollar a month through pay as you go, due to chinese government restrictions. In other words, not subscribers. But of course the Blizzard marketing department wants you to believe otherwise.

The only people fudging the numbers are the hate brigade who are clearly pissed off that subscriptions seem to be holding at 10 million. Paying accounts are paying accounts and it doesn't matter one iota how much people are paying or where they are located.

[Deleted]

You forgot dividends.

Dividends really aren't worth that much to Vivendi, not compared to a share that is increasing in value.

[Deleted]

I get paid next week. Hope Activision/Blizzard don't find a buyer before then.

[Kelimbror]

Oh to create my Fantasy Land. A land where Blizzard could somehow negotiate it being a separate and wholly owned entity on its own. Where Mike M is the last guy that approves everything, instead of him having to report to x,y,z corporate meetings and 100 shareholder meetings.

A land where games become amazing again. Blizzcon is restored to its heyday and we all rejoice.

#nerdworldproblems

[Dhrizzle]

Past expansion? Cataclysm?



Strange, that. Cataclysm only sold about 5 million units, and most of those have quit the game

Actually, there are only about 2-3 million subscribers left in thegame. The other 7-8 million are chinese that pay Blizzard less than a dollar a month through pay as you go, due to chinese government restrictions. In other words, not subscribers. But of course the Blizzard marketing department wants you to believe otherwise.

Source? Last thing I read said there were about 5 million playing in China paying an average of $5-6 a month.

[Deleted]

I hope Valve buy them, it will end the monopoly on portals that Mages have.

But if Google were to buy it it would take 0.000000045 seconds to find a group for a dungeon.

If it became iWoW, then finally it would just work.

If Microsoft, Hunters would get a new pet, a paperclip.

IF EA, well, I'd rather not go there.

[Hobb]

If the shares are sold I place my money on NCSoft picking them up. Out of all the game publisher companies out there they are one of the wealthiest. For example Activision-Blizzard stock $11.79 per share, EA stock $13.51 per share, and NCSoft stock $135.96 per share.

They already have several MMO developer companies under their umbrella and have the cash reserves to add another one if they want.

[Deficineiron]

Around 4.5 to 5 million normal subscribers from EU and North America, but I think you deserve some credit for managing to crow bar 'MOP will fail' and 'they're lying about sub numbers!!' into a thread about the financial dealing of Vivendi.

I would like to see the math on any claim of 5m western subs. china IS over half the total, then you have korea taiwan, any claim of over 4.5m is a stretch, at best, and that is only if you assume china is just barely over half the total. there is no reason to assume china isn't comfortably more than half, as when the comment was made they had dropped several hundred k there in the quarter and there was no equivocation in the comment.

---------- Post added 2012-06-08 at 03:45 PM ----------

Source? Last thing I read said there were about 5 million playing in China paying an average of $5-6 a month.

the only definitive statement on this is that in teh q3 2011 call, it was stated that 'over half' of wow subs are in china. that puts a lower limit (> 10.3m/2) but no guidance on how much over half.

[schippie]

Question are they talking about purely activision or about both. Since the bloomberg article seems to suggest its only the activision part.

[Deficineiron]

What on earth are you people talking about? Jesus christ stop parotting moronic bullshit. Look up what anti-trust actually is before spouting off nonsense.[COLOR="red"]

to clarify, you don't think the FTC would conduct any public review of such a purchase?

I don't think it would happen anyway (erts/atvi) unless they outright bought the company, which I cannot imagine happening.

[Nero Duskwind]

http://www.vg247.com/2012/06/07/vive...hares-june-22/

One can only speculate why they'd sell off such a money maker. Perhaps they predict CoD sales have peaked and it's better to sell while they're still riding high. I have no idea if Blizzard would be part of the split or if they're still owned by Vivendi.

They're still owned by Vivendi. Activision Blizzard, the holdings company that has both publishing studios, is what Vivendi renamed Vivendi Games to.

[Deficineiron]

Question are they talking about purely activision or about both. Since the bloomberg article seems to suggest its only the activision part.

no matter what people here say, activision and blizzard are a single legal corporate entity in terms of ownership. they are both wholly owned subsidiaries of Activision-Blizzard. a shareholder, even vivendi, cannot 'sell' the blizzard part of their shares.

---------- Post added 2012-06-08 at 03:51 PM ----------

They're still owned by Vivendi. Activision Blizzard, the holdings company that has both publishing studios, is what Vivendi renamed Vivendi Games to.

majority-owned by vivendi, not outright owned. it makes a big difference in issues where minority shareholder rights come up - e.g. vivendi cannot just cut and slice up a/b and sell it piecemeal, and having the board compel a/b to do it would end in entertaining fashion if not handled in a way that benefited ALL shareholders demonstrably.

[schippie]

no matter what people here say, activision and blizzard are a single legal corporate entity in terms of ownership. they are both wholly owned subsidiaries of Activision-Blizzard. a shareholder, even vivendi, cannot 'sell' the blizzard part of their shares.

---------- Post added 2012-06-08 at 03:51 PM ----------



majority-owned by vivendi, not outright owned. it makes a big difference in issues where minority shareholder rights come up - e.g. vivendi cannot just cut and slice up a/b and sell it piecemeal, and having the board compel a/b to do it would end in entertaining fashion if not handled in a way that benefited ALL shareholders demonstrably.

The problem i have with this is:

Activision Blizzard == Vivendi Games

Has always been that way. The fact that they seem to be wanting to get rid of Activision suggest that they are going to keep Blizzard.
Meaning it would referd to the state prior to the merge.

[Deficineiron]

The problem i have with this is:

Activision Blizzard == Vivendi Games

Has always been that way. The fact that they seem to be wanting to get rid of Activision suggest that they are going to keep Blizzard.
Meaning it would referd to the state prior to the merge.

this would have to be done by a/b (split the 2 entities). vivendi selling their shares is in no position to do this directly. everything I have read implies they want OUT, period.

the confusion about activision probably results from the fact the press and most people refer to the company as 'activision.'

[Lothaeryn]

"Skyrocket" is very optimistic, this will be the first WoW Xpac I will not buy for sure. Odds are, an asian company like Nexon or NCsoft will pick them up.

Place bets now!~

NCsoft is the publisher of Guild Wars 2, I personally doubt they would buy into A/B, but its possible nonetheless.

Still, considering the amount of Leeway they gave Arenanet to develop GW2, I'm not sure that's actually a bad thing if they bought em out, better than EA.

[Deleted]

Blizzard is like 3 games. Activision is like a million games.

Why are people surprised at the difference in scale?

Yet those 3 games make up 80-90% of their yearly revenue.

---------- Post added 2012-06-08 at 04:13 PM ----------

Translation: They made a booboo buying Blizzard, because their games don't show the kind of growth they had in mind. WoW is in a steep decline, Diablo & Starcraft can only field expacks, and Project Titan hasn't even been announced and is years from market.

You obviously don't know what steep decline is. It's time to get educated son.

[Hobb]

They're still owned by Vivendi. Activision Blizzard, the holdings company that has both publishing studios, is what Vivendi renamed Vivendi Games to.

A lot of people not familiar with the stock market and how stocks work seem to think if someone owns the majority of a company's stock they are the company's owner, but it doesn't work that way.

Ownership is decided by voting shares which in turn allows the owner/owners to influence the election of the company's board of directors. Some shares are voting stock, other non-voting stock, and yet others partial voting stock. Vivendi's falls primarily in the non-voting stock with majority of voting stock going to Activision's CEO, thus placing Activision as the controlling partner. But with Activision-Blizzard's CEO selling half of his shares earlier this year I'm not sure if that's true anymore or not.

For the millionth time Activision merged with Vivendi Games NOT Blizzard Entertainment. Vivendi is considering selling only because they are having some financial issues not because of anything that may or may not be wrong with Activision-Blizzard.

Vivendi Games wholly owned Blizzard Entertainment and Sierra Entertainment, so same thing. Also Vivendi Games =/= Vivendi, Vivendi was the holding company of Vivendi Games.

As far as financial with Activision-Blizzard, yes it is. When Activision merged with Vivendi Games Activision's stock was valued at $27.50 a share, since the merger the stock has dropped in value to $11.79 a share. Vivendi has already lost half of it's investment and it's dragging the company's over all value down.

Clip from a news article back in 2008:
SANTA MONICA, Calif., Jul 08, 2008 (BUSINESS WIRE) — Activision, Inc. (Nasdaq: ATVI) today announced that, at a special meeting of stockholders held earlier today, it received the stockholder approval necessary to consummate the company's agreement with Vivendi, S.A. to combine Vivendi Games, Vivendi's interactive entertainment business, with Activision's businesses. All of the proposals required to effect the transaction received more than 92 percent of the shares voted. The transaction is expected to close on or around July 9, 2008.

Activision and Vivendi Games will combine their businesses through the merger of a newly formed, wholly-owned subsidiary of Activision with and into Vivendi Games. As a result of the merger, Vivendi Games, the parent company of Blizzard Entertainment and Sierra, will become a wholly-owned subsidiary of Activision. Vivendi will receive approximately 295.3 million newly issued shares of Activision common stock. Concurrently with the merger, Vivendi will purchase approximately 62.9 million newly issued shares of Activision common stock at a price of $27.50 per share for a total of approximately $1.7 billion in cash, resulting in a total Vivendi ownership stake in Activision Blizzard of approximately 52% on a fully diluted basis and approximately 54% of shares outstanding. As of the closing of the transaction, Activision will be renamed Activision Blizzard and will continue to operate as a public company traded on NASDAQ under the ticker ATVI.

And source to the article: http://kotaku.com/5023049/activision...erger-official

[Deficineiron]

A lot of people not familiar with the stock market and how stocks work seem to think if someone owns the majority of a company's stock they are the company's owner, but it doesn't work that way.

Ownership is decided by voting shares which in turn allows the owner/owners to influence the election of the company's board of directors. Some shares are voting stock, other non-voting stock, and yet others partial voting stock. Vivendi's falls primarily in the non-voting stock with majority of voting stock going to Activision's CEO, thus placing Activision as the controlling partner. But with Activision-Blizzard's CEO selling half of his shares earlier this year I'm not sure if that's true anymore or not.



Vivendi Games wholly owned Blizzard Entertainment and Sierra Entertainment, so same thing. Also Vivendi Games =/= Vivendi, Vivendi was the holding company of Vivendi Games.

As far as financial with Activision-Blizzard, yes it is. When Activision merged with Vivendi Games Activision's stock was valued at $27.50 a share, since the merger the stock has dropped in value to $11.79 a share. Vivendi has already lost half of it's investment and it's dragging the company's over all value down.

Clip from a news article back in 2008:
SANTA MONICA, Calif., Jul 08, 2008 (BUSINESS WIRE) — Activision, Inc. (Nasdaq: ATVI) today announced that, at a special meeting of stockholders held earlier today, it received the stockholder approval necessary to consummate the company's agreement with Vivendi, S.A. to combine Vivendi Games, Vivendi's interactive entertainment business, with Activision's businesses. All of the proposals required to effect the transaction received more than 92 percent of the shares voted. The transaction is expected to close on or around July 9, 2008.

Activision and Vivendi Games will combine their businesses through the merger of a newly formed, wholly-owned subsidiary of Activision with and into Vivendi Games. As a result of the merger, Vivendi Games, the parent company of Blizzard Entertainment and Sierra, will become a wholly-owned subsidiary of Activision. Vivendi will receive approximately 295.3 million newly issued shares of Activision common stock. Concurrently with the merger, Vivendi will purchase approximately 62.9 million newly issued shares of Activision common stock at a price of $27.50 per share for a total of approximately $1.7 billion in cash, resulting in a total Vivendi ownership stake in Activision Blizzard of approximately 52% on a fully diluted basis and approximately 54% of shares outstanding. As of the closing of the transaction, Activision will be renamed Activision Blizzard and will continue to operate as a public company traded on NASDAQ under the ticker ATVI.

And source to the article: http://kotaku.com/5023049/activision...erger-official

I didn't realize the issue about voting rights, that is interesting, makes more sense that Kotick would have come out with highest voting shares. I always had trouble figuring how he would have given up effective control of the company.

As far as the share decline, I wonder if prior to the annc of merger, atvi traded based on speculation of it being a takeout target. share performance since the merger has been unimpressive, to say the least. Given interest rates, it is almost a dividend play :/

[Hobb]

I didn't realize the issue about voting rights, that is interesting, makes more sense that Kotick would have come out with highest voting shares. I always had trouble figuring how he would have given up effective control of the company.

As far as the share decline, I wonder if prior to the annc of merger, atvi traded based on speculation of it being a takeout target. share performance since the merger has been unimpressive, to say the least. Given interest rates, it is almost a dividend play :/

I noticed I didn't make it that clear in my post, sorry about that. The $27.50 a share was the speculative stock price of Activision-Blizzard once the merger took place, but like Facebook the speculation was highly over valued. Prior to the merger Vivendi Games if I remember correctly was ~$8 per share and Activision about ~$11 per share. I added Activision's stock to my portfolio back in Dec 2007 prior to the merger at $14 a share, but the stock peaked after the merger at little under $19 and since then has been on a downhill slide. I sold my shares when the stock dropped to $15 a share in the fall of 2008, if I didn't I would be looking at a lost right about now.

[Thetruth1400]

Of course the big question is, who would buy it?

If it were closer to some release dates, say MoP and CoD: Black Ops II, I would. Those games will see a spike in the stock overall, so it's a sound investment to buy it now, then sell it off right after the release of those big named games.