[Guardian] Attack rotations.

[Kujako]

So there seems to be an issue with Guardian attack rotations where I find myself waiting for a half second every now and then. While not a major deal, it produces an odd attack rhythm that I find annoying. Its like missing a beat every sixth attack or so.

The question then is, what is everyone else using for their attacks in both single target and aoe situations, and how does it "feel"?

I've been trying a "Mangle,Lacerate,Faerie Fire,Lacerate" rotation for single target. But the cool-downs are off for it. The second Lacerate is still on cool-down when it comes up. I dont like mixing in an aoe attack due to CC breaking etc (not an issue now, but its a bad habit to get into), but we dont really have any other attacks but Maul. "Mangle,Lacerate,Faerie Fire,Maul,Lacerate" may be worth a try.

[Deleted]

Boring as hell , dont like the new tanking rotation at all tbh

[Kujako]

Boring as hell , dont like the new tanking rotation at all tbh

Can't say I disagree, but its what we have so we may as well try to find a workable use for it.

[exochaft]

Probably going to get a variety of answers, but I know that "delay" you're talking about. I'm starting to wonder if something is inadvertently invoking a longer GCD than the other abilities (amongst other quirky things that I'm finding in Live and not the beta). However, I think FF will fit into this spot... or you can wait that fraction of a second.

My single-target (besides when free Mangles proc) revolves around just alternating an ability with Lacerate. The simple version is Mangle -> Lacerate -> Thrash/FF -> Lacerate -> Mangle, etc. etc. Obviously just throw in the free Mangles when they pop up and try to get back into the rhythm. Tonight I'll see if I can identify this "dead spot" in the rotation, since it only happens with single-target for me.

The aoe I still prefer just to Swipe -> Thrash -> Swipe -> something else unless I really need the rage, then Mangle whenever it's up and just go back to AoE abilities. Nothing special really, I had some issues with AoE threat and low vengeance if I started with Thrash -> Swipe, so I reverted to starting with Swipe... of course warlock pets with taunt on are really effective aggro pets now, so that might be it.

[Kujako]

Probably going to get a variety of answers, but I know that "delay" you're talking about. I'm starting to wonder if something is inadvertently invoking a longer GCD than the other abilities (amongst other quirky things that I'm finding in Live and not the beta). However, I think FF will fit into this spot... or you can wait that fraction of a second.

I think it may have to do with haste, but I cant be sure. In the attack rotation you listed (same as mine really) the three second Lacerate cool down is not up when you use it the second time. Lacerate (1.5s global), Faerie Fire (1.5s global), Lacerate still on cool down for .25 to .50 seconds. Its like the global cool down is being reduced by haste, but not the cool down on Lacerate.

[exochaft]

I think it may have to do with haste, but I cant be sure. In the attack rotation you listed (same as mine really) the three second Lacerate cool down is not up when you use it the second time. Lacerate (1.5s global), Faerie Fire (1.5s global), Lacerate still on cool down for .25 to .50 seconds. Its like the global cool down is being reduced by haste, but not the cool down on Lacerate.

I'm starting to wonder if FF acts like a spell, and our haste values are reducing the global GCD on it. I need to time it better, but it "appears" to invoke a faster GCD.

[Kujako]

I'm starting to wonder if FF acts like a spell, and our haste values are reducing the global GCD on it. I need to time it better, but it "appears" to invoke a faster GCD.

Could be, it does feel like going "Mangle,Lacerate,Swipe,Lacerate" behaves better.

[danlathegreat]

You should be weaving thrash in where possible. It applies Weakened Blows, and can reset mangle too.

[rated]

I'm using lacerate/mangle/thrash/FF for single target and I'm still finding I have a half second delay where I can't do anything. I'm even using swipe on single target just for something to do lol

[Kujako]

You should be weaving thrash in where possible. It applies Weakened Blows, and can reset mangle too.

And breaks CC. Not a habit I want to get into. So while I do use it, it is not part of my normal rotation. I look for an opening when it can be used effectively and then break my rotation to use it.

[rated]

What needs to be CC'd exactly ? Unless I've got lucky with some super awesome pugs I've found nothing needing CC and everything relatively retardedly easy.

[exochaft]

I'm using lacerate/mangle/thrash/FF for single target and I'm still finding I have a half second delay where I can't do anything. I'm even using swipe on single target just for something to do lol

That's why I'm leaning towards FF's GCD being reduced by haste. With 5.0, FF is a universal spell for druids, instead of one being for caster form and another being for Bear/Cat Form. Plus, the delay doesn't really happen on AoE, which generally doesn't have us using FF.

I think it happens when we don't proc a free Mangle, since Mangle has a 6-second cooldown. As bears, we're typically used to just a standard 1.5 second GCD, so if we do FF between Mangles w/o a Mangle proc, there's going to be a "delay". For example, suppose our haste had FF's GCD to 1.3 seconds... if we Mangle and use FF any time between Mangle coming off cooldown naturally, there will be a 0.2 second delay in our rotation. I suppose technically it wouldn't have to revolve around Mangle since other spells have cooldowns longer than 1.5 seconds.

It's similar to using HT + DoC as Feral on the beta, as HT invokes a spell-based GCD.

[Kujako]

What needs to be CC'd exactly ? Unless I've got lucky with some super awesome pugs I've found nothing needing CC and everything relatively retardedly easy.

Currently? Not much. In MoP? Lots of things I expect.

[rated]

@exochaft

yeah that's weird. I'm not noticing it during AoE roations just single target like you said.

@kujako

dont tank near cc'd mobs ? lol

[Kujako]

That's why I'm leaning towards FF's GCD being reduced by haste. With 5.0, FF is a universal spell for druids, instead of one being for caster form and another being for Bear/Cat Form. Plus, the delay doesn't really happen on AoE, which generally doesn't have us using FF.

I think it happens when we don't proc a free Mangle, since Mangle has a 6-second cooldown. As bears, we're typically used to just a standard 1.5 second GCD, so if we do FF between Mangles w/o a Mangle proc, there's going to be a "delay". For example, suppose our haste had FF's GCD to 1.3 seconds... if we Mangle and use FF any time between Mangle coming off cooldown naturally, there will be a 0.2 second delay in our rotation.

It's similar to using HT + DoC as Feral on the beta, as HT invokes a spell-based GCD.

Could be, that would mean that when my trinket (the Hungerer) procs is when it gets the most noticeable. Will have to look for that.

[Arielle]

FFF's GCD is reduced by Haste, like other "spells".

[Kujako]

FFF's GCD is reduced by Haste, like other "spells".

Confirmed. It's when my trinket procs that I feel like I stumbled in my attack rotation. Its not that noticeable most of the time, but the +1532 haste makes it feel like I missed a beat.

[Finbezz]

Thrash is part of the single-target rotation and your rotation will feel pretty awkward without it.

[Deleted]

I've noticed this as well. I'm BiS heroic geared and have reforged out of Haste. I'm Agi gemmed and enchanted, so my Crit chance is high compared to those who go for Stam.

And yet I've noticed it as well. The 1 second where everything is on CD, nothing procs Mangle and well, then you just wait. I was thinking, that we might see the CD removed from Lacerate, since Lacerate is the "way to go" right after Mangle and with Maul being rather useless due to its rage cost. On the other hand, that would probably make Lacerate too OP in terms of it proccing Mangle.

As it is right now, it feels weird and wrong.

[Kujako]

Thrash is part of the single-target rotation and your rotation will feel pretty awkward without it.

Then we disagree with what the term "single target" means.

That sounded snarky, which was not my intent. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying that I want a TRUE single target rotation. Which for the most part I have with mangle, lacerate, faerie fire, lacerate. Its just that the normal four beats per rotation every now and then has an extra beat in it due to cool down wonkyness that's throwing the rhythm off. I'm also not saying I wont be using thrash for single targets, but I want to pick when I use it and not have it be part of my normal rotation as I think that's a bad habit to get into in the long run due to crowd control etc.