Frost Mage PVP - Mastery or Haste?

[Chat]

So whats the best to go for now? Haste? Mastery? No one on my server has bothered to answer. ha.

---------- Post added 2012-08-29 at 07:47 AM ----------

<_< 103 views and no reply.

[Pyrion]

I'd go for mastery for the burst in PvP, but I'm not 100% sure it's the best way.

[Deleted]

what ive read about frost mages mastery is the best burst when you can stack it high but you still need some crit to make sure your shatters have a decent chance of critting, so i guess crit til like 20-25% for the 3x crit chance on frozen targets and full mastery after that.

[cpa]

So whats the best to go for now? Haste? Mastery? No one on my server has bothered to answer. ha.

---------- Post added 2012-08-29 at 07:47 AM ----------

<_< 103 views and no reply.

Haste for all three specs. The new shatter mecha nic devalues crit too much to make it worth stacking. Mastery is good, but haste is better.

[Chat]

So.. theres still a debate between mastery and haste.. q_q

[teebo]

I dont remember frost ever wanting haste. It was reforge haste to crit and mastery.

[Rinoa]

Personally I'd go for crit cap, then mastery. If you go have a look at how much damage Frost Bomb + Frost Bolt + Ice Lance into a Brain Freezed Frostfire Bolt you'll understand why.

Edit: After a few hours of dueling and comparing haste to crit/mastery the results were quite astounding. With a crit/mastery build the amount of burst I was able to put out was rather immense. With the PvP Spellpower trinket popped I was doing around 80% of someones health in a Frost Bomb + Frostbolt + Ice Lance shatter. That's stupid.

[cpa]

Mastery will still give you the big numbers, haste will decrease the cast time of frostbomb, frost jaw or rof, poly, frostbolt....as well as decrease your gcd. If you are an experienced mage as far as setting up max burst, you will do more with haste. You can always throw on mage armor for an extra 10% damage if the situation you are in calls for it.

[Imnick]

I dont remember frost ever wanting haste. It was reforge haste to crit and mastery.

Frost has always wanted Haste and basically still does, especially as FFB is bugged and not interacting properly with Mastery.

[halfawake]

Frost has wanted haste.... in pve. In pvp burst is still king, thus mastery being superior.

[Imnick]

I expect Mastery will be a no-brainer stat once it actually works with Brain Freeze while it is supposed to but until then it virtually only boosts the power of Ice Lance which, while still very good, might mean haste is more competitive.

[cpa]

The only reason mastery was as good as it was in cata is due to the ability to stack up mastery pve trinkets.

[Deleted]

haste has its benefits, fasters CC, faster casts, but burst is more important, int > mastery > haste as frost, thats just the way i feel good with it, most of ur dmg comes from ice lance and FFB procs, so u will end up casting 3 - 4 frostbolts in 1 minute or so.

---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 10:01 AM ----------

The only reason mastery was as good as it was in cata is due to the ability to stack up mastery pve trinkets.

bis pve trinkets have 0 mastery on them.

[Imnick]

Well they fixed FFB faster than I expected anyway :V

[cpa]

haste has its benefits, fasters CC, faster casts, but burst is more important, int > mastery > haste as frost, thats just the way i feel good with it, most of ur dmg comes from ice lance and FFB procs, so u will end up casting 3 - 4 frostbolts in 1 minute or so.

---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 10:01 AM ----------



bis pve trinkets have 0 mastery on them.

BIS PVE trinkets for mages use in pvp all had large mastery procs or on use mastery on them. Moonwell, Foul Gift, the 1900 mastery proc trinket from a few tiers ago. These were what top end mages used, and these trinkets are what made a human mage a whole different class from any other mage.

If burst is more important, please do the math on how much mastery it's going to take to equal the 15% damage buff that casting three frostbolts will get you. Now imagine getting three two second casts off and think about why arcane was so bad in Cata.

The difference between Cata and MoP is going to be that all of the mastery stacking mages who won matches without casting sheep and spamming ice lance are not going to be 2k+ anymore. Without those absurd pve trinkets, mages wouldn't have stacked mastery in this expac tbh.
Mastery won't be horrible, but haste will win as better in this xpac.

[Swizzle]

I dont remember frost ever wanting haste. It was reforge haste to crit and mastery.

Frost has used Haste as its primary stat in TBC and WotLK. Mastery took over at the tail end of Cata, and even then it depended on comp and playstyle.

Anyway, for 5.0.4 and onward, you don't want more than 15% Crit from gear, then keep Mastery and Haste roughly on par with each other. If you're the primary CC for your team, then you will want more Haste. If you're the go to damage on your comp (running with a Rogue or Warlock), then you'll want some more Mastery.

[saltshaker]

Haste is really good with the frost bomb spell because it reduces the cd of it, but mastery is still best because of the burst. mastery->haste->crit

[Deleted]

BIS PVE trinkets for mages use in pvp all had large mastery procs or on use mastery on them. Moonwell, Foul Gift, the 1900 mastery proc trinket from a few tiers ago. These were what top end mages used, and these trinkets are what made a human mage a whole different class from any other mage.

If burst is more important, please do the math on how much mastery it's going to take to equal the 15% damage buff that casting three frostbolts will get you. Now imagine getting three two second casts off and think about why arcane was so bad in Cata.

The difference between Cata and MoP is going to be that all of the mastery stacking mages who won matches without casting sheep and spamming ice lance are not going to be 2k+ anymore. Without those absurd pve trinkets, mages wouldn't have stacked mastery in this expac tbh.
Mastery won't be horrible, but haste will win as better in this xpac.

how many mages do u see to use chalice or or any other trinket over HC cunning or pvp trinket with sp on use? probly none. none that is playing @ high rating anyway. theres no good trinket with mastery on it, 1900 mastery is WAY less dmg than cata pvp trinkets for example that proc 2.4k sp, so there is no point on using those 365 trinkets or w/e over pvp trinket, or cunning. so your doing it wrong. mage shouldnt have stacked mastery but still they did, and they were your night mare in arena. its a matter of playstyle here, u choose mastery if u like big numbers, u choose haste if u want to able to CC faster, other than that to make haste whort a dime, u need to stack so much just to get an extra lance when your target sits in deep freeze, otherwise there is no point of stacking haste over mastery. why do a 50k shatter in 2 seconds when i can do 70k shatter in 2.5 seconds.

[cpa]

Cunning was used primarily by fire mages. Human mages ran almost exclusively pve mastery proc and on use trinkets this entire xpac if they had access. I really don't even know what you are talking about. The title of this thread indicates frost pvp. Using cunning costed as many matches as it would win as soon as it blew your target out of cc.

I suppose the extra gcd's and the shorter cd on frost bomb as well as the detonation (which is one of our hardest hitting spells) doesn't make haste worth a dime either. How about armor switching and summoning a water ele? Water ele's are going to be targets this xpac, more than they have been.

Deep Freeze was primarily used as cc in most competitive arena brackets for most of this expac. I would say that trying to get an extra lance into a deep is a good reason for a duel but probably one of the least important benefits in competitive pvp.

I would review my math if I thought that the cata badge was better than a proc mastery trinket. But hey, I suppose I was doing it wrong and you are just numerically challenged. Look at the bright side though...now you know that numbers, grammar and punctuation are not your thing. You could always try tic tac toe.

[Deleted]

your pretty much wrong, cunning was used by any kind of spec as a mage, the most class that benefits from it is spriests or warlocks tho, it has nothing to do with fire or frost, i was using Insignia of the corrupted mind as fire over cunning just because that haste is nasty. but this has nothing to do with fire, i was just pointing out that mastery comes in second after intelect/sp, therefore u had 0 trinkets with mastery that could compete with Cunning/cata with sp on use, in terms of dmg. breaking cc with cunning was lame sometimes but have a extra source of dmg(10 to 30k dmg sometimes even more) is welcomed. and for example, i was playing frost MLS and we could blow something up in a single fear/sheep or hex, DF was mostly used to peel or to get some pressure. hardly used it for CCing when u got all that extra CC from ur partners.