PvE players put too much hope into Guild Wars 2 ?

[obdigore]

I'm sick of having to worry that this asshole I'm succesfully owning in pvp is going to get a heal from other player and turn the tide of battle into his favor.

You realize that I, as an ele, can drop heals on him from a ways away, right? not huge heals, but a couple thousand from each on 10-20 second timers? I can also blow you away from him, cripple you, slow you, and do all sorts of other things. If someone who was a healer in PvP is close enough to you to drop a heal on the guy you are owning, they are close enough in GW2 to absolutely mess up anything you are trying to do.

[Grable]

What OP is saying: "I just realized Guild Wars 2 is not for me and I prefer WoW-type games"
What I'm thinking: "Has the OP not read any info and realized that before he actually spent money on a game he wouldn't like?"

[abysscrystal]

All that got me thinking though: what is it that I enjoyed in an mmo? I liked adventuring with friends, getting more powerful and clearing content. I loved that feeling of gaining a new weapon that obliterated the stats of my old one and the thrill of pushing my damage to the absolute maximum.

The gear treadmill is already there, while you levelling you get more and more powerful items and I think it won't be a huge effort to add "raid-like" very hard instances with slightly better loot into the game later on. It's a fresh new code, I am 100% sure they are prepared to do this and they will do, when the numbers starts to fall.

I wouldn't worry about this right now, just level up and see what happens at level 80, how hard the explorable modes are, how hard the endgame DEs are and what loot they will give.

[Morrowind]

"I wanna get my stats fast and easy and preferably solo and only THEN play the actual game for cosmetic items."

The problem with this for GW2 is you are playing the game from the start, meaning by the time you hit 80 you would have experienced the bulk of things there is to do. The rest is done for cosmetic items.

[Granyala]

But does it matter in the long run?

It's simply a means to an end.

Edit: Dude's post is gone oO
He was asking whether it's good to get a shield with +40 block on it and run the dungeon multiple times to get it b/c it only adds 0.2% survival to your character.

Yes it does and boy are you wrong!

The gear treadmill works b/c we all know that there will be content in the future where we NEED that gear to be able to do it. That's the sole motivation behind the farming process. If we knew we wouldn't need the gear of lets say Firelands to clear Dragonsoul, we'd run Firelands a few times b/c it's fun and that would be it.

You can see the "guild wars effect" now in WoW. A new addon is on the horizon, we all know that the raiding gear we get now will be obsolete as soon as it launches b/c of the reset. So what's the result? Motivation to do hard stuff and wipe a lot is at an all time low and raids are canceled b/c there aren't enough players available. Why? b/c peeps have been doing Dragonsoul for a few months already and are bored of it. Been there, seen that...

[Morrowind]

It's hard to find anything in this forum I agree with honestly. I like WoW and GW2 for entirely different reasons because they are radically dissimilar games.

I'm glad this thread poster actually thought about what he had to say, said it in a kind and informative manner, and actually went beneath the surface of the games. The psychology of gaming is incredibly important to the success of games, and very few people realize this.

An example of this is that a game designed by entirely by consensus among gamers would be an awful game.



The thing is that Guild Wars 2 doesn't HAVE to have any endgame. Fable, Mass Effect, and The Witcher 2 all have no endgame. The game ends when you finish the content.

I'm not saying I agree with that (or disagree with that), but you need to challenge your own expectations for the genre (and the genre itself needs to be better defined).

Thank you for understanding what I meant. Many GW2 fans want to see it defeat WoW and be the thing to last for years on end, when really it was never designed to do so. It is a "short term" gaming experience like any other game we play that isn't WoW/Rift.

[Kelesti]

Thank you for understanding what I meant. Many GW2 fans want to see it defeat WoW and be the thing to last for years on end, when really it was never designed to do so. It is a "short term" gaming experience like any other game we play that isn't WoW/Rift.

How can a game which follows a similar model to its predecessor be "short term"? Especially when said predecessor lasted a solid 7 years and is still going?

[obdigore]

How can a game which follows a similar model to its predecessor be "short term"? Especially when said predecessor lasted a solid 7 years and is still going?

I don't understand this want to 'defeat wow' either. I quit playing wow, I don't care about wow. I want GW2 to be a good experience for me. I don't care what other MMOs are doing (except SW:TOR because I will go back when they put in more space missions), but I don't get why people are like 'it will defeat wow'... who cares?

[Granyala]

How can a game which follows a similar model to its predecessor be "short term"? Especially when said predecessor lasted a solid 7 years and is still going?

I think the longevity of GW2 entirely depends on the speed of content patch releases.

[Morrowind]

How can a game which follows a similar model to its predecessor be "short term"? Especially when said predecessor lasted a solid 7 years and is still going?

What do you mean by lasted?

People played GW1 for 7 years perhaps but it wasn't in the spotlight nor was it thought of as a definitive mmo experience for that length of time. Games last forever as there will always be someone playing it, however, this does not mean that the game is in a top position in it's market.

[mag07]

I think the longevity of GW2 entirely depends on the speed of content patch releases.

And GW1 has a great, long history of frequent content updates, with xpacs spaced less then a year a part, with free content in between. On a more humorous note - at least for those of us coming from WoW, anything that's less then 6 months will be considered frequent

[Granyala]

And GW1 has a great, long history of frequent content updates, with xpacs spaced less then a year a part, with free content in between. On a more humorous note - at least for those of us coming from WoW, anything that's less then 6 months will be considered frequent

Agreed. My friend played GW1 and I remember he was telling me about the 3rd addon and I was just like "Wait they have another addon already??"

[Deleted]

What do you mean by lasted?

People played GW1 for 7 years perhaps but it wasn't in the spotlight nor was it thought of as a definitive mmo experience for that length of time. Games last forever as there will always be someone playing it, however, this does not mean that the game is in a top position in it's market.

I am sorry .... Do u represent the whole population of Earth ?
All games must be a blant copy of EQ ?
Like movies or foods ?
All ppl must like the same things ?
So if i dont like ur kind of entertainment , it makes a me a bad person ?
Why did u play GW2 if u knew there are not raids ? ....

[Morrowind]

I am sorry .... Do u represent the whole population of Earth ?
All games must be a blant copy of EQ ?
Like movies or foods ?
All ppl must like the same things ?
Why did u play GW2 if u knew there are not raids ? ....

I never said I represent the whole population of Earth.

I never claimed anything to be a copy of EQ.

Has nothing to do with this thread.

I never claimed that all people must like the same things.

I explained everything regaring this in my OP.

[Reucht]

The problem with this for GW2 is you are playing the game from the start, meaning by the time you hit 80 you would have experienced the bulk of things there is to do. The rest is done for cosmetic items.

I actually read this thread front to back, what a huge waste of time. Morrowind, I don't know what you expect, all the so-called "flaws" were known before the beta. They didn't magically disappear, but yet you wanna make sure the rest of us know GW2 doesn't have the classic wow-like PvE? Or you wanna make sure we know we might get bored by the time we hit 80? I can assure you, Morrowind, we're on top of things. More on top than you, that's for sure.

PvE is player vs enemy (or computer) and GW2 has plenty of this. Then over to your awesome sentence, quoted above: "I wanna grind 80 lvls and then start the game" or "I wanna start the game", I know which one I'd choose. Being max lvl in WoW is idling in Ironforge/Orgrimmar while you're waiting for your PUG to start/disband or your queue for LFR/Dungeon to pop. Please don't make it look like it's anything more. Also, "The rest is done for cosmetic items", big fucking deal, there's a huge crowd for this kind of thing: e.g. Transmo in WoW, guess what GW2 has it too.

You might get bored if you ravage the content like you do in WoW, hurry the fuck up to the level cap, grind your ass off in certain dungeons (not all, obviously, you're not running dungeons where you don't get any interesting loot, duh /sarcasm), join a guild where you get frustrated cuz of long-term members getting loot before you do and slackers getting loot before you do. Getting ready for the raid and then having it cancelled because that one tank/healer/essential class for boss X didn't show. Running LFR/PUGs where you get pissed off at others because they couldn't handle boss X with a minimum of communication. Been there, done that. In before "get a decent guild/group" etc.

And then you have GW2, which has no weekly demands, no fixed raid times, basically all very casual (unlike WoW), where you can run around with your friends all scaled to the same level, kill big-ass dragons and other bosses whilst exploring the world. Have a few hours to spare? Go to one of the crazy hard-ass dungeons and kill some stuff there. For the rest, you can jump in and out with whatever time you have. You'll never feel alone in GW2 since DE's attract flies like a big old pile of shit. You all look the same till lvl 30, but then the versatility of this game starts to show, be it in character progression: 10 skills you can choose out of 30 weapon skills, 40 slot skills and 70 trait points or in gear progression: this supposedly picks up after lvl 30.



So, in conclusion Morrowind, GW2 didn't meet your expectations (after what? 72 hours?), too bad, but you should have researched it a bit more before hyping it up in your own mind. It has a lot of good stuff and it ditched a lot of other game's bad stuff, they made the bold move to not copy WoW like so many others have tried and many more have failed, but they created a game which they wanted to play and which I want to play.

To each their own, I wish you happy adventuring in WoW, but I'm sure you'll be back after you're burnt out on content expansion M.

[Deleted]

Let's be realistic here, please.

If you came into GW2 as an ex/current WoW player hoping for a game that's similar and will feed your addiction/need for full-on endgame content then one of the following most likely happened:

a) You were sucked in by the hype. Newsflash, hype isn't an accurate representation of what a game will bring; just look at D3 for an example of that.
b) You bought it because it's an MMO and expected it to be like WoW without actually doing research into what the game is.

To answer your question OP, yes. Players who bought into GW2 expecting end-game raid content similar to that of WoW's will be disappointed, but this is their fault for not thinking about what they were buying into.
Just because a game is branded a 'MMO' does not mean that is has to automatically follow in WoW's footsteps of offering endgame content. If you look at other "big" names in the MMO genre, you will see that they can differ massively. Runescape isn't about reaching the endgame and then enjoying the content, it's about enjoying the content AS you reach endgame, and afterwards offering limited content once you reach it. LoL and DotA are both MMO's in their own right but simply form a different sub-genre.

I agree that GW2 is supposed to be a RPG, like WoW, but this does not mean that it needs to follow WoW's footsteps. In fact, and I actually hate to do this, but the South Park episode puts it into perspective nicely: "The game is meant to be about completing quests." This was the original design of the MMORPG, yet just because Blizzard has implemented an 'Endgame is the game' feel to RPGs doesn't mean that others need follow.

From my first impressions (and thus, what follows is my opinion, you can either share this or not, don't hate on me just for sharing my opinion) ANet didn't design GW2 to be some massive grind to max level and then have plenty of end-game waiting for you. They designed it to be a fun experience, and as such they have given you the opportunity to try each and every profession in an endgame setting (albeit a PvP one) before you have to do anything grind-like, so that you know that the profession you're playing is the right one for you; and the fact you know what 80 is like can serve as an incentive. "OMG, X profession is so cool at 80, I want to keep playing so I can play it properly rather than just in PvP". The fact that there isn't anything raid-like in terms of PvE is irrelevant here.

Before you call me a GW2 Fanboy or a WoW-hater or anything like that, I'm currently a level 7 Necro on GW2 (taking my time with it and enjoying it, plus have job to contend with), and am eagerly awaiting MoP as a hardcore HC raider. I enjoy both games immensely, but I'm also smart enough to realise that they differ in design in quite a few ways.

TL;DR, quite simply put, if you came into GW2 expecting it to be a 'better version of WoW' because you're tired and frustrated of WoW, you're in for a lot of disappointment. If you came into GW2 expecting end-game PvE content straight off the bat, you're in for disappointment. While I realise I'm posting this on a WoW-based forum, WoW is not the be-all and end-all of MMORPGs. Comparing every new MMORPG that gets released to WoW because you want it to be like WoW, but better, will only make you think you wasted your money.

[Morrowind]

I actually read this thread front to back, what a huge waste of time. Morrowind, I don't know what you expect, all the so-called "flaws" were known before the beta. They didn't magically disappear, but yet you wanna make sure the rest of us know GW2 doesn't have the classic wow-like PvE? Or you wanna make sure we know we might get bored by the time we hit 80? I can assure you, Morrowind, we're on top of things. More on top than you, that's for sure.

PvE is player vs enemy (or computer) and GW2 has plenty of this. Then over to your awesome sentence, quoted above: "I wanna grind 80 lvls and then start the game" or "I wanna start the game", I know which one I'd choose. Being max lvl in WoW is idling in Ironforge/Orgrimmar while you're waiting for your PUG to start/disband or your queue for LFR/Dungeon to pop. Please don't make it look like it's anything more. Also, "The rest is done for cosmetic items", big fucking deal, there's a huge crowd for this kind of thing: e.g. Transmo in WoW, guess what GW2 has it too.

You might get bored if you ravage the content like you do in WoW, hurry the fuck up to the level cap, grind your ass off in certain dungeons (not all, obviously, you're not running dungeons where you don't get any interesting loot, duh /sarcasm), join a guild where you get frustrated cuz of long-term members getting loot before you do and slackers getting loot before you do. Getting ready for the raid and then having it cancelled because that one tank/healer/essential class for boss X didn't show. Running LFR/PUGs where you get pissed off at others because they couldn't handle boss X with a minimum of communication. Been there, done that. In before "get a decent guild/group" etc.

And then you have GW2, which has no weekly demands, no fixed raid times, basically all very casual (unlike WoW), where you can run around with your friends all scaled to the same level, kill big-ass dragons and other bosses whilst exploring the world. Have a few hours to spare? Go to one of the crazy hard-ass dungeons and kill some stuff there. For the rest, you can jump in and out with whatever time you have. You'll never feel alone in GW2 since DE's attract flies like a big old pile of shit. You all look the same till lvl 30, but then the versatility of this game starts to show, be it in character progression: 10 skills you can choose out of 30 weapon skills, 40 slot skills and 70 trait points or in gear progression: this supposedly picks up after lvl 30.



So, in conclusion Morrowind, GW2 didn't meet your expectations (after what? 72 hours?), too bad, but you should have researched it a bit more before hyping it up in your own mind. It has a lot of good stuff and it ditched a lot of other game's bad stuff, they made the bold move to not copy WoW like so many others have tried and many more have failed, but they created a game which they wanted to play and which I want to play.

To each their own, I wish you happy adventuring in WoW, but I'm sure you'll be back after you're burnt out on content expansion M.

Firstly, I won't be back to GW2 as it doesn't have long term PvE content, which we know.

Secondly, the whole point of this thread was adressing the problem hype has in distorting the "mission" of a game.

Thirdly, GW2 is great for casuals (like any rpg you may find on a console) yet this thread was meant for raiders who thought it was going to be another WoW or on par with WoW in those terms.

DYnamic events are not raids (in the convential sense) neither are Explorable dungeons. DEs can feel quite "zergy"and are done for a whole 80 levels with little reward that would satisfy a raider. Explorable dungeons are akin to HCs yet without the incentive other than initial fun (which doesn't last long for anything).

I'm sorry that you did not have a good experience raiding in WoW but obviously this thread wasn't meant for you as you are not the sort of player who enjoys raids in the first place.

[Reucht]

Firstly, I won't be back to GW2 as it doesn't have long term PvE content, which we know.

Which we all knew before we bought the game. Except you, ofcourse.

Secondly, the whole point of this thread was adressing the problem hype has in distorting the "mission" of a game.

The hype was "this is gonna be a good game!" and that's all the mission there is to it. The rest was done by the community.

Thirdly, GW2 is great for casuals (like any rpg you may find on a console) yet this thread was meant for raiders who thought it was going to be another WoW or on par with WoW in those terms.

You're wrong, dead wrong. It isn't casuals vs raiders (god, you're still living in 2006 when this was a discussion), in WoW you can be a casual raider, but it mostly comes down to waiting for a queue or waiting for a group. If you're hardcore (like I was at one point), you clear the entire progress raid in 2,5 hours on a wednesday and the rest of the week the guild is dead or are lvling alts. Until Blizzard releases a new content patch, then you're online 24/7 just to keep your edge. And this happens? Twice a year?

DYnamic events are not raids (in the convential sense) neither are Explorable dungeons. DEs can feel quite "zergy"and are done for a whole 80 levels with little reward that would satisfy a raider. Explorable dungeons are akin to HCs yet without the incentive other than initial fun (which doesn't last long for anything).

You know what? WoW made lvling a chore, but in the old days, that was the game. Doing the quests, slowly making your character a hero, exploring, talking to other people, that's an MMO. EQ/WoW added raids to keep people busy after they "completed" the game. Nowadays, people want that raid so bad that they play a bad game for 80 levels.

I'm sorry that you did not have a good experience raiding in WoW but obviously this thread wasn't meant for you as you are not the sort of player who enjoys raids in the first place.

I do enjoy raids, a lot even. But I don't like the hassle that comes with a raid, if you're hardcore, you have to show up on mandatory days/times, raid hours and hours on end to a point that fun is long gone. And if you're casual, like I wanna do now, you wait and wait and wait and ... wait. Because you want a good group and a fast group. In GW2, a raid gets formed on the spot. The Shatterer appears and everyone runs to it and starts killing him, ye there is no deep strategical element, but fucking whooptidoo, I don't care, I got rid of all the bad stuff too.

I have evolved from WoW to GW2, I guess you haven't played WoW enough to be tired of all the bullshit, but after 7,5 years I am.

[Grable]

Firstly, I won't be back to GW2 as it doesn't have long term PvE content, which we know.

Secondly, the whole point of this thread was adressing the problem hype has in distorting the "mission" of a game.

Thirdly, GW2 is great for casuals (like any rpg you may find on a console) yet this thread was meant for raiders who thought it was going to be another WoW or on par with WoW in those terms.

DYnamic events are not raids (in the convential sense) neither are Explorable dungeons. DEs can feel quite "zergy"and are done for a whole 80 levels with little reward that would satisfy a raider. Explorable dungeons are akin to HCs yet without the incentive other than initial fun (which doesn't last long for anything).

I'm sorry that you did not have a good experience raiding in WoW but obviously this thread wasn't meant for you as you are not the sort of player who enjoys raids in the first place.

If this thread is about people who bought GW2 and are disappointed that GW2 doesn't have WoW-like endgame AKA raids, then I have only one thing to say:

Next time find out what the game offers and what it doesn't before you buy it.


Also, well said Serene.

[Skizo]

In terms of the PvE side, I was just hoping for some interesting diversity in questing, like another MMO from 2012, The Secret World.
Unfortunately, this game isn't up to date in terms of interesting quest content. I suppose I should have looked up the coverage where they said that they were back to the 20 year standbys of "kill, loot"