1. #1081
    Gah posted a whole huge post, but it got eaten

    ANyway heres the short version - Why does Mastery > Crit go from 28 -> 23%, and am I at that gear point (Aggramar, EU, Mspyropanda)

  2. #1082
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citrique View Post
    The recurring issue with LB is that trinkets which proc from periodic effects proc less reliably / often with it. This was a noteable issue with LotC. Barring LB being a drastic DPS increase over NT I personally wouldn't change even on patchwerk if I was running Breath / Cha-ye's / both.

    (yes, I know RPPM trinkets are technically supposed to have the same "PPM" regardless of dot tick frequency, but in practice I haven't found LB as reliable)
    Notable with LotC doesn't mean anything with regards to RPPM trinkets. LotC was a flat percent chance per tick. Faster is going to proc it sooner after the ICD. RPPM is variable based on the last possible event trigger without ICDs. That said, I intend to compare uptimes against past logs after the patch launches. I don't believe there will be a drop in uptimes, though.

    LB's damage increase should be noticable over NT. In addition, the tick interval is long enough that you shouldn't waste BF procs between GCDs, which would also be a fair DPS increase.

  3. #1083
    You're not the only one! It's pretty awesome and appears to line up well with the spreadsheet (which is also awesome) at least in terms of NT ticks.

  4. #1084
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    Notable with LotC doesn't mean anything with regards to RPPM trinkets. LotC was a flat percent chance per tick. Faster is going to proc it sooner after the ICD. RPPM is variable based on the last possible event trigger without ICDs. That said, I intend to compare uptimes against past logs after the patch launches. I don't believe there will be a drop in uptimes, though.

    LB's damage increase should be noticable over NT. In addition, the tick interval is long enough that you shouldn't waste BF procs between GCDs, which would also be a fair DPS increase.
    So, after re-acquainting myself with this awesome forum.....unless they change something in the coming days before 5.3, we are going to inclined to change from NT to LB and continue to stack haste like pigs as before?

  5. #1085
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyropanda View Post
    Gah posted a whole huge post, but it got eaten

    ANyway heres the short version - Why does Mastery > Crit go from 28 -> 23%, and am I at that gear point (Aggramar, EU, Mspyropanda)
    From my understanding it is because the +int procs from ToT RPPM trinkets.

    As we get closer to the crit cap we start to lose the benefit we get from +int procs as it also increases our crit rating. If we were capped on our crit raid buffed it would essentially be wasted stats after the trinkets proc.

    Dumping the points into mastery makes our "Nukes" hit/crit harder aswell as out water elemental's damage.

  6. #1086
    Also 4 set makes u trigger fof more often, resulting in increased mastery value on those procs

    I think the use of LB will actually be quite a dps inc, since u should almost never miss out on bf procs as it's the case atm. I'm not sure how many u waste atm, maybe 5-10/fight so + 2-2.5mill if u take a 6min fight that's 7k app(2.5mill/360)

    Got a few overall questions I need to have confirmed for 5.3 - if anyone would be able to help out!

    1. Is there a "cap" on haste to aim for according to LB ticks and overall haste benefit beyond 50% haste? Or we just keep aiming haste > mastery, and ofc 23% crit or so (increasing with int gains from gear).
    2. Which trinkets will be our 5.3 BIS trinkets(think I asked prev without a deff answer)? Woos/Breath or Cha'Ye/Breath?

    Hope u can help out
    Last edited by Hasufer; 2013-05-20 at 06:27 PM.

  7. #1087
    Quote Originally Posted by Hasufer View Post
    1. Is there a "cap" on haste to aim for according to LB ticks and overall haste benefit beyond 50% haste? Or we just keep aiming haste > mastery, and ofc 23% crit or so (increasing with int gains from gear).
    I believe you can "ignore" the caps for LB and just aim for the haste>mastery, with crit around 23% - Though if you are curious there are breakpoints at 12043 and 19347 with meta proc or hero and another around 18960 without the meta proc/hero

  8. #1088
    Quote Originally Posted by Hasufer View Post
    1. Is there a "cap" on haste to aim for according to LB ticks and overall haste benefit beyond 50% haste? Or we just keep aiming haste > mastery, and ofc 23% crit or so (increasing with int gains from gear).
    2. Which trinkets will be our 5.3 BIS trinkets(think I asked prev without a deff answer)? Woos/Breath or Cha'Ye/Breath?

    Hope u can help out
    I believe the haste cap is ~53% from what Kuni and I discussed so that means continuing to stack haste to get frostbolt to a 1sec cast.

  9. #1089
    Aight thanks for those "caps" and many thanks for the reply's both of ya, appreciated!

    Any elaboration on what be the BIS trinkets anyone (maybe I'm just too lazy to pick it up from an old topic/threadpage)?

  10. #1090
    Quote Originally Posted by Hasufer View Post
    Aight thanks for those "caps" and many thanks for the reply's both of ya, appreciated!

    Any elaboration on what be the BIS trinkets anyone (maybe I'm just too lazy to pick it up from an old topic/threadpage)?
    I don't have any experience with Cha-Ye but with amount of crit already in this tier (I'm having a hard time reforging OUT of it to get to ~23% crit) that it would create problems. I'm 2 pieces short of normal BiS and reforging is an issue so I run Woosh and BoH. Between the 2 proccing separately I'm consistently shatter capped. Granted, Cha-Ye is a static 7.3k int for the duration of the proc, I much prefer using my AT with Woosh (if used within the last 6 seconds, I've noticed it re-proccing after AT at 1 stack and rebuilding to 10. Multi-dot fights, it's glorious.

    The safest answer I can give is that it will take testing, reforging and regemming to test Cha-Ye against Woosh. I wish I had Cha-Ye so I could test it myself lol.

  11. #1091
    yer okay, fits my mindset quite good, also breath has a 20sec proc which I would prefer over the 10sec (tho Cha'Ye often procs close to eachother)
    Think ill stick with woos/breath once I get breath, it gotta happen soon!!! 3 month and we have seen 1 of em in raids which went to our sp, grrrr.

    Hit and haste would pretty much always pwn as frosties, and we can gain more mastery/haste from reforging, instead of crit (which comes anyways with item improve from vp and gear in general)
    Ty for charing ya knowledge

    Btw I imagine this will be a tiny buff for us as well (patch notes):
    The following summoned pets/totems will now chain cast their spells with no delay between casts, allowing them to cast their spells more frequently in the same amount of time.
    Mage: Mirror Image, Water Elemental (again mastery making this a bit better for us)

  12. #1092
    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    I believe you can "ignore" the caps for LB and just aim for the haste>mastery, with crit around 23% - Though if you are curious there are breakpoints at 12043 and 19347 with meta proc or hero and another around 18960 without the meta proc/hero
    Is that 23% crit with or without arcane intelligence? I presume you mean 23% with arcane intelligence, i.e. 18% without?

  13. #1093

  14. #1094
    Briefly running LB in LFR, it was notably better on Lei Shen and was actually my top damaging spell. Buffed flamestrike was also fairly good, making it now worth the cast time. They should have made flamestrike's cooldown affected by haste IMO.

  15. #1095
    Any noticeable difference in procs, Citrique?

  16. #1096
    Not particularly, felt about the same. LB is definitely not great for 2+ targets though, the explosion damage is still really dismal.

  17. #1097
    Lol, kuni.

  18. #1098
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    The amount of brain freeze procs feels about the same. I did notice getting double procs a bit more. Its really just a slow ticking NT now with the explosion damage being so abysmal.

    I'm definitely going to be using it for single target just because the 1 sec gcd and easy refresh is nice.
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  19. #1099
    Quote Originally Posted by citrique View Post
    Not particularly, felt about the same. LB is definitely not great for 2+ targets though, the explosion damage is still really dismal.
    The Flamestrike & Living bomb buffs will definitely help on Lei Shen with mostly single target but occasionally fast dieing adds. It is a fight I have felt slightly weak on in my kills.

  20. #1100
    Any changes to frost AOE rotation after the AOE buffs?

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