Inc Ele Nerfs?

[Roosky]

Hunters are the most op class in beta atm lol

[Sarevokcz]

the BiS lists arnt final until closer til mop but I read crit could be higher because of our high crit dmg is like 259% or something?

looking at sims, ~45% damage isnt affected by crit, while ~47% damage isnt affected by mastery, 1% crit, that increases damage by 150% needs 600 rating, just as 2% for overload, which increases two spells by 75%, so its about equal in that regard, slightly in favor of crit with metagem

In the end, the secondary benefits (Clearcasting / LS charges) will probably decide which one is better, but with t14 bonus and the abundance of LS charges and potentially alot of wasted charges for several reasons (>12s windows every time we need to refresh FlS, stacks stack by 2, so when at 5 charges and both LB and overload proc RT, 2 charges are wasted since it looks like 5stack ES wont be really worth it etc) I wouldnt be too much surprised if crit was better.

On that note, I certainly wouldnt mind if LS charges could stack up to 9, but ES could unleash only up to 6 charges, so we had some buffer for those procs (after all, paladins got it with HP, destrolocks with the haste-for-inci-whatsitsname, mages with Finger of Frost I think etc)

[Deleted]

I seriously doubt that they nerf elemental the damage is not over the top.


Its going to hit Hunters,Moonkins,Mages,Shadow priests,probably warlocks.

I wonder if they're going to tune caster damage down to melee or if they're gonna nerf casters slightly and tune melee up.

[akris15]

can you actually read or were you dropped on your head?

Oh I can read...and I can read without making knee jerk reactions.

You are soon going to see damage go down for several classes and specs in cases where we overshot our targets or fixed bugs that required adjustments. Hunters are likely among these.

I am mentioning this because what inevitably happens is a host of posts across the Internet saying that x is now gutted, won't get a raid slot, needs to reroof, was middle of the pack at best, and so on. It is most helpful to us if you want to argue that your DPS is too low (or high if you are being unusually honest) that you are specific about what situations you are talking about, against who you are comparing numbers and what those numbers are. If the Windwalker is doing 300,000 DPS in your challenge run, chances are that is not our new target.

(As I told my team recently, had I better access to a PC at the moment (I'm a long way from home as you can probably guess by the posting times), I would make a new version of the Ned Stark brace yourself meme image.)


I don't see any indication of Elemental Nerfs or any target but hunters. Sure you can predict who might get a dps downgrade but until that happens why argue or go to the forums claiming the sky is falling? Also this post is no different than what they have been doing the past few weeks, that tuning is going to continue to happen and bugs will be fixed, classes will go up and down,this isn't a special blue post in anyway. Basically you fall into that group Ghostcrawler is making fun off. If you think Elemental DPS is too low after this "incoming nerf" then provide parses, sim results, ect to prove otherwise in their theorycrafting thread. There is no indication outside hunters that they are going to lose dps, therefore this is a sky is falling forum thread that only will result in QQ without any other justification other than people's own personal opinons that isn't back up with anything else. I am just saying all this thread will accomplish is QQ because its pure speculation, wait until the nerfs happen before claiming the sky is falling.

[Deleted]

I'm expecting to see some downward adjustments in the mage (all specs), hunter (all specs), druid (balance), monk (windwalker), and warlock (demo) camps.

I wouldn't be surprised if they nerfed primal elementalist for dps shamans.

Arcane Mages are already extremely underpowered, Ele Shamans are slightly underpowered too.

[Deleted]

"You are soon going to see damage go down for several classes and specs in cases where we overshot our targets or fixed bugs that required adjustments."

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...-hunter-nerfs/


Who thinks Ele will be getting nerfed?

From the few 25m logs i saw, they were far behind hunters and warlocks meaing 30 or even 60%, but so are most dds right now.

From what i saw, elemental is at the lower end of dps in raiding so don't expect any nerfs for pve reasons. I was surprised that our burst is still one of the weaker.

Enahncement also was pretty low, i hope it was just a bad player (but his performance was scarry, even over 20% behind dks).


The beta is totally broken right now, there will be some heavy shifts. But overall Shamans are at the lower end of dps right now.

[oberetta]

I have been having a blast as Ele and think we are actually in a pretty good spot (for a change) so I would be surprised if we are a target of the incoming nerfbat. Some classes/specs are clearly broken right now but we dont feel like one of them IMO.

As for the simcraft results, I agree that some of the details struck me as a little odd but I am sure that will get refined quite a bit in the next several weeks. If anything, I would guess that the simcraft results are a bit low for elew and will get better for us while some of the outliers return to the pack.

[Kralljin]

But overall Shamans are at the lower end of dps right now.

Can't agree with this, as Elemental i was able to battle for 1st and 2nd place on most single target fights.

[Deleted]

Elemental
Spiritual Insight Reduces the cooldown of your Earth Shock and Flame Shock spells by 1 sec.

dps nerf huh?

[Deleted]

Can't agree with this, as Elemental i was able to battle for 1st and 2nd place on most single target fights.

25m in top raid?

I just watched videos, the ele shaman moving around at p3 to p6 at the beginning and slowing and falling to 10-13.

And because everyone is scaled to the same gear level, i think its representative for the current state of PVE. Overall, the damage shamans averaged worse than P10 out of 16-17. (13 , 12, 16, 6, 14, 7 ) So it's the middle of the pack with tendencies to the lower end.

But if you have 25m logs, i'd love to see them. I was pretty disappointed that in the loggs of the hunter posting, enhancer was very low and resto was overall always worse than the monk healer. To take a closer look, you have to subselect some timeframes. I think that if they nerf some other classes ahead (especially bm hunters) we are going to see some competive elemental shamans. From those logs i would really fear for enhancer since there are nearly no enhancer loggs and this one looks really bad.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...-hunter-nerfs/

[Deleted]

25m in top raid?

I just watched videos, the ele shaman moving around at p3 to p6 at the beginning and slowing and falling to 10-13.

And because everyone is scaled to the same gear level, i dont think it's tat way.

But if you have 25m logs, i'd love to see them. I was pretty disappointed that in the loggs of the hunter posting, enhancer was very low and resto was overall always worse than the monk healer.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...-hunter-nerfs/

HPS is pretty irrelevant if you want to compare healers

[Endus]

25m in top raid?

I know several people who are ranking on live, and are raiding on the beta as Elemental and doing well relative to their other high-performance guildmates.

I haven't seen any credible evidence showing Elemental is suffering.

[Protoman]

So Ele got a PVP buff.....Spiritual insights reduces Earth and Flame shock by 1 sec. Rejoice!! Not exactly unlinking shock Cd's but makes it slightly easier to use a DPS shock after using FRS.....2 sec prob would feel more noticeable but meh, its a good start.

[Kralljin]

25m in top raid?

I would want to know if your dps hugely differs between 10man and 25man?

[Deleted]

So Ele got a PVP buff.....Spiritual insights reduces Earth and Flame shock by 1 sec. Rejoice!! Not exactly unlinking shock Cd's but makes it slightly easier to use a DPS shock after using FRS.....2 sec prob would feel more noticeable but meh, its a good start.

Seems pretty weird that they don't want to include frost shock. But I think they finally found some old, outdated, dusty spec called elemental and figured they would throw a few buffs, which have been amazing in the past builds.

[Deleted]

I would want to know if your dps hugely differs between 10man and 25man?

It's about comparison Nobody here knows if 44k dps is good or bad.

To get a little chance of comparison, 25m is a lot better since nearly every specc is represented there.

And from my experience, a better player was always turning this upside down. In 10m, i saw a lot of crazy stuff because actually you have small sample size of 4 other dds, while in a 25m raid, it's more like 15 other damage dealers.

[binkenstein]

The ele sim looks interesting but flawed, reforging mastery to crit? sure thing bro...

Yes, it is. It depends on a number of factors like L90 talent selection, but it is fairly accurate.

also isn't EM>EotE? and for single target fight glyph of TC>CL? cause from the sim i see no using at all of CL and 46 wasted LS charge Oo

I was getting EM>Echo because I wasn't accounting for bloodlust gains for Echo/AS (it starts getting complicated in a model to handle all of those conditions). Even then EM was not too far ahead so it's not that surprising.

This BiS List seems weird as well.

Why did they choose

http://mop.wowhead.com/item=87080

instead of http://mop.wowhead.com/item=87065 ?

Is there some serious difference gainwise between these trinkets?

Yes, passive Int > passive secondary stats, generally speaking, although don't worry too much about the BiS List because it's a very rough pre-lim (I had to do all the reforge calcs by hand, for example)

the BiS lists arnt final until closer til mop but I read crit could be higher because of our high crit dmg is like 259% or something?

No, it depends on whether you take PE as your L90 talent. Fire Elemental scales much better with crit rating than haste, and of course it's not affected by mastery at all. It's this that pushes it up to that level.

looking at sims, ~45% damage isnt affected by crit, while ~47% damage isnt affected by mastery, 1% crit, that increases damage by 150% needs 600 rating, just as 2% for overload, which increases two spells by 75%, so its about equal in that regard, slightly in favor of crit with metagem

In the end, the secondary benefits (Clearcasting / LS charges) will probably decide which one is better, but with t14 bonus and the abundance of LS charges and potentially alot of wasted charges for several reasons (>12s windows every time we need to refresh FlS, stacks stack by 2, so when at 5 charges and both LB and overload proc RT, 2 charges are wasted since it looks like 5stack ES wont be really worth it etc) I wouldnt be too much surprised if crit was better.

On that note, I certainly wouldnt mind if LS charges could stack up to 9, but ES could unleash only up to 6 charges, so we had some buffer for those procs (after all, paladins got it with HP, destrolocks with the haste-for-inci-whatsitsname, mages with Finger of Frost I think etc)

I don't see how you produced those numbers. Lava Burst is the only spell not directly scaling with crit, which contributes 31.3% of the total damage there. Another 31.2% isn't affected by Mastery. The ratings were also reduced recently, you can see a list of the new values here

dps nerf huh?

It's more of a Quality of Life change rather than a dps buff/nerf. The T14 4pc bonus generates a lot of shield charges.

It's also worth noting that being top of the dps meter means very little in class balance terms, especially in 10man. It's dependent on player skill and buff availability in addition to the overall class "DPS position".

[Deleted]

I know several people who are ranking on live, and are raiding on the beta as Elemental and doing well relative to their other high-performance guildmates.

I haven't seen any credible evidence showing Elemental is suffering.

IF you would have read to end, i reconsidered elemental being pretty much in the middle. But if you actually have some logs you can post, yeah that's evidence i'd love to see. Its just taht in a 10m raid, you have nearly no comparison. Every raid group is different so 44k dps might be overpowered or pretty weak, depending on tactics and so on.

But there's definitely no PVE reason for nerfing elemental. And so far, enhancement stays a well hidden secret, but those loggs really scare me off becuase the enhancer always was at the very bottom of dps. His dps stayed unless during ascendence, but even then was weaker. Look a little closer to those loggs.

[Kralljin]

It's about comparison Nobody here knows if 44k dps is good or bad.

To get a little chance of comparison, 25m is a lot better since nearly every specc is represented there.

And from my experience, a better player was always turning this upside down. In 10m, i saw a lot of crazy stuff because actually you have small sample size of 4 other dds, while in a 25m raid, it's more like 15 other damage dealers.

Idk, in our Raid we had decent Dps Classes, Mage, Sp, Warlock (Pre nerf ofc), Hunter and such.

In a 25man Raid it's also biased because you can have like 3-4 ppl of the best dps class and you're already out of the best 3.
My point is, i am doing compareable numbers to other dps classes, just because there's a 3-4% difference the sky won't fall.

---------- Post added 2012-08-02 at 08:33 PM ----------

Yes, passive Int > passive secondary stats, generally speaking, although don't worry too much about the BiS List because it's a very rough pre-lim (I had to do all the reforge calcs by hand, for example)

But isn't Proc Int better in combination with PE?

I know snapshotting won't work but this trinket can cover 1/3 of the PE duration and i think it's crucial to get as much damage as possible out of the fire elemental.

[Nebria]

can somebody tell me how to play wih PE?
The fireelemental has a cd to buff my dmg by 5% (hope the number is right). it is channeled (during that time the fe is not attacking right?) and has 10s cd. so does that mean I use this on cd all the time?