[MoP] Guarded by the Light

[Deleted]

Recently i picked up mop and noticed a certain element from the Guarded by the Light is missing .
Pre patch as a talent It used to give us a shield on WoG overheal , now it doesn't seam to exist anymore.

I would like a comfirmation if anyone else noticed this, and is the sacred shield the blizzards answer to this removal ?

Thanks in advance.

[Rivin]

The overheal shield removal was intentional. They want Shield of the Righteous to be our proactive mitigation tool while Word of Glory is our reactive mitigation tool.

[Deleted]

Is this the effect of SOTR in MoP?
"reducing the physical damage you take by 30% for 3 sec, and causing Bastion of Glory."

if so this could be considered a nerf in terms of reducing high magic burst.

[Rivin]

Yeah, ShoR is for physical damage only. It's definitely a change, but we'll be balanced around not having that shield, and magic damage is usually not going to kill you more often than you have cooldowns ready. Save a five-stack WoG for right after those big magic bursts if you know one is coming soon.

[Deleted]

Yeah, ShoR is for physical damage only. It's definitely a change, but we'll be balanced around not having that shield, and magic damage is usually not going to kill you more often than you have cooldowns ready. Save a five-stack WoG for right after those big magic bursts if you know one is coming soon.

My concern was not there. I'm sure they'll make sure we're viable for mop but with the removal of this element it'll give us 1 less way to react to magical attacks/burst. I hope that they recreate a trinket similar to the mirror otherwise we won't be left with much for magic burst.

[Aceshigh]

My concern was not there. I'm sure they'll make sure we're viable for mop but with the removal of this element it'll give us 1 less way to react to magical attacks/burst. I hope that they recreate a trinket similar to the mirror otherwise we won't be left with much for magic burst.

There are no resistances in MoP (unless I missed them putting them back in), so there wont be another mirror.

[Deleted]

There are no resistances in MoP (unless I missed them putting them back in), so there wont be another mirror.

The resistance trinkets helped the shield classes alot, I wonder how they plan going around this.(if at all)

[Malthanis]

The resistance trinkets helped the shield classes alot, I wonder how they plan going around this.(if at all)

Divine Protection is, by default, 40% magic damage reduction now (and still on a 1 min. CD, if I remember correctly).

Technically, WoG will still remain our answer to large bursts. The only difference is that we're going to have to wait until after the hit, rather than before.

[Deleted]

Divine Protection is, by default, 40% magic damage reduction now (and still on a 1 min. CD, if I remember correctly).

Technically, WoG will still remain our answer to large bursts. The only difference is that we're going to have to wait until after the hit, rather than before.

Personally, I don't like the direction the spec is going to.

"Divine Protection is, by default, 40% magic damage reduction now (and still on a 1 min. CD, if I remember correctly)."

They just inverted it from how it is on live. In this case i'd rather have the standard 20/20 instead of the 40 % magic . We're and probably will be taken for the fights which have higher physical dmg taken (Not talking about viable but rather optimal). By doing this they give us 1 less glyph choice on the fights on which we're preferred. If they do intend to keep this i much rather have the DK version ( namely AMS (shorter cd and with glyph comp magic immunity !)

"Technically, WoG will still remain our answer to large bursts. The only difference is that we're going to have to wait until after the hit, rather than before."

The only (HUGE) difference is that we now have 1 less mechanic/utility . Now WoG is a shield/heal after mop hits it'll be just a heal, I don't even have to talk about how big this is. A Shield is always better than a heal since it's overheal potential is 0 and in most cases you won't even benefit from WoG where a shield could've saved your life. ( Mechanics like the imaple from Madness are a an example)

[Malthanis]

They just inverted it from how it is on live. In this case i'd rather have the standard 20/20 instead of the 40 % magic . We're and probably will be taken for the fights which have higher physical dmg taken (Not talking about viable but rather optimal). By doing this they give us 1 less glyph choice on the fights on which we're preferred. If they do intend to keep this i much rather have the DK version ( namely AMS (shorter cd and with glyph comp magic immunity !)

It's actually a full inversion. The glyph changes it back to 20% damage reduction overall. My only guess is that they saw an overwhelming majority of paladins taking the current DP glyph and made the decision to make that the baseline.

The only (HUGE) difference is that we now have 1 less mechanic/utility . Now WoG is a shield/heal after mop hits it'll be just a heal, I don't even have to talk about how big this is. A Shield is always better than a heal since it's overheal potential is 0 and in most cases you won't even benefit from WoG where a shield could've saved your life. ( Mechanics like the imaple from Madness are a an example)

Which is where the 'reactive' nature of the new WoG theory comes in. It encourages tanks to pay attention to those large, mostly unmitigated bursts of damage (usually magical). Psychic Drain on Zon'ozz is a good example of this. On live, you'll hit WoG before the spell is cast to get your overshield ready. After the 5.0 patch, you'll hold your finger on the key and hit it immediately after the spell takes that chunk out of your health. The difference between live and beta is that you'll be rewarded for knowing when to best utilize WoG (i.e. when it would cause minimum overheal).

[Deleted]

It's actually a full inversion. The glyph changes it back to 20% damage reduction overall. My only guess is that they saw an overwhelming majority of paladins taking the current DP glyph and made the decision to make that the baseline.

Like said an unnecessary change that just gimps us. For most fights you'll want the glyph . By inversion i meant the glyphed/unglyphed relation.

Which is where the 'reactive' nature of the new WoG theory comes in. It encourages tanks to pay attention to those large, mostly unmitigated bursts of damage (usually magical). Psychic Drain on Zon'ozz is a good example of this. On live, you'll hit WoG before the spell is cast to get your overshield ready. After the 5.0 patch, you'll hold your finger on the key and hit it immediately after the spell takes that chunk out of your health. The difference between live and beta is that you'll be rewarded for knowing when to best utilize WoG (i.e. when it would cause minimum overheal).

I'm afraid you misunderstood me.
By taking down the shield utility of the spell they're not only gimping us ,but aswell dumbing down the game aswell. In my opinion timing the wog by watching the swing timer of the boss (and bossmodes or ingame warnings) and hitting it just after the melee swing and before the drain required much better timing(if you missed, your shield would absorb the melee). After the 5.0 you'll just be like " ooo my health dipped WoG " .

Now i'm not concerned by the difficulty change ( since both is very easy to execute ) but rather the utility loss and 1 less way to react in the situations where wog doesn't even come in . ( namely those close to 1 shot hits ) As for getting that WoG in after the hit if something significant is coming afterwards the healers will top you off 0.1 secs before the attack hits anyway.

[Malthanis]

Like said an unnecessary change that just gimps us. For most fights you'll want the glyph . By inversion i meant the glyphed/unglyphed relation.

How is it an unnecessary change or gimp if a majority of paladins already had the glyph? This is essentially freeing up a glyph slot for us.

I'm afraid you misunderstood me.
By taking down the shield utility of the spell they're not only gimping us ,but aswell dumbing down the game aswell. In my opinion timing the wog by watching the swing timer of the boss (and bossmodes or ingame warnings) and hitting it just after the melee swing and before the drain required much better timing(if you missed, your shield would absorb the melee). After the 5.0 you'll just be like " ooo my health dipped WoG " .

Now i'm not concerned by the difficulty change ( since both is very easy to execute ) but rather the utility loss and 1 less way to react in the situations where wog doesn't even come in . ( namely those close to 1 shot hits ) As for getting that WoG in after the hit if something significant is coming afterwards the healers will top you off 0.1 secs before the attack hits anyway.

There's more to WoG in Mists with the change to our Mastery as well. We'll need to maintain Bastion of Glory stacks in order to make sure WoG reaches it's maximum potential. Actively spending our resources in order to ensure future survivability is what tanking is supposed to be about with their redesign.

[Rivin]

Like said an unnecessary change that just gimps us. For most fights you'll want the glyph . By inversion i meant the glyphed/unglyphed relation.

Personally I'd much rather have a 40% magic-DR in addition to a 20% all-DR than two 20% all-DRs. (Yes, Divine Protection has a shorter cooldown than Ardent Defender, but Ardent Defender is usually ready again by the time I need it.)

[Deleted]

How is it an unnecessary change or gimp if a majority of paladins already had the glyph? This is essentially freeing up a glyph slot for us.

Let's not forget that this was only your guess there and i'd have to say it's wrong. Only a minority of fights actualy benefit from the unglyphed version .

For progression, paladins were and probably will only be preffered for fights with high physical damage. In this scenario where the prot paladin shines he's gimped by having 1 less glyph choice ! For Magic fights you'll most likely preffer a dk tank anyway.(not saying paladins are not viable for magic fights)

"There's more to WoG in Mists with the change to our Mastery as well. We'll need to maintain Bastion of Glory stacks in order to make sure WoG reaches it's maximum potential. Actively spending our resources in order to ensure future survivability is what tanking is supposed to be about with their redesign."

I welcome most changes coming to it.. just that the removal of this huge utility is a shame.

Personally I'd much rather have a 40% magic-DR in addition to a 20% all-DR than two 20% all-DRs. (Yes, Divine Protection has a shorter cooldown than Ardent Defender, but Ardent Defender is usually ready again by the time I need it.)

I'm sure you'd change your mind on a purely Physical fight in which the unglyphed DP does nothing. Only a minority of fights is either purely physical or magical (in my experience more purely physical fights). In most cases with the 20/20 you can't go wrong in 90 % of the fights, that's why i'm surprised with his guess.

[Rivin]

I'm sure you'd change your mind on a purely Physical fight in which the unglyphed DP does nothing. Only a minority of fights is either purely physical or magical (in my experience more purely physical fights). In most cases with the 20/20 you can't go wrong in 90 % of the fights, that's why i'm surprised with his guess.

Well, sure, but that's why glyphs can be changed anywhere at any time out of combat. Just looking at DS, only one fight (Morchok) is all physical, and that's only if you're tanking. I think swapping the base and glyph effects was the smartest move for the vast majority of paladins in PvE--otherwise pretty much every PvE paladin would have a mandatory glyph, and that's not what Blizzard wants.

[Deleted]

Well, sure, but that's why glyphs can be changed anywhere at any time out of combat. Just looking at DS, only one fight (Morchok) is all physical, and that's only if you're tanking. I think swapping the base and glyph effects was the smartest move for the vast majority of paladins in PvE--otherwise pretty much every PvE paladin would have a mandatory glyph, and that's not what Blizzard wants.

If you read up you'll understand my point abit more. The problem at hand is that we loose 1 glyph for fights we're usualy picked for. I just don't understand the whole point of them inverting how it works in mop. The way it works now is perfect.. you have overall dmg reduction and for magic fights ( if you end up tanking them ) you can swap glyphs. Swaping glyphs was never taken into question ( it's been a must for a while now ).

As for Magical vs Physical fights .. there was not even 1 purely magical fight. The closest you can get to a magical fight would be Yor'sahj (where we sucked initially even with the glyph/trinket .. just can't compare to DK's).

The only thing we can hope for they revert this change as physical fights are our virtue.

[Pool of the Dead]

Tanks becoming re-active based is a good thing. It will show the difference between a good and bad tank, just as it has with DK's over Cata.

Also glyph changes are quick as hell to do, so if you have a fight that needs 20/20 DP you glyph it, if its heavy magic fight, you change back, it is actually a buff being able to do that between fights.

Not one class has "vices" anymore, all the tanks have pretty much got everything covered on both fronts.

I very much hope the Beta changes stay, and would also suggest playing it more, since you said you've only just picked BETA up, it is probably weird to you because its just new.

also must say, A LOT! of fights in MoP have heavy magic damage.

[Malthanis]

The only thing we can hope for they revert this change as physical fights are our vice.

Wait, what? Since when have we had issues with physical damage fights?

[Rivin]

Purely for tanking, yes, swapping the effects wasn't entirely necessary. But paladins have two other specs, and I'd be pretty confident in saying that the vast majority of paladins aren't Protection.

A fight doesn't have to be purely magical for a magic damage cooldown to be useful. Things like Psychic Drain and Tetanus are extremely nasty magical damage in mostly physical fights. Having a short-cooldown magic DR is preferable to me--we still have two other cooldowns for nasty physical attacks, which are considerably rarer than nasty magical attacks.

And, of course, the "preferable to me" part is key there--you still have the choice to do what's preferable to you. It's not like our major glyphs are all that great anyway, so you're not losing much (if anything) by taking the glyph if that's what you prefer.

[Deleted]

Purely for tanking, yes, swapping the effects wasn't entirely necessary. But paladins have two other specs, and I'd be pretty confident in saying that the vast majority of paladins aren't Protection.

You're aware who depends on DmG reduction Cds most?
Image how much holy paladins would be raging if they changed WoG to give half defense / half (i'm sure someone could make a better example) heal and then offered them a glyph to fix that.

"A fight doesn't have to be purely magical for a magic damage cooldown to be useful. Things like Psychic Drain and Tetanus are extremely nasty magical damage in mostly physical fights. Having a short-cooldown magic DR is preferable to me--we still have two other cooldowns for nasty physical attacks, which are considerably rarer than nasty magical attacks."

Assuming we're talking about progression where every single little bit counts ( since you're undergeared) that 1 glyph could mean a whole lot. For magic fights we usualy won't even be considered in mop ( at the start of progression ) so that change is just horrible in that sense.

You gave Psychic Drain and Tetanus as an example but you do realise that the melee hits from Warlord and the impales on madness are much more Dangerous. Having that 20 % physical reduction after the drain means alot on warlord. As for imaple i don't even have to talk about that.

Physical dmg is the virtue of paladins we love it as soon as we don't see any we become weak. Just take Yorsahj as an example.